generational conflict between y and boomers...your thoughts,

[Felix34]

I happen to feel the same way about Boomers and Generation Jones. I may stereotype and I apologize (obviously I am not talking about everyone) but history speaks for itself.

Their first priority is about maintaining their lifestyles rather than the future.

For example, my parents just spent 18,000 dollars on a new driveway, yet go on and on about how they "don't know if they're going to be able to pay the bills" and that "I need to take out loans, apply for grants and scholarships, and get a job" to pay for college...

Now I have no problem paying for my own expenses, I rather like the idea since I've never really had so much responsibility ever given to me. I also like the idea of working hard for your own dreams, it's more meaningful that way. My main problem with this...is that I don't have any money and the prospect of obtaining any money looks grim as no one is hiring. I have literally no experience...I worked at Dunkin Donuts for a year in high school. There is no way I am going to get a job (unless my brother gets me a position at the Arby's he works at) and it's not really fair to put all of this pressure on me without any solution simply because you're too concerned with appearing to be "normal." Aka having a house in the suburbs, with HD tv, and all the works.

For the record, YES I am generation Y, I was born in 88. Generation Y has a problem with Boomers/Generation Jones, but for different reasons than Xers have a problem with them. I'm not on the cusp, I'm smack dab in the middle of Generation Y.

Other things that bother me about a lot of the people in this generation:

They also have a lack of connection to reality and always have, but were able to hide it when they were younger because the older generations were out of touch (due to lack of understanding new, massive, and intimidating technologies they weren't used to.) There's also NO curiosity to learn more, they are content in their ignorance. (I'm not saying this is a bad thing, sometimes ignorance is bliss and bliss is best.)

Not to mention there is something condescending about them, have you ever listened to them talk about religion or politics? I've spent countless, painful hours listening to these people talk about these things...they don't know what they're talking about, yet anytime I offered an opinion they would scoff and say 'You're young and dumb." None of them have been to college, have studied social issues, history, science, or math, yet they all feel the need to lecture on how "stupid" I am and that "I'll learn that they were right". For some reason they think being old=smart. I believe that is what their parents taught them, to respect wiser and more experienced people. I completely agree with this idea....except, baby boomers are not wise or experienced. They spent their entire lives in what 2 jobs?? Working their way up and sustaining the same salary for comfort. My grandfather owned a business and studied that trade since he was 16 years old. I had a lot of reasons to respect his opinion, but not many to respect my parent's opinions.

Like I said they're out of touch with reality. Take a look at the people they voted for: Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan (Twice) Clinton (twice) Bush (twice). When they find something comfortable they just continue to keep it, even if it harms the people around them and them directly. Take a look at the people their parents voted for: Eisenhower (built an entire highway system), JFK and LBJ (literally brought a nation out of poverty and gave minorities and women freedom), Richard Nixon (Sure he was corrupt, but managed to get us out of Vietnam and open relations with China.) They voted for people who actually got things done, what the heck did Ronald Reagan do? He watched the USSR fall (which was already falling and really had nothing to do with him), fund inane programs such as Just say no.

One thing I do like about them: They're more affectionate than their parents.

I also don't think we're really seen a backlash yet from my generation, I'm still waiting to do things in the world. I know my brother and cousin (Yers) feel the same way. There are plenty of people in my generation that are pissed about the state of the world right now, we just have an inability to act at the moment due to the fact that we're still waiting to take our place in the world.

I guess these are pretty stereotypical, like I said it's only based on a handful of people I've met. There are plenty of brillaint, talented, knowledgeable, boomers.

[robfromraleigh]

Felix,


By Generation Jones, are you referring to the Boomer generation? I assume you are, and I would say you have a healthy amount of contempt for their attitudes. But, at the risk of making you angry, I would like to pose one thing to you: Their memory of "starting out" is so long ago, it is faded. And they had a lot of tail-winds starting out. When they purchased their first homes, housing and inflation were skyrocketing. Those purchasing their first homes today will feel the string of deflation for years to come. Granted, interest rates and low now (versus the upper teens in the 1970's), but that does not help much when you can't find descent work.

I believe a lot of the frustration you feel is due to the fact that "starting out" is very difficult. You are right in that you certainly aren't being helped much, and that makes it even harder. And it also does not help when you see the older generations support things like:
--High (6-digit) salaries for professors that make college very expensive
--High (6-digit) salaries for clergy that drain all church resources making missions difficult to impossible to fund
--Parents remodeling their homes every few years while you struggle to put food on your own table.
--Those on defined-benefit pensions that will make more in retirement doing nothing but sitting on their butt than you will make working 2,000 hours over the next year, knowing full well you will never have the same retirement options. (yet these same folks rail against "welfare")

"Starting out" is very hard and the Boomers of today have largely forgotten that. Yet it is an essential part of life and, like it or not, we have to play the hand we are dealt with (because it is better than the alternative). But trust me, 10 years from now your plight will certainly be different. I can't say exactly what that might be because it depends on chaotic events that happen in your life and those in your close circle around you. I think John would support me in saying that your station in life is not sustainable over 5-7 years, well, unless you resign yourself to it. As long as you keep trying and remember that you have to take risks in order to position yourself for success in your career, you will start to see success. Then, and only then, will your voice complaining about things like I listed above will be heard by the older crowd.

There is a human tendency to want to see a list of credentials before accepting one's ideas. However, maybe this does not hold up so well in a crisis era--whether you agree with him or not, Obama was elected with very short history to draw upon. Hitler was also listened to with very little history to draw upon. I am NOT comparing the two, but merely pointing out that the "culture of acceptance" promoted by the prophet archetype reaches its culmination in the crisis period when folks suddenly follow people (frequently ones far off from center) who lack much public history/credentials (good or bad). It may be exactly this that leads to culmination of the crisis itself (i.e. an intense war), so before poo-pooing the idea of "proving your credentials", know that it is this defense mechanism against radical ideas that prevents wars in more normal times (i.e. the other three turnings).

Good luck "starting out" and may your journey be an exciting, fulfilling one!

[thomasglee]

Felix,


By Generation Jones, are you referring to the Boomer generation? I assume you are, and I would say you have a healthy amount of contempt for their attitudes. But, at the risk of making you angry, I would like to pose one thing to you: Their memory of "starting out" is so long ago, it is faded. And they had a lot of tail-winds starting out. When they purchased their first homes, housing and inflation were skyrocketing. Those purchasing their first homes today will feel the string of deflation for years to come. Granted, interest rates and low now (versus the upper teens in the 1970's), but that does not help much when you can't find descent work.

I believe a lot of the frustration you feel is due to the fact that "starting out" is very difficult. You are right in that you certainly aren't being helped much, and that makes it even harder. And it also does not help when you see the older generations support things like:
--High (6-digit) salaries for professors that make college very expensive
--High (6-digit) salaries for clergy that drain all church resources making missions difficult to impossible to fund
--Parents remodeling their homes every few years while you struggle to put food on your own table.
--Those on defined-benefit pensions that will make more in retirement doing nothing but sitting on their butt than you will make working 2,000 hours over the next year, knowing full well you will never have the same retirement options. (yet these same folks rail against "welfare")

"Starting out" is very hard and the Boomers of today have largely forgotten that. Yet it is an essential part of life and, like it or not, we have to play the hand we are dealt with (because it is better than the alternative). But trust me, 10 years from now your plight will certainly be different. I can't say exactly what that might be because it depends on chaotic events that happen in your life and those in your close circle around you. I think John would support me in saying that your station in life is not sustainable over 5-7 years, well, unless you resign yourself to it. As long as you keep trying and remember that you have to take risks in order to position yourself for success in your career, you will start to see success. Then, and only then, will your voice complaining about things like I listed above will be heard by the older crowd.

There is a human tendency to want to see a list of credentials before accepting one's ideas. However, maybe this does not hold up so well in a crisis era--whether you agree with him or not, Obama was elected with very short history to draw upon. Hitler was also listened to with very little history to draw upon. I am NOT comparing the two, but merely pointing out that the "culture of acceptance" promoted by the prophet archetype reaches its culmination in the crisis period when folks suddenly follow people (frequently ones far off from center) who lack much public history/credentials (good or bad). It may be exactly this that leads to culmination of the crisis itself (i.e. an intense war), so before poo-pooing the idea of "proving your credentials", know that it is this defense mechanism against radical ideas that prevents wars in more normal times (i.e. the other three turnings).

Good luck "starting out" and may your journey be an exciting, fulfilling one!

I was going to reply to him several days ago, but surmised from his contempt that he was too angry and confused to try and rationalize with. The one thing I really wanted to point out to him was that his view of our political history (for example, his "idea" that Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of the Soviet Union as they were on a downhill trend already) is what he learned from the very people he holds in contempt. He took his history lessons from Boomers that hated Reagan and therefore, had a skewed view of his contribution to our nation, yet he turns around and holds the same views. He comes across as being a very confused and angry at the world (except not angry at HIS world) young man.

[VinceP1974]

I was going to reply to him several days ago, but surmised from his contempt that he was too angry and confused to try and rationalize with. The one thing I really wanted to point out to him was that his view of our political history (for example, his "idea" that Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of the Soviet Union as they were on a downhill trend already) is what he learned from the very people he holds in contempt. He took his history lessons from Boomers that hated Reagan and therefore, had a skewed view of his contribution to our nation, yet he turns around and holds the same views. He comes across as being a very confused and angry at the world (except not angry at HIS world) young man.

I dont mean to pick on Felix.. and I hope he continues to contribute. but in all honesty, I got the same vibe from him that you did.

He's utterly incoherent yet convinced of his right-ness.

This is a direct result of the way he was educated, acculturated.. whatever the fancy word is. He has disdain for the ideas of the American revolution, yet takes everything that America built for itself on those values, for granted, and thinks that nothing could happen that would result in this country facing an economic cataclysm

[ridgel]

Felix is right, baby boomers are materialist idiots that grew up when the country was on top of the world and left it broke and dismantled. But don't worry, the last laugh is that there's no way to pay the pensions or stock market returns that the boomers think they're due. So they'll be around long enough to see it crumble.

As far as your situation, if you can't get scholarships for college, then enlist. At least you have good odds of seeing the world, learning something, getting some benefits, and being forever respected as a veteran when you get out. Plus, it will probably piss off your parents to no end. Maybe your mom will start to think of something more important than the next granite counter top when you've got your life on the line - or maybe not, some boomers are beyond redemption.

[VinceP1974]

Felix is right, baby boomers are materialist idiots that grew up when the country was on top of the world and left it broke and dismantled. But don't worry, the last laugh is that there's no way to pay the pensions or stock market returns that the boomers think they're due. So they'll be around long enough to see it crumble.

I too take sick satisfaction for knowing that the most spoiled and destructive generation in all of mankind will find their most insecure time at the end of their lives.

[DisIllusionist]

If I recall correctly, S & H in the 4th Turning said that the Nomads (GenX) end up the poorest in old age not the Prophets (Boomers).

[thomasglee]

If I recall correctly, S & H in the 4th Turning said that the Nomads (GenX) end up the poorest in old age not the Prophets (Boomers).

I haven't read the book, but it makes sense on the surface. The Boomers are making sure the government takes care of them and the Gen-Xers are too caught up in the NOW to care about the future. Once they do start to care, it will be too late.

[xakzen]

...
I haven't read the book, but it makes sense on the surface. The Boomers are making sure the government takes care of them and the Gen-Xers are too caught up in the NOW to care about the future. Once they do start to care, it will be too late.

You really should read this book if you are interested in generational theories. It's an excellent read. Actually in the book Generations by S&H, they explain that the pragmatic characteristic of the Nomad Archtype allowed the Lost Generation (the last Nomads from the Great Power Saeculum) to continually vote against their own interests in favor of their kids future. Therefore rather than being only interesting in the present, that generation was willing to sacrifice their own prosperity to provide a future for the next several generations.

I suspect that our own GenX will very soon have to make the same sacrifices for our kids given the level of unfunded mandates. I don't know anyone in my generation that has ever expected to collect SS.

[thomasglee]

...
I haven't read the book, but it makes sense on the surface. The Boomers are making sure the government takes care of them and the Gen-Xers are too caught up in the NOW to care about the future. Once they do start to care, it will be too late.

You really should read this book if you are interested in generational theories. It's an excellent read. Actually in the book Generations by S&H, they explain that the pragmatic characteristic of the Nomad Archtype allowed the Lost Generation (the last Nomads from the Great Power Saeculum) to continually vote against their own interests in favor of their kids future. Therefore rather than being only interesting in the present, that generation was willing to sacrifice their own prosperity to provide a future for the next several generations.

I suspect that our own GenX will very soon have to make the same sacrifices for our kids given the level of unfunded mandates. I don't know anyone in my generation that has ever expected to collect SS.

I'll get it and read it! I love to read and am getting ready to place an order with Amazon for several books. I'm old-fashioned in the sense I like to hold a book so Kindle doesn't interest me! lol

I agree and tend to think that the Gen-Xers will do something (get us in a global war?) to bail out our kids (I guess I'm a Gen-Xer by definition), but how do you think it will transpire? I see most Gen-Xers supporting issues they *think* will be good for their kids when in reality, it will not (due to the fact they'll have to pay for it later in life once they become the tax payer).