Who's to blame -- Generation-Xers or Boomers?

[ainsleyclare]

I wasn't thinking about discrimination when I wrote my comments, although I see in re-reading then how you could get the impression that I was. What I'm really talking about is labels- specifically, the label that gen-Xers are nilhistic, self-destructive slackers. Certainly there are people in my generation that fit that description- there probably are in every generation. But to label the whole generation that way, then try to explain our collective behavior and make predictions based on those labels...just doesn't seem very intellectally rigorous to me. Especially when the labels have never, in my opinion, been a good fit for my generation.
Based on your comment about the Lost generation, I looked up information on that generation. I ran across a website that describes the lost generation, my generation, and other Nomad generations in a way I accept a lot better- as a group that is reviled in early adulthood, but ends up having to deal with the Crisis later in adulthood, and try to protect their children from the worst of it. I only looked at the Nomad generations, but I do see the similarities, and I like the approach of describing a generation throughout it's life-cycle. This is the web-site: http://www.fourthturning.com/my_html/bo ... story.html

[John]

> Of course everything will fail. It has to.

> I see it as a challenge. Pay attention to what's going on, don't
> count on anyone else to save your ass, and make the best of
> whatever situation you find yourself in.

> I'm not losing any sleep, and I'd be willing to bet that most Xers
> aren't either. We've always expected our lives to suck, and we're
> used to dealing with it without freaking out. That's why you need
> us, John, whether you like it or not.
> http://generationaldynamics.com/forum/v ... 1503#p1503

I've never said we [Boomers] don't need Gen-Xers. In fact, I've said
the opposite several times.

But you've mis-identified the problem. Whether Boomers need Gen-Xers
is completely beside the point.

Your problem is that YOU need Gen-Xers. That is, Gen-Xers need
Gen-Xers, and a lot of Gen-Xers are pretty nasty people. Long after
I'm dead and gone, and you won't have Boomers to kick around any
more, you'll still have Gen-Xers screwing you.

Sincerely,

John

[John]

Dear Ainsley,

> Based on your comment about the Lost generation, I looked up
> information on that generation. I ran across a website that
> describes the lost generation, my generation, and other Nomad
> generations in a way I accept a lot better- as a group that is
> reviled in early adulthood, but ends up having to deal with the
> Crisis later in adulthood, and try to protect their children from
> the worst of it. I only looked at the Nomad generations, but I do
> see the similarities, and I like the approach of describing a
> generation throughout it's life-cycle. This is the web-site:
> http://www.fourthturning.com/my_html/bo ... story.html

The reason that you liked what they said better than what I said is
because Neil Howe and Bill Strauss are much nicer people than I am.

Their two books, "Generations" and "The Fourth Turning," are the
foundation works of generational theory, on which Generational
Dynamics is based. You ought to read both books - you'll get a lot
out of them, and "Generations" in particular will answer many
questions about yourself that you have.

Sincerely,

John

[John]

From a web site reader:

> For about the past year I have been paying special attention to my
> fellow Xers. I have learned why I have so few Xer friends and the
> ones I do have are relationships built slowly over time. I have
> watched over the last 15 years as Xers got caught up in yuppidom
> and became very arrogant and conniving in their pursuit of
> happiness. The good news is I also have learned that you can't
> beat a good xer. I hope there will be more as we age. You have
> helped me to become better and I thank you.

Sounds like good advice.

John

[Witchiepoo]

Your problem is that YOU need Gen-Xers. That is, Gen-Xers need
Gen-Xers, and a lot of Gen-Xers are pretty nasty people. Long after
I'm dead and gone, and you won't have Boomers to kick around any
more, you'll still have Gen-Xers screwing you.

Sincerely,

John

I don't see needing other Gen Xers as a problem at all. Most of us have a mutual respect for each other, and we get along just fine.

[John]

> I don't see needing other Gen Xers as a problem at all. Most of us
> have a mutual respect for each other, and we get along just fine.

You started this discussion thread by saying, "That's why you need
us, John, whether you like it or not." I didn't (and don't) know
what prompted this remark, unless you're reacting to criticisms I've
had of Gen-Xers who are nihilistic, destructive and self-destructive.
That's a completely different statement from "We don't need
Gen-Xers." Even if Gen-Xers are nihilistic, destructive and
self-destructive, we still need them. We have no one else.

I don't feel that I need to apologize for criticizing Gen-Xers, or
making these kinds of generalizations. For several years, I rarely
criticized anyone but Boomers on this web site -- for the dot-com
bubble, and for being unable to lead or govern, creating governmental
paralysis.

I only started criticizing Gen-Xers when I saw what disasters they
were causing.

First were the leftist nutjobs in moveon.org and dailykos.org. These
people, along with the NY Times, NBC news, and other such
organizations, were committed to the defeat and humiliation of
America in Iraq. If these people had been listened to, we would have
an utter disaster on our hands. These people, who are overwhelmingly
Gen-Xers, are much more dangerous to the country and to the Obama
presidency than anyone on the right is.

Then there's the worldwide financial crisis that we're experiencing.
Although Boomers were greedy and stupid, the massive fraud that
created the crisis was engineered by Gen-Xers.

You say that you and other Gen-Xers have mutual respect for one
another, and get along just fine.

I assume you're talking about carefully chosen friends, people you've
learned to know and trust, not random people off the street.

I have respect for many Gen-Xers as well, and get along with them
just fine. In fact, in the years that I've known you online, I've
always had respect for you, and I don't know what I've said to make
you think that I was characterizing you personally.

Many years ago, I had a manager who told me, "It's important that you
understand and acknowledge your weaknesses. If you pretend that you
don't have weaknesses, then you'll just make mistakes. But if you
know your weaknesses, then you can compensate for them."

I would make an analogous remark. It's important for you to
understand and acknowledge the behaviors and attitudes of your
generation [even when those attitudes are nihilistic, destructive,
and self-destructive]. If you pretend that your generation doesn't
have those behaviors and attitudes, then you'll fall into the same
trap and you'll make mistakes. But if you know and acknowledge those
behaviors and attitudes, then you can avoid the destructive ones and
build on the positive ones.

I would add that I've personally seen incredibly destructive and
self-destructive behavior among Gen-Xers I've known, including one
certain person in that other forum.

I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings or something like that, but this
web site and this forum isn't about pretending. I criticize myself,
my generation and my country when I feel it's appropriate to do so,
and I feel that my openness in doing that gives me leave to criticize
other people, other generations, and other countries when I feel it's
appropriate.

The bottom line is what it's always been. We're all facing an almost
unbelievable disaster, and the purpose of this web site is to help
people prepare, if they're willing to accept advice [from a Boomer]
and act on it. This is not a web site for pretending that everything
is going to be OK, if we all just love each other.

Sincerely,

John

[Witchiepoo]

You say that you and other Gen-Xers have mutual respect for one
another, and get along just fine.

I assume you're talking about carefully chosen friends, people you've
learned to know and trust, not random people off the street.

No, I'm talking about everyone.

I have respect for many Gen-Xers as well, and get along with them
just fine. In fact, in the years that I've known you online, I've
always had respect for you, and I don't know what I've said to make
you think that I was characterizing you personally.

I didn't! Relax!

[Matt1989]

First were the leftist nutjobs in moveon.org and dailykos.org. These
people, along with the NY Times, NBC news, and other such
organizations, were committed to the defeat and humiliation of
America in Iraq. If these people had been listened to, we would have
an utter disaster on our hands. These people, who are overwhelmingly
Gen-Xers, are much more dangerous to the country and to the Obama
presidency than anyone on the right is.

We take no sides in any political battles

[John]

Dear Matt,

I didn't take sides in the political battles - Obama vs Clinton,
Obama vs McCain.

** What to expect from a Barack Obama presidency
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 04#e081104

But I'm not going to hesitate to criticize and condemn a group of
people that are actively working for the defeat and humiliation of
America, just because that group of people happens to belong to a
political party. I'm criticizing that group of people, not the
political party.

Similarly, I don't take sides on which is "better," Islam or
Christianity. But I'm not going to hesitate to criticize and condemn
a group of terrorists who want to destroy Western civilization,
including America, just because that group happens to belong to one
religion.

I am, after all, pro-American.

Sincerely,

John

[Matt1989]

Dear Matt,

I didn't take sides in the political battles - Obama vs Clinton,
Obama vs McCain.

** What to expect from a Barack Obama presidency
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 04#e081104

But I'm not going to hesitate to criticize and condemn a group of
people that are actively working for the defeat and humiliation of
America, just because that group of people happens to belong to a
political party. I'm criticizing that group of people, not the
political party.

Right, it's not that big of a deal to me (we all have our own opinions on these matters), but it seems inconsistent with the ideal of staying out of political battles. From my interpretation, it seems that you are, in essence, characterizing the "base," or the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, as well as the antiwar movement and its sympathizers, as "un-American." Don't you think this turns some people away?