Just 3 remarks, let's change a little bit the point of view:
1-
It is not very interesting to blah-blah on if the computer is going to have more human intelligence than humans or not, the REAL question is: at some point (described as the Singularity) will have the train gone too far, so there is no other alternative that a FULL REPLACEMENT of humans by robots.
Based on the exponential power of computers (and the stupidity of humans in groups), I think 2030 is quite a good approximation for this inflexion point.
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2- What are the ONLY goals of the humanity? -a- Power (on other humans, but also on the earth) -b- Sex
On my point of view everything else is bullshit.
I read somewhere that you can already buy sex-robots, for sure they are going to be more "efficient" than ANY human person, and they are not going to protest. If you have better sex with a machine why should you have a family? By the way this opens the road (or the highways) to extremist and hyper-religious people who say that sex is bad... and back to the Middle Age (another solution) with hudge extermination.
On a philosophical point of view saying sex is "bad" it is giving to the sex a lot of power and it is giving a full poliical power to people who want to eradicate it... Again only sex and power...
Power: as I wrote before, I'm convinced that the first super-computer will be used to make you choose the politician that the lobbys want.
It is NOT for today but for very soon (10 years?)and in some countries statistics on what to say and not to say if you want to be elected are VERY advanced).
Why is "power" so important: because for people who look for power, humanity has NO meaning, only the goal has, so suicide of the humanity has strictly NO IMPORTANCE it if gives more power.
Look at high-religious people and the so called "extremists", for example, the ONLY things they want is another way to obtain more power, NEVER to build to better humanity...
Then where do you need super-computer? (aside from Science, but nobody cares anymore about Science)
- for manipulating the elections (so you think you elect someone of your choice, but as a matter of fact you never had the choice)
- for education (this is a VERY good entry point for producing human jellyfishes)
- for health management (I mean for killing humans as in "Green sun" and "electronicly" controlling your brain)
- for fund management (never forget that financial markets are NOT markets. If the are only controlled by computers, there is no more price on what has no real value, it becomes the Chaos: "share" has NO VALUE at all, it is only a piece of paper for having the right to play poker, but computer don't play poker, or they'll do it against humans)
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3- a remark: the civilization we have built looks ONLY for more efficiency, and there is ONLY ONE WAY TO HAVE A BETTER EFFICIENCY: this is to replace human by robots, there is NO OTHER WAY.
This mean to be more efficient WE HAVE TO ERADICATE THE HUMANS FROM THE EARTH, no other way... Think a little bit about it!
I do not know it that arrives by 2030, but we will have the POWER of doing so within the next 20 years....
As I wrote before, and John did also write that the best thing to do is to use "Brute force" to solve the problems, so we do not even need to have computers more intelligent as humans, we need to have more efficient machines to eradicate ANY WORK done by humans, this could begin starting from 2020. and when I say ANY work, I MEAN ANY work, even the definition of "work", this could need 100 years but it is feasible.
Will that arrive? I do not know the future. I think it will because
-a- human in group is really stupid
-b- our civilization is based on marketing, so the only idea we have is to sell something new to others and, for our ego, this is so nice to have more machines on "our orders".. (at the beginning, the the computers will replace the men who do marketing... and...
Remarks??
Information and Evidence of the Singularity
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
I think you are basically correct, at least about humans...
humans = apes
apes are about power, sex, and violence
therefore...it is natural that a common thread of human history is the development of better and better weapons...and their subsequent use...and this also explains the persistence and expansion of pornography...
now, as to "sexbots": my opinion is that we will develop "helmets" that, when we put them on, will allow us to experience sexual encounters (albeit "virtual", but they seem as real as ...reality)...and those encounters will be with whomever we imagine, and we will be whoever we imagine....so rather, than sex with robots, we will have "imaginary" sex...
humans = apes
apes are about power, sex, and violence
therefore...it is natural that a common thread of human history is the development of better and better weapons...and their subsequent use...and this also explains the persistence and expansion of pornography...
now, as to "sexbots": my opinion is that we will develop "helmets" that, when we put them on, will allow us to experience sexual encounters (albeit "virtual", but they seem as real as ...reality)...and those encounters will be with whomever we imagine, and we will be whoever we imagine....so rather, than sex with robots, we will have "imaginary" sex...
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
Regarding the coming "singularity" and global events, they could play out quite differently.
The following video indicates that shortly, there could be a major game changer.
This could/will change our perception of and relation to the larger reality, and provide a way for an improvement of orders of magnitude in our mental abilities through the removal of the blocks inserted in our genetic make up. The beginning of the video is background material and builds to some conclusions toward the end.
http://www.lloydpye.com/breakingnews_richplanet.htm
The following video indicates that shortly, there could be a major game changer.
This could/will change our perception of and relation to the larger reality, and provide a way for an improvement of orders of magnitude in our mental abilities through the removal of the blocks inserted in our genetic make up. The beginning of the video is background material and builds to some conclusions toward the end.
http://www.lloydpye.com/breakingnews_richplanet.htm
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
Yes, but in which way?gerald wrote:Regarding the coming "singularity" and global events, they could play out quite differently.
For me the exponential curve in consumption and in technical progess has an end, this is my logic and there is a very curious point in time (2030) where many things converge:
- the time, with the actual definition of intelligence, where the computer will become more intelligent tant human (this is an exponential extrapolation of the intelligence of the computer from 1950 to now, now we were in 2006 (time when I read an article about that) more or less at the level of the intelligence of the earthworm)
- the "need of war" of the humanity (If I aggregate the different analysis I read and the Generational Theory, and the fact that nobody wants war TODAY, and the fact that UN is still operational, and the fact that there STILL enough money in the system to keep the world quiet for a while, there is NO RISK of an important war within the next 10 years, but there could be a peak of risk between 2025-2035). For exemple let's take China, they just want more power in Asia (this mean a conflict with Japan AND India, not with the US), but nothing is going to change before the new government in 2012, and at that time they need at least 10 years to become a real physical danger.
- the Peak oil and the peak in ANY raw material between yet and 2035 (this is a real wall we are going to hit without doubt), The other wall is the inability of the world to produce a real money for exchange and the ones who believe that "Gold" is going to be one in the future are deadly wrong in their logic and suggest that the study the definition and history of "Money" (less and less gold in "money" until the point of no gold at all in the money, this is physical logarithm, and we could welle be at the asymptote point). I'm sorry I do not know documentation in english, as I read several langages, english is not my only reference.
- the inability of any government to govern, but it takes time to a system of corruption to die, and the governments will take money in the pension fund to survive(example:http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-A ... e-pensions), and there are money there (in the main countries like the US and Germany) for at least 10 years.
The trouble TODAY is the "Debt factor" that any goverment wants to ignore, and it could make the world VERY chaotic between yet and 2030
The trouble is that this guy has NO scientific approach.gerald wrote: http://www.lloydpye.com/breakingnews_richplanet.htm
The fact that this DNA is curious if NOT a proof of anything, the DNA of ANY old DNA is broken is very different ways.
And if you look at carefuly at the different "proofs" this guy gives, none other where analysed and criticized. this is NOT SERIOUS, sorry
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
burt :
You ask how will this play out? Time will tell. But, that is a very interesting and complex question, and I have a suspicion we don't even know who all the players are. Possible out comes,- economic collapse leading to anarchy or tyranny, and because of politics- global nuclear war, or planetary incineration via scalar weapons, or planetary enslavement via micro chipping and mind control, or a take off on the singularity- extermination of humans by robots. Or on a positive note, a quantum leap in human abilities by genetic improvement causing a corresponding improvement in society. ( side note, they, the ET's, may take the same position, regarding humanity, that the Europeans did regarding the waring primitives of Pupua New Guinea -- impose order -- this possibility could be inferred by the events in this link dealing with UFO's compromising US Nuclear Weapons -- http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS1669 ... RN20100915 Of course we could be nothing more then an interesting subject of study. Personally, I have a preference for the quantum leap out come, and so do others.
As to the work of Loyd Pye, I watch his work with some interest since I have an interest in the unusual.
It appears you to take the logical scientific approach to the ET topic, and this is the respected position . I like to think I use a similar approach regarding many topics as well. However for some topics such as the ET issue I take a different approach, which is similar to the one used in the legal profession, called "the preponderance of the evidence" And yes as with the ET subject, one must be careful not to be sucked into superstition, delusion and fraud, and yet be willing to adjust one's ideas when new information is presented.
Somethings can be called absolutely true, for example, 2+2=4, where as other things can confidently be considered untrue, for example, white unicorns living in cities on the bottom of the ocean. The ET topic falls some where between absolutely true and confidently untrue. The questing is where do we place the ET issue?
Apollo 14 Dr. Edgar Mitchell exposes ET cover Up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iNMPdbnkcw
As for Loyd Pye's credentials, in that he is self taught and not peer reviewed or is unscientific. -- Well, when you are self taught there is a positive, you have not learned what you should not question, the negative is that you may not know what is known. ( a Loyd Pye up date https://mail.google.com/mail/?hl=en&shv ... da4bc0ad42 ) Also, peer reviewed does not always mean correct. A recent example of this is the climate scandal.
Yes, one must not be taken in by foolishness. But, there are many examples of what is considered acceptable or approved that are in conflict with existing "artifacts" or observations. These are then simply dismissed, ignored or ridiculed, because they raise uncomfortable questions with those that "know" what should be. An example of this is the current disagreement between those in astronomy that believe that gravity is the primary force in the universe - the accepted mode of thinking - and those that believe it is the electric force . The electric force is 10 to the 39th power greater then gravity, and by comparison, it makes gravity almost unimportant. The gravity thinking astronomers are many times surprised and baffled by what they find in space. Where as, the electric universe group predict and explain what is and what will be discovered. http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... nterim.htm They have even conducted experiments that illustrate how new astronomical discoveries were created. And using the electric theory they also illustrate that the electric force is scalable from the atomic to intergalactic scale. The problem that astronomy has is that the gravity approach and most of the math and theories that go with it, would have to be discarded by the mainstream astronomers in order for them to accept the electric theory. Too many people have their lives, beliefs, careers and funding tied to the gravity approach, so to accept this change is unthinkable, even if it stares them in the face.
We live in interesting times.
.
You ask how will this play out? Time will tell. But, that is a very interesting and complex question, and I have a suspicion we don't even know who all the players are. Possible out comes,- economic collapse leading to anarchy or tyranny, and because of politics- global nuclear war, or planetary incineration via scalar weapons, or planetary enslavement via micro chipping and mind control, or a take off on the singularity- extermination of humans by robots. Or on a positive note, a quantum leap in human abilities by genetic improvement causing a corresponding improvement in society. ( side note, they, the ET's, may take the same position, regarding humanity, that the Europeans did regarding the waring primitives of Pupua New Guinea -- impose order -- this possibility could be inferred by the events in this link dealing with UFO's compromising US Nuclear Weapons -- http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS1669 ... RN20100915 Of course we could be nothing more then an interesting subject of study. Personally, I have a preference for the quantum leap out come, and so do others.
As to the work of Loyd Pye, I watch his work with some interest since I have an interest in the unusual.
It appears you to take the logical scientific approach to the ET topic, and this is the respected position . I like to think I use a similar approach regarding many topics as well. However for some topics such as the ET issue I take a different approach, which is similar to the one used in the legal profession, called "the preponderance of the evidence" And yes as with the ET subject, one must be careful not to be sucked into superstition, delusion and fraud, and yet be willing to adjust one's ideas when new information is presented.
Somethings can be called absolutely true, for example, 2+2=4, where as other things can confidently be considered untrue, for example, white unicorns living in cities on the bottom of the ocean. The ET topic falls some where between absolutely true and confidently untrue. The questing is where do we place the ET issue?
Apollo 14 Dr. Edgar Mitchell exposes ET cover Up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iNMPdbnkcw
As for Loyd Pye's credentials, in that he is self taught and not peer reviewed or is unscientific. -- Well, when you are self taught there is a positive, you have not learned what you should not question, the negative is that you may not know what is known. ( a Loyd Pye up date https://mail.google.com/mail/?hl=en&shv ... da4bc0ad42 ) Also, peer reviewed does not always mean correct. A recent example of this is the climate scandal.
Yes, one must not be taken in by foolishness. But, there are many examples of what is considered acceptable or approved that are in conflict with existing "artifacts" or observations. These are then simply dismissed, ignored or ridiculed, because they raise uncomfortable questions with those that "know" what should be. An example of this is the current disagreement between those in astronomy that believe that gravity is the primary force in the universe - the accepted mode of thinking - and those that believe it is the electric force . The electric force is 10 to the 39th power greater then gravity, and by comparison, it makes gravity almost unimportant. The gravity thinking astronomers are many times surprised and baffled by what they find in space. Where as, the electric universe group predict and explain what is and what will be discovered. http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... nterim.htm They have even conducted experiments that illustrate how new astronomical discoveries were created. And using the electric theory they also illustrate that the electric force is scalable from the atomic to intergalactic scale. The problem that astronomy has is that the gravity approach and most of the math and theories that go with it, would have to be discarded by the mainstream astronomers in order for them to accept the electric theory. Too many people have their lives, beliefs, careers and funding tied to the gravity approach, so to accept this change is unthinkable, even if it stares them in the face.
We live in interesting times.
.
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
Could you please be kind enough to make a short abstract on the book about the electrical model.
What I read is philosophical not scientific, they should use a lot of equation to be able to say what they say and at least give experimental proof of the difference between what they predict and what other team predict.
Their models are not clear for me, as you seem to know better this work than I do, may be you could give me a scientific abstract of their work.
I found blah-blah but nothing clear.
The scientific world is very open to new ideas but very far away from pure philosophy. Any idea is good if you can proove it as more efficient than old models.
Thank you for your help.
Regards
What I read is philosophical not scientific, they should use a lot of equation to be able to say what they say and at least give experimental proof of the difference between what they predict and what other team predict.
Their models are not clear for me, as you seem to know better this work than I do, may be you could give me a scientific abstract of their work.
I found blah-blah but nothing clear.
The scientific world is very open to new ideas but very far away from pure philosophy. Any idea is good if you can proove it as more efficient than old models.
Thank you for your help.
Regards
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
burt:
I am sorry that I am not able to comply with your request. However here is a link to their site http://www.thunderboltsproject.com/home.html I do not know if they have a link for your desired information, since their theories appear to be a work in progress, but having followed them for over two years they seem to be right on. And the ramifications of this could be very profound. If you contact them they may be able to help.
My current primary activities are involved in investment real estate, property management and maintenance. I spent some time a number of years ago as an industrial designer for a large electronics co. where I received an award for design and a few design patents. Also, I have a life long interest in scientific, historical, and artistic topics. Anomalies in artifacts and data I find especially intriguing.
I hope the above is of some help.
I am sorry that I am not able to comply with your request. However here is a link to their site http://www.thunderboltsproject.com/home.html I do not know if they have a link for your desired information, since their theories appear to be a work in progress, but having followed them for over two years they seem to be right on. And the ramifications of this could be very profound. If you contact them they may be able to help.
My current primary activities are involved in investment real estate, property management and maintenance. I spent some time a number of years ago as an industrial designer for a large electronics co. where I received an award for design and a few design patents. Also, I have a life long interest in scientific, historical, and artistic topics. Anomalies in artifacts and data I find especially intriguing.
I hope the above is of some help.
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
Thank you, very little information, but a lot of things to sell.gerald wrote:a link to their site http://www.thunderboltsproject.com/home.html
No visible scientific approach, and if they had one they could express it freely and for free.
So it sounds for me like a money machine, like scientology for example.
One of the main concept of our civilization is that knowledge is free for access and for discussion...
The time we'll become seller of knowledge or when knowledge will be kept out of discussion (as, I think, this should happen after the Singularity)... the end of the civilization will be very close.
Thank you for the ideas anyway.
Regards
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
burt:
Your comment is interesting, yes they are selling some things, but there are many free materials available, such as newsletters, reports, and videos. I receive weekly notices of free updates, and I have never, sent them money.
Your comment is interesting, yes they are selling some things, but there are many free materials available, such as newsletters, reports, and videos. I receive weekly notices of free updates, and I have never, sent them money.
Re: Information and Evidence of the Singularity
Yes, thank you.
I meant a description (with model and equations) of their theory on the "universe is electric".
The theory of the plasma is quite well known and they say they do not need the gravitation to express some unknown facts on the universe. They should give their model, so that it can be understood.
and, by the way, what does it have to do with the "Evidence of the Singularity?"
Aliens? Until someone shows me one...
I think that the probability of a DNA form of live outside of the earth is VERY high
but that the probability that these lifes make the same evolution as ours quite low,
and that they have the desire to look at the sky =low,
+ find the technology to move DNA structure toward us (+with conscienceness to communicate)= almost 0
and that we have only the slightiest chance to encounter one = 0 (never forget that he human civilization have VERY small duration, and during a civilization the consciencness to see and accept what's around is a very very little window (200 years at the maximum)
The Singularity will be build by humans, for the best or the worst of humanity. The trouble is that soon after the Singularity (let's say 2030), Robots will not need any more humans (let's say before the end of the century).
We are never certain of the future, and the energy needed by the robots could very well impossible to produce, but the Singularity is almost certain for me (we'll see...).
I meant a description (with model and equations) of their theory on the "universe is electric".
The theory of the plasma is quite well known and they say they do not need the gravitation to express some unknown facts on the universe. They should give their model, so that it can be understood.
and, by the way, what does it have to do with the "Evidence of the Singularity?"
Aliens? Until someone shows me one...
I think that the probability of a DNA form of live outside of the earth is VERY high
but that the probability that these lifes make the same evolution as ours quite low,
and that they have the desire to look at the sky =low,
+ find the technology to move DNA structure toward us (+with conscienceness to communicate)= almost 0
and that we have only the slightiest chance to encounter one = 0 (never forget that he human civilization have VERY small duration, and during a civilization the consciencness to see and accept what's around is a very very little window (200 years at the maximum)
The Singularity will be build by humans, for the best or the worst of humanity. The trouble is that soon after the Singularity (let's say 2030), Robots will not need any more humans (let's say before the end of the century).
We are never certain of the future, and the energy needed by the robots could very well impossible to produce, but the Singularity is almost certain for me (we'll see...).
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