Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

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Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:21 pm
John wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:16 pm
Tuesday December 13th, 2022.

I don't know if you caught this, higgy, but when cool. said" look up all the institutions and who leads them ," he's referring to Jews. Cool is a fanatic Orthodox Christian and a fanatic anti-semite.
He's also a fanatic Russian troll.
False accusations. I'm curious, and then we can leave it there, what is fanatical about me? That I believe that Jesus Christ is the God-Man? What is anti-semitic even mean? The ashkenazim aren't even semites, nor are the sephardim, and most "jews" don't even believe in God. Certainly the ones that run the show don't. The marketplace of ideas loves these accusations, Higgie, so what does that tell you about the "marketplace"? It loves money and lies, yes, indeed.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:24 pm
Higgenbotham wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:52 pm
John wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:16 pm
Tuesday December 13th, 2022.

I don't know if you caught this, higgy, but when cool. said" look up all the institutions and who leads them ," he's referring to Jews. Cool is a fanatic Orthodox Christian and a fanatic anti-semite.
He's also a fanatic Russian troll.

Basically, the Christian Identity talking points I'm referring to that Cool Breeze uses repeatedly are as follows:

1. The US government and US institutions have been taken over by Jews - hence, his frequent references to ZOG - the "Zionist Occupational Government".
2. Through this occupation by the Jews, the Jews are responsible for and have deliberately flooded the White ancestral homelands with inferior peoples for nefarious reasons.
3. Jewish controlled mass media and entertainment are brainwashing white people.

There is much more to it but those are the basic elements of Christian Identity and the same elements Cool Breeze hammers on over and over.
(1) is a fact, the only counter is arguing how maximally controlled, or minimally controlled, the numbers are. It's funny when it comes to that point.

(2) The global elite isn't all one group, or one ethnic group. You didn't ask so I didn't tell you more, nor do I need to since you aren't interested. Either way, your ignorance of it changes nothing.

(3) This is obvious to anyone paying attention. It's not just "white" people (whatever that means), it's a large percentage of ALL people.

By the way, ethnophyletism is a heresy, just wanted to let you know. Look it up, since I don't believe in it.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Higgenbotham wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:11 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:24 pm
Higgenbotham wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:52 pm



Basically, the Christian Identity talking points I'm referring to that Cool Breeze uses repeatedly are as follows:

1. The US government and US institutions have been taken over by Jews - hence, his frequent references to ZOG - the "Zionist Occupational Government".
2. Through this occupation by the Jews, the Jews are responsible for and have deliberately flooded the White ancestral homelands with inferior peoples for nefarious reasons.
3. Jewish controlled mass media and entertainment are brainwashing white people.

There is much more to it but those are the basic elements of Christian Identity and the same elements Cool Breeze hammers on over and over.
(1) is a fact, the only counter is arguing how maximally controlled, or minimally controlled, the numbers are. It's funny when it comes to that point.

(2) The global elite isn't all one group, or one ethnic group. You didn't ask so I didn't tell you more, nor do I need to since you aren't interested. Either way, your ignorance of it changes nothing.

(3) This is obvious to anyone paying attention. It's not just "white" people (whatever that means), it's a large percentage of ALL people.

By the way, ethnophyletism is a heresy, just wanted to let you know. Look it up, since I don't believe in it.
You can argue the details since your Christian Identity group creates and refines your Christian Identity talking points, which, of course, aren't mine. Obviously, you are targeting this site for a membership drive or some similar purpose, so you may emphasize certain points and certain aspects; I don't know your internal procedures. I would just say that targeting this site reeks of desperation. You can try to spin my lack of knowledge of your internal procedures and terms as ignorance but I doubt even few will be impressed, probably none.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Higgenbotham wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:29 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:21 pm
John wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:16 pm
Tuesday December 13th, 2022.

I don't know if you caught this, higgy, but when cool. said" look up all the institutions and who leads them ," he's referring to Jews. Cool is a fanatic Orthodox Christian and a fanatic anti-semite.
He's also a fanatic Russian troll.
False accusations. I'm curious, and then we can leave it there, what is fanatical about me? That I believe that Jesus Christ is the God-Man? What is anti-semitic even mean? The ashkenazim aren't even semites, nor are the sephardim, and most "jews" don't even believe in God. Certainly the ones that run the show don't. The marketplace of ideas loves these accusations, Higgie, so what does that tell you about the "marketplace"? It loves money and lies, yes, indeed.
What is fanatical about you? Hire a Jewish psychiatrist and he will tell you.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

FullMoon wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:34 pm
I should chime in and say I actually don't have a clue what this back and forth are about. But... I was surprised to bring up the pandemic and have CB not comment on it.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

John wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:21 pm
Wednesday, December 14, 2022

*** The Theology of Judaism

The following is from my original 2003
book on Generational Dynamics:

&&2 Judaism and the Spread of Christianity

Great ideas are born during awakenings,
and frequently they're spread (or
extinguished) during crisis wars. Now
we're going to look at another great
idea, born during an awakening, and
spread throughout the world for
millennia to come -- the ministry of
Jesus Christ and the spread of
Christianity.

It's impossible to understand Jesus
Christ without first understanding the
history of Judaism, as well as the
unique qualities of Jews that have
caused them to excel at whatever they
did -- the same qualities that have led
them to be the targets of attack by
other civilizations throughout the
centuries.

&&3 Judaism and Diaspora

The seminal crisis war that set the
pattern for Hebrew life for millennia to
come occurred somewhere around 1200 BC
(give or take a century), when Moses
liberated the Hebrew people from
Egyptian slavery by means of two
miracles: the crossing of the Red Sea
and survival in the desert. That
legendary story, told in the book of
Exodus in the Bible, has influenced
major world events ever since, to an
extent that must not be
underestimated. If that event hadn't
occurred, the Hebrews might have been
just another cult that eventually
disappeared, and Jerusalem might have
been just another ordinary city, rather
than a location that has been the
epicenter of one major historical event
after another.

Just as the heroic victory of Athens
over the Persians started a chain of
events that spread Greek culture
throughout the world, the heroic victory
of Moses and his people over the
Egyptians started a chain of events that
sustained Jews and Judaism to this day.

For, in the eyes of the Hebrews, this
event made them the "chosen people."
The two miracles caused them to renew
their covenant with God that Abraham had
made several centuries, and confirmed
their faith that God would protect them.

<insert Callout> The seminal crisis that
set the pattern for Hebrew life for
millennia was the crossing of the Red
Sea

In the austere days following the
exodus, Moses took steps to make sure
that "nothing like that must ever happen
again." He imposed the Ten Commandments
on the people, and then developed an
entire moral and religious code, a code
of political and social
organization[[*]]. The covenant with
God, made centuries earlier by Abraham,
presumably during an awakening period,
was now confirmed and established by a
crisis war.

[["He imposed the Ten Commandments on
the people, and then developed an entire
moral and religious code, a code of
political and social organization.":
Henri Daniel-Rops, <i>Daily Life in
Palestine at the Time of Christ</i>,
Phoenix Press, 2002, originally
published as <i>La Vie quotidienne en
Palestine au temps de J&eacute;sus</i>,
1962, pp. 31-32 |~ Henri Daniel-Rops]]

This time, the awakening that followed
went in a different direction, to the
worshippers of the Golden Calf. There
must have been many struggles and crisis
wars in the centuries that followed,
creating a historical fault line between
the followers of Moses' law and the
others - the heathens.

The view of Jews as the "chosen people"
was sealed several centuries later when
the Jews were conquered, exiled into
Babylon, and eventually allowed to
return to their homeland. This was once
again interpreted through Jewish law:
God had punished the chosen people for
their heathen practices, but then had
shown mercy by ending their exile[[*]].

[["God had punished the chosen people
for their heathen practices, but then
had shown mercy by ending their exile.":
Daniel-Rops, <i>op. cit.</i>, p. 32]]

The point of all of this history is the
set of ideas surrounding the word
"Diaspora." This word was originally
coined to describe groups of Jewish
people scattered around many countries,
but now the word "diaspora," without
capitalizing, is used to describe any
group of people of common religion or
ethnicity who are living in a community
not in the native country of their
religion or ethnicity.

But while diaspora is a general word,
it's the Jewish Diaspora that have
influenced world events the most. Why
is that? Mainly because Judaism has not
had a homeland for the overwhelming
portion of its history, and so it's
always been mainly a Diaspora religion.

No religion could possibly survive
without a base, a homeland, and
certainly not a religion whose adherents
have been exiled, moved or slaughtered
so many times in history. Yet, Judaism
<i>has</i> survived.

It survived because the Jewish law,
starting with the laws of Moses, was
designed so that God's chosen people
could survive as Diaspora.

As a "chosen people," the Jews could
live in any country and still maintain
their Jewish identity. Whether in
Jerusalem, Egypt, Italy or later in
other countries throughout the world,
the Jews had a collection of scriptures
and laws to live by, and they could
reestablish their identity simply by
gathering together in a group of two or
more and reading and discussing those
scriptures. This ability of Jewish
Diaspora to live anywhere, anytime, and
still maintain a Jewish identity,
without merging into the local society,
makes the Jews almost unique among major
civilizations of world history.

And that's the uniqueness that creates
the irrational xenophobia among other
people toward the Jews. Jewish people
had their own laws that took precedence
of the laws of the society around them.
(They viewed their laws as coming from a
"higher power," a concept that the
Christians later inherited, as did the
Muslims even later.) Even in earliest
times, Jewish communities were
insulated, and even had their own courts
of law. Some societies tolerated Jewish
disobedience of local laws better than
others, and the ones that didn't
tolerate it often responded by moving
the local Jewish community elsewhere,
passing the problem on to someone else.
This common solution to the local
"Jewish problem" meant that Jewish
history has almost always been of Jews
in other countries, rather than of Jews
in their own country.

<insert Callout right> As a Chosen
People, the Jews could live in any
country and still maintain their Jewish
identity

Historian Henri Daniel-Rops puts it as
follows:

>> Everything, then was related to the
Chosen People's certainty that they were
unique, different from all others and
superior to them[[*]]: everything, their
monotheistic faith, love of their
country, submission to moral laws,
desire to order their social and
political lives according to given
principles, and their feeling for the
highest kind of mystical experience. It
was, therefore, theology rather than
ethnology that determined their racial
characteristics.

[["Everything, then was related to the
Chosen People's certainty that they were
unique, different from all others and
superior to them": Henri Daniel-Rops,
<i>op. cit.</i>, pp. 32-33]]

It's important to understand that most
of this description -- a monotheistic
faith and submission to moral laws -- is
common to Christianity and Islam (and,
in fact, was inherited by them). The
distinctive difference is the form those
laws took resulting from the fact that
there was no Jewish homeland.

&&3 A Jewish Homeland

Following the Golden Age of Greece,
Alexander the Great had spread Greek
culture and Greek language throughout
the Mediterranean area, and into points
further east. Whether in Jerusalem or
elsewhere in the region, the ordinary
people spoke the local language, but the
educated elite spoke Greek, enjoyed
Greek art, and lived in expensive homes
with a Greek architecture. To use
modern day terminology, "Hellenization"
was associated with the rich, making it
a resented symbol of the class struggle
between the rich and the poor.

However, the Greeks were not the rulers
of this Greek-based culture. These were
the days of the Roman Empire, and the
Romans were the rulers. The Roman
rulers had to deal with large Jewish
populations of Jewish Diaspora in
Babylon and Rome, and mostly got along
well with them (with some painful
exceptions) because they granted Jews
the right to violate Roman law when it
conflicted with traditional Jewish law.

Nonetheless, Judea, the region
containing Jerusalem, was a special
problem. The Jews actually took control
of Judea in 142 BC, and it became a
Jewish homeland, an independent Jewish
state. In 63 BC, the Romans took over,
and there was no Jewish homeland again
until 1948.

&&3 King Herod

In 42 BC, Rome appointed Herod to rule
Judea. It's hard to imagine any ruler
with the ability to cause more
dissension and despair among the people.
Consider these factors:

(*) Herod was given the title "King
of the Jews" by the Romans.

(*) Herod was half-Jewish,
half-Arab, a combination that caused
many people to consider him impure,
and hold him in contempt.

(*) Herod ruled by cruelty and
terror, killing anyone who stood in
his way, even members of his own
family. (According to one anecdote,
when Herod had his own son executed,
a Roman master quipped, "I would
rather be Herod's pig than Herod's
son.")

(*) Herod enforced his terror by
using Roman forces, hated by the
people.

(*) Herod collected enormous amounts
in taxes, and used them to build
lush palaces in the hated Hellenized
style. One building that might have
helped with the people was his
rebuilding of the ancient Jewish
temple of Jerusalem. But he spoiled
it by adorning it prominently with
the hated golden Roman eagle.

Added to all that, there was a natural
disaster. In 31 BC, an earthquake
killed 30,000 people and leveled
thousands of buildings.

Herod ended his reign with especially
cruel forms of terror. When some
students tried to remove the golden
Roman eagle from the temple, some 40
students were burned alive. And the
Matthew 2 tells a (possibly exaggerated)
story of the "Massacre of the
Innocents": When Herod learned of a
ruler that the real "King of the Jews"
had been born, he ordered the murder of
all babies younger than 2 years. Christ
was born in 6 BC, and Herod died in 4
BC. The kingdom was divided among three
of his sons.

&&3 Aftermath of Herod: Jesus Christ and Christianity

The long reign of terror ended with
Herod's death. A crisis period is
always followed by a period of
austerity, where people who lived
through the crisis set rules for society
so that nothing like that will ever
happen again. For the Jews, this meant
that they would not provoke the Romans,
and for the Romans, this meant that any
minor revolt had to be put down quickly,
in order to avoid a larger revolt.
There was an extended period of peace
between 7 and 26 AD.

Jesus Christ was born too late to have
any personal memory of Herod's reign of
terror. There's always a "generation
gap" between the generation of children
born after a crisis period and the
people who lived through the crisis
period. That's why so may great new
ideas, like a new religion, almost
always occur 20-40 years after a crisis
period ends -- that's when there's a new
awakening.

As a member of that young rebellious
generation, we can well imagine that
Jesus Christ would have wanted to rebel
against not only the Romans but also
against the elders in his own community,
people who would be telling him to keep
quiet, lest he cause trouble for himself
and themselves.

Although this is a secular presentation
of Jesus' life using Generational
Dynamics, it may seem strange,
especially to Christians, to be talking
about these kinds of generational issues
with regard to Jesus, but doing so is no
disrespect to the Christian religion,
according to Professor Gene Chase of
Messiah College in Grantham, Penn.

"Of course Jesus was a man of His time,"
says Chase. "The very essence of the
doctrine of His incarnation is that He
is fully man, not just physically but
also socially, intellectually, and
emotionally. Jesus was a man of his
culture, and hence a man of the culture
of his time. He studied the Torah as a
boy; He enjoyed parties as a young man;
His parables are agrarian to connect
with the culture of His time; He taught
peripatetically. These are the sorts of
things that one would have expected of a
good Jewish boy who became a rabbi. In
fact, the Bible even says explicitly
that Jesus came at just the right time."

So, for Christian and non-Christian
readers alike, there is nothing
unreasonable to say that his rebellion
got many people angry. He got the
Romans angry because of his popularity.
He got many of the Jews angry because of
his attitude toward the Jewish
laws. (According to Matthew 5:17-20, he
said, "Do not think I have come to set
aside the Law and the prophets; I have
not come to set them aside, but to bring
them to perfection." So he "perfected"
the laws by ignoring the unnecessary
parts, including the dietary laws which
were considered extremely important.)
So he was a very charismatic
rabble-rouser, and he was considered
"dangerous" by both the Romans and the
Jews.

Why didn't Jesus flee? This is a
question that demands an answer from
both a secular and a Christian point of
view. Jesus knew that the Romans were
coming to arrest him and execute him.
Why didn't he flee the region (as
Mohammed did in a similar situation six
centuries later)?

The answer, according to Chase, is that
Jesus saw himself as the Messiah as
described in Isaiah 53:7, which was
written 600 years before Jesus: "He was
oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not
open his mouth; he was led like a lamb
to the slaughter, and as a sheep before
her shearers is silent, so he did not
open his mouth."

According to Chase, "Jesus saw himself
as the person described there, not as
molded by his time. Jesus knew Isaiah's
writings well and lived in the light of
them."

So Jesus was executed / crucified.

During the next 30 years, there were
many uprisings among the Jews, resulting
in many skirmishes with the Romans.
Such skirmishes are typical of the years
immediately preceding the next crisis.
The hostilities end quickly because, as
we've seen, the opinion makers are
people who lived through the last
crisis, and happily resort to
containment and compromise.

By 66 AD, the generation that had
personal memory of Herod's reign of
terror were gone, replaced as leaders by
the post-Herod generation, and the most
conservative Jewish extremists had taken
over the temple. The entire region was
in rebellion against Romans, and the
Romans had to "solve the problem once
and for all." The Romans massacred tens
of thousands of Jews. The city of
Jerusalem was destroyed, especially the
Herod's new Temple.

This was the end of the Jews in
Jerusalem for centuries, but it was the
beginning of the spread of Christianity.

&&3 Converting to a new religion

How does one convert to a new religion?
It depends on the religion, of course.

[[~Convert;/ing to Judaism,
Christianity, Islam, Hinduism,
Buddhism]]

We're getting a little ahead of
ourselves by discussing religions we
haven't come to yet, but let's look at
how you convert to various religions:

(*) <b>Judaism.</b> Perform a long
course of study in Jewish law,
customs and life.

(*) <b>Christianity.</b> Agree to be
baptized. A baptism is usually
given by Christian clergy, but it
can be performed by anyone with the
proper intent. The person
performing the baptism pours water
on the head of the person to be
baptized, and says, while pouring
the water, "I baptize thee in the
name of the Father, and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost."

(*) <b>Islam.</b> Recite the words,
"There is no God except Allah, and
Mohammed is the Messenger of Allah."

(*) <b>Hinduism.</b> It's
practically impossible to convert to
Hinduism, because of the caste
system.

(*) <b>Buddhism.</b> Agree to accept
the precepts of Buddhism.

Of these religions, Judaism and Hinduism
are "hard" to convert to, while
Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are
"easy" to convert to.

When I write the last paragraph, I mean
no disrespect to any religion. Any
Christian, Muslim or Buddhist will tell
you that you haven't really converted to
that religion just by reciting a few
words; you have to study and accept an
entire way of life. Nonetheless, you
<i>can</i> convert to these religions in
a matter of a few minutes, just by
reciting a few words or performing a
simple rite.

&&3 Proselytizing and Non-Proselytizing Religions

Consider the following: There are
Catholic missionaries in China whose
purpose is to convert people to the
Catholic religion, but there are no
Jewish missionaries in China to convert
people to the Jewish religion. What's
the difference?

The Jewish concept of a "chosen people"
is contrary to the idea of
proselytizing. That's not to say that
proselytizing has never occurred,
especially in the old days, but no one
would ever expect Judaism to become a
universal religion. No one would expect
a Chinese Buddhist to convert to Judaism
except in very unusual circumstances.

Christianity is the universal version of
Judaism. (Incidentally, Buddhism is the
universal form of Hinduism.) Any person
can become a Christian by becoming
baptized. That's why Christianity could
spread while Judaism couldn't. And
that's why, eventually, someone would
have to come along and provide a
universal version of Judaism, if Jesus
Christ and his followers hadn't done so.

&&3 Top-Down and Bottom-Up Religions

Just as there's no Jewish missionary in
China doing proselytizing, you're not
too likely to see a Greek Orthodox
missionary in China to convert Chinese
to the Greek Orthodox religion, or a
Russian Orthodox missionary converting
Chinese to the Russian Orthodox
religion. Once again, what's the
difference?

The religion that grew out of Jesus'
ministry became the Orthodox religion.
It was adopted by the Romans, and then
moved east, became centered in
Constantinople (Istanbul), and later
spread northward to the Slav peoples.
Today, the two main branches are Greek
Orthodox and Russian Orthodox, although
there are dozens of other minor
branches.

Orthodox Christianity differs from
Catholic (and Protestant) Christianity
because the former is a "top-down"
religion, adopted first by rulers and
then spread to the people, while the
latter is a "bottom-up" religion,
spreading among the people, and then
adopted by the state during fault line
wars.

The Orthodox religion moved east to
Constantinople (now Istanbul, Turkey)
because Rome was being attacked and
pillaged from the west and north,
especially by the Teutonic tribes from
the North. The Teutonic (German) tribes
adopted Christianity, but not in the
Orthodox form. Instead a new form,
Catholicism, was born. This was a
"bottom-up" religion because, as we
said, any individual could become a
Catholic by being baptized. The same was
true of the Protestant religions that
split off from the Catholic religions in
the 1500s in Germany (then known as the
Holy Roman Empire, even though, to use
the words of Voltaire, it wasn't holy,
it wasn't Roman, and it wasn't an
empire).

These are some of the many reasons why
Orthodox Christianity is different from
Western Christianity.

&&2 Judaism and the Spread of Christianity

Great ideas are born during awakenings,
and frequently they're spread (or
extinguished) during crisis wars. Now
we're going to look at another great
idea, born during an awakening, and
spread throughout the world for
millennia to come -- the ministry of
Jesus Christ and the spread of
Christianity.

It's impossible to understand Jesus
Christ without first understanding the
history of Judaism, as well as the
unique qualities of Jews that have
caused them to excel at whatever they
did -- the same qualities that have led
them to be the targets of attack by
other civilizations throughout the
centuries.

&&3 Judaism and Diaspora

The seminal crisis war that set the
pattern for Hebrew life for millennia to
come occurred somewhere around 1200 BC
(give or take a century), when Moses
liberated the Hebrew people from
Egyptian slavery by means of two
miracles: the crossing of the Red Sea
and survival in the desert. That
legendary story, told in the book of
Exodus in the Bible, has influenced
major world events ever since, to an
extent that must not be
underestimated. If that event hadn't
occurred, the Hebrews might have been
just another cult that eventually
disappeared, and Jerusalem might have
been just another ordinary city, rather
than a location that has been the
epicenter of one major historical event
after another.

Just as the heroic victory of Athens
over the Persians started a chain of
events that spread Greek culture
throughout the world, the heroic victory
of Moses and his people over the
Egyptians started a chain of events that
sustained Jews and Judaism to this day.

For, in the eyes of the Hebrews, this
event made them the "chosen people."
The two miracles caused them to renew
their covenant with God that Abraham had
made several centuries, and confirmed
their faith that God would protect them.

<insert Callout> The seminal crisis that
set the pattern for Hebrew life for
millennia was the crossing of the Red
Sea

In the austere days following the
exodus, Moses took steps to make sure
that "nothing like that must ever happen
again." He imposed the Ten Commandments
on the people, and then developed an
entire moral and religious code, a code
of political and social
organization[[*]]. The covenant with
God, made centuries earlier by Abraham,
presumably during an awakening period,
was now confirmed and established by a
crisis war.

[["He imposed the Ten Commandments on
the people, and then developed an entire
moral and religious code, a code of
political and social organization.":
Henri Daniel-Rops, <i>Daily Life in
Palestine at the Time of Christ</i>,
Phoenix Press, 2002, originally
published as <i>La Vie quotidienne en
Palestine au temps de J&eacute;sus</i>,
1962, pp. 31-32 |~ Henri Daniel-Rops]]

This time, the awakening that followed
went in a different direction, to the
worshippers of the Golden Calf. There
must have been many struggles and crisis
wars in the centuries that followed,
creating a historical fault line between
the followers of Moses' law and the
others - the heathens.

The view of Jews as the "chosen people"
was sealed several centuries later when
the Jews were conquered, exiled into
Babylon, and eventually allowed to
return to their homeland. This was once
again interpreted through Jewish law:
God had punished the chosen people for
their heathen practices, but then had
shown mercy by ending their exile[[*]].

[["God had punished the chosen people
for their heathen practices, but then
had shown mercy by ending their exile.":
Daniel-Rops, <i>op. cit.</i>, p. 32]]

The point of all of this history is the
set of ideas surrounding the word
"Diaspora." This word was originally
coined to describe groups of Jewish
people scattered around many countries,
but now the word "diaspora," without
capitalizing, is used to describe any
group of people of common religion or
ethnicity who are living in a community
not in the native country of their
religion or ethnicity.

But while diaspora is a general word,
it's the Jewish Diaspora that have
influenced world events the most. Why
is that? Mainly because Judaism has not
had a homeland for the overwhelming
portion of its history, and so it's
always been mainly a Diaspora religion.

No religion could possibly survive
without a base, a homeland, and
certainly not a religion whose adherents
have been exiled, moved or slaughtered
so many times in history. Yet, Judaism
<i>has</i> survived.

It survived because the Jewish law,
starting with the laws of Moses, was
designed so that God's chosen people
could survive as Diaspora.

As a "chosen people," the Jews could
live in any country and still maintain
their Jewish identity. Whether in
Jerusalem, Egypt, Italy or later in
other countries throughout the world,
the Jews had a collection of scriptures
and laws to live by, and they could
reestablish their identity simply by
gathering together in a group of two or
more and reading and discussing those
scriptures. This ability of Jewish
Diaspora to live anywhere, anytime, and
still maintain a Jewish identity,
without merging into the local society,
makes the Jews almost unique among major
civilizations of world history.

And that's the uniqueness that creates
the irrational xenophobia among other
people toward the Jews. Jewish people
had their own laws that took precedence
of the laws of the society around them.
(They viewed their laws as coming from a
"higher power," a concept that the
Christians later inherited, as did the
Muslims even later.) Even in earliest
times, Jewish communities were
insulated, and even had their own courts
of law. Some societies tolerated Jewish
disobedience of local laws better than
others, and the ones that didn't
tolerate it often responded by moving
the local Jewish community elsewhere,
passing the problem on to someone else.
This common solution to the local
"Jewish problem" meant that Jewish
history has almost always been of Jews
in other countries, rather than of Jews
in their own country.

<insert Callout right> As a Chosen
People, the Jews could live in any
country and still maintain their Jewish
identity

Historian Henri Daniel-Rops puts it as
follows:

>> Everything, then was related to the
Chosen People's certainty that they were
unique, different from all others and
superior to them[[*]]: everything, their
monotheistic faith, love of their
country, submission to moral laws,
desire to order their social and
political lives according to given
principles, and their feeling for the
highest kind of mystical experience. It
was, therefore, theology rather than
ethnology that determined their racial
characteristics.

[["Everything, then was related to the
Chosen People's certainty that they were
unique, different from all others and
superior to them": Henri Daniel-Rops,
<i>op. cit.</i>, pp. 32-33]]

It's important to understand that most
of this description -- a monotheistic
faith and submission to moral laws -- is
common to Christianity and Islam (and,
in fact, was inherited by them). The
distinctive difference is the form those
laws took resulting from the fact that
there was no Jewish homeland.

&&3 A Jewish Homeland

Following the Golden Age of Greece,
Alexander the Great had spread Greek
culture and Greek language throughout
the Mediterranean area, and into points
further east. Whether in Jerusalem or
elsewhere in the region, the ordinary
people spoke the local language, but the
educated elite spoke Greek, enjoyed
Greek art, and lived in expensive homes
with a Greek architecture. To use
modern day terminology, "Hellenization"
was associated with the rich, making it
a resented symbol of the class struggle
between the rich and the poor.

However, the Greeks were not the rulers
of this Greek-based culture. These were
the days of the Roman Empire, and the
Romans were the rulers. The Roman
rulers had to deal with large Jewish
populations of Jewish Diaspora in
Babylon and Rome, and mostly got along
well with them (with some painful
exceptions) because they granted Jews
the right to violate Roman law when it
conflicted with traditional Jewish law.

Nonetheless, Judea, the region
containing Jerusalem, was a special
problem. The Jews actually took control
of Judea in 142 BC, and it became a
Jewish homeland, an independent Jewish
state. In 63 BC, the Romans took over,
and there was no Jewish homeland again
until 1948.

&&3 King Herod

In 42 BC, Rome appointed Herod to rule
Judea. It's hard to imagine any ruler
with the ability to cause more
dissension and despair among the people.
Consider these factors:

(*) Herod was given the title "King
of the Jews" by the Romans.

(*) Herod was half-Jewish,
half-Arab, a combination that caused
many people to consider him impure,
and hold him in contempt.

(*) Herod ruled by cruelty and
terror, killing anyone who stood in
his way, even members of his own
family. (According to one anecdote,
when Herod had his own son executed,
a Roman master quipped, "I would
rather be Herod's pig than Herod's
son.")

(*) Herod enforced his terror by
using Roman forces, hated by the
people.

(*) Herod collected enormous amounts
in taxes, and used them to build
lush palaces in the hated Hellenized
style. One building that might have
helped with the people was his
rebuilding of the ancient Jewish
temple of Jerusalem. But he spoiled
it by adorning it prominently with
the hated golden Roman eagle.

Added to all that, there was a natural
disaster. In 31 BC, an earthquake
killed 30,000 people and leveled
thousands of buildings.

Herod ended his reign with especially
cruel forms of terror. When some
students tried to remove the golden
Roman eagle from the temple, some 40
students were burned alive. And the
Matthew 2 tells a (possibly exaggerated)
story of the "Massacre of the
Innocents": When Herod learned of a
ruler that the real "King of the Jews"
had been born, he ordered the murder of
all babies younger than 2 years. Christ
was born in 6 BC, and Herod died in 4
BC. The kingdom was divided among three
of his sons.

&&3 Aftermath of Herod: Jesus Christ andChristianity

The long reign of terror ended with
Herod's death. A crisis period is
always followed by a period of
austerity, where people who lived
through the crisis set rules for society
so that nothing like that will ever
happen again. For the Jews, this meant
that they would not provoke the Romans,
and for the Romans, this meant that any
minor revolt had to be put down quickly,
in order to avoid a larger revolt.
There was an extended period of peace
between 7 and 26 AD.

Jesus Christ was born too late to have
any personal memory of Herod's reign of
terror. There's always a "generation
gap" between the generation of children
born after a crisis period and the
people who lived through the crisis
period. That's why so may great new
ideas, like a new religion, almost
always occur 20-40 years after a crisis
period ends -- that's when there's a new
awakening.

As a member of that young rebellious
generation, we can well imagine that
Jesus Christ would have wanted to rebel
against not only the Romans but also
against the elders in his own community,
people who would be telling him to keep
quiet, lest he cause trouble for himself
and themselves.

Although this is a secular presentation
of Jesus' life using Generational
Dynamics, it may seem strange,
especially to Christians, to be talking
about these kinds of generational issues
with regard to Jesus, but doing so is no
disrespect to the Christian religion,
according to Professor Gene Chase of
Messiah College in Grantham, Penn.

"Of course Jesus was a man of His time,"
says Chase. "The very essence of the
doctrine of His incarnation is that He
is fully man, not just physically but
also socially, intellectually, and
emotionally. Jesus was a man of his
culture, and hence a man of the culture
of his time. He studied the Torah as a
boy; He enjoyed parties as a young man;
His parables are agrarian to connect
with the culture of His time; He taught
peripatetically. These are the sorts of
things that one would have expected of a
good Jewish boy who became a rabbi. In
fact, the Bible even says explicitly
that Jesus came at just the right time."

So, for Christian and non-Christian
readers alike, there is nothing
unreasonable to say that his rebellion
got many people angry. He got the
Romans angry because of his popularity.
He got many of the Jews angry because of
his attitude toward the Jewish
laws. (According to Matthew 5:17-20, he
said, "Do not think I have come to set
aside the Law and the prophets; I have
not come to set them aside, but to bring
them to perfection." So he "perfected"
the laws by ignoring the unnecessary
parts, including the dietary laws which
were considered extremely important.)
So he was a very charismatic
rabble-rouser, and he was considered
"dangerous" by both the Romans and the
Jews.

Why didn't Jesus flee? This is a
question that demands an answer from
both a secular and a Christian point of
view. Jesus knew that the Romans were
coming to arrest him and execute him.
Why didn't he flee the region (as
Mohammed did in a similar situation six
centuries later)?

The answer, according to Chase, is that
Jesus saw himself as the Messiah as
described in Isaiah 53:7, which was
written 600 years before Jesus: "He was
oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not
open his mouth; he was led like a lamb
to the slaughter, and as a sheep before
her shearers is silent, so he did not
open his mouth."

According to Chase, "Jesus saw himself
as the person described there, not as
molded by his time. Jesus knew Isaiah's
writings well and lived in the light of
them."

So Jesus was executed / crucified.

During the next 30 years, there were
many uprisings among the Jews, resulting
in many skirmishes with the Romans.
Such skirmishes are typical of the years
immediately preceding the next crisis.
The hostilities end quickly because, as
we've seen, the opinion makers are
people who lived through the last
crisis, and happily resort to
containment and compromise.

By 66 AD, the generation that had
personal memory of Herod's reign of
terror were gone, replaced as leaders by
the post-Herod generation, and the most
conservative Jewish extremists had taken
over the temple. The entire region was
in rebellion against Romans, and the
Romans had to "solve the problem once
and for all." The Romans massacred tens
of thousands of Jews. The city of
Jerusalem was destroyed, especially the
Herod's new Temple.

This was the end of the Jews in
Jerusalem for centuries, but it was the
beginning of the spread of Christianity.

&&3 Converting to a new religion

How does one convert to a new religion?
It depends on the religion, of course.

We're getting a little ahead of
ourselves by discussing religions we
haven't come to yet, but let's look at
how you convert to various religions:

(*) <b>Judaism.</b> Perform a long
course of study in Jewish law,
customs and life.

(*) <b>Christianity.</b> Agree to be
baptized. A baptism is usually
given by Christian clergy, but it
can be performed by anyone with the
proper intent. The person
performing the baptism pours water
on the head of the person to be
baptized, and says, while pouring
the water, "I baptize thee in the
name of the Father, and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost."

(*) <b>Islam.</b> Recite the words,
"There is no God except Allah, and
Mohammed is the Messenger of Allah."

(*) <b>Hinduism.</b> It's
practically impossible to convert to
Hinduism, because of the caste
system.

(*) <b>Buddhism.</b> Agree to accept
the precepts of Buddhism.

Of these religions, Judaism and Hinduism
are "hard" to convert to, while
Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are
"easy" to convert to.

When I write the last paragraph, I mean
no disrespect to any religion. Any
Christian, Muslim or Buddhist will tell
you that you haven't really converted to
that religion just by reciting a few
words; you have to study and accept an
entire way of life. Nonetheless, you
<i>can</i> convert to these religions in
a matter of a few minutes, just by
reciting a few words or performing a
simple rite.

&&3 Proselytizing and Non-Proselytizing
Religions

Consider the following: There are
Catholic missionaries in China whose
purpose is to convert people to the
Catholic religion, but there are no
Jewish missionaries in China to convert
people to the Jewish religion. What's
the difference?

The Jewish concept of a "chosen people"
is contrary to the idea of
proselytizing. That's not to say that
proselytizing has never occurred,
especially in the old days, but no one
would ever expect Judaism to become a
universal religion. No one would expect
a Chinese Buddhist to convert to Judaism
except in very unusual circumstances.

Christianity is the universal version of
Judaism. (Incidentally, Buddhism is the
universal form of Hinduism.) Any person
can become a Christian by becoming
baptized. That's why Christianity could
spread while Judaism couldn't. And
that's why, eventually, someone would
have to come along and provide a
universal version of Judaism, if Jesus
Christ and his followers hadn't done so.

&&3 Top-Down and Bottom-Up Religions

Just as there's no Jewish missionary in
China doing proselytizing, you're not
too likely to see a Greek Orthodox
missionary in China to convert Chinese
to the Greek Orthodox religion, or a
Russian Orthodox missionary converting
Chinese to the Russian Orthodox
religion. Once again, what's the
difference?

The religion that grew out of Jesus'
ministry became the Orthodox religion.
It was adopted by the Romans, and then
moved east, became centered in
Constantinople (Istanbul), and later
spread northward to the Slav peoples.
Today, the two main branches are Greek
Orthodox and Russian Orthodox, although
there are dozens of other minor
branches.

Orthodox Christianity differs from
Catholic (and Protestant) Christianity
because the former is a "top-down"
religion, adopted first by rulers and
then spread to the people, while the
latter is a "bottom-up" religion,
spreading among the people, and then
adopted by the state during fault line
wars.

The Orthodox religion moved east to
Constantinople (now Istanbul, Turkey)
because Rome was being attacked and
pillaged from the west and north,
especially by the Teutonic tribes from
the North. The Teutonic (German) tribes
adopted Christianity, but not in the
Orthodox form. Instead a new form,
Catholicism, was born. This was a
"bottom-up" religion because, as we
said, any individual could become a
Catholic by being baptized. The same was
true of the Protestant religions that
split off from the Catholic religions in
the 1500s in Germany (then known as the
Holy Roman Empire, even though, to use
the words of Voltaire, it wasn't holy,
it wasn't Roman, and it wasn't an
empire).

These are some of the many reasons why
Orthodox Christianity is different from
Western Christianity.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:59 pm
Higgenbotham wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:29 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:21 pm


False accusations. I'm curious, and then we can leave it there, what is fanatical about me? That I believe that Jesus Christ is the God-Man? What is anti-semitic even mean? The ashkenazim aren't even semites, nor are the sephardim, and most "jews" don't even believe in God. Certainly the ones that run the show don't. The marketplace of ideas loves these accusations, Higgie, so what does that tell you about the "marketplace"? It loves money and lies, yes, indeed.
What is fanatical about you? Hire a Jewish psychiatrist and he will tell you.
Hahaha, that's a good one.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Higgenbotham wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:32 pm
John wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:21 pm
We're getting a little ahead of
ourselves by discussing religions we
haven't come to yet, but let's look at
how you convert to various religions:

(*) <b>Judaism.</b> Perform a long
course of study in Jewish law,
customs and life.

(*) <b>Christianity.</b> Agree to be
baptized. A baptism is usually
given by Christian clergy, but it
can be performed by anyone with the
proper intent. The person
performing the baptism pours water
on the head of the person to be
baptized, and says, while pouring
the water, "I baptize thee in the
name of the Father, and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost."

(*) <b>Islam.</b> Recite the words,
"There is no God except Allah, and
Mohammed is the Messenger of Allah."

(*) <b>Hinduism.</b> It's
practically impossible to convert to
Hinduism, because of the caste
system.

(*) <b>Buddhism.</b> Agree to accept
the precepts of Buddhism.

Of these religions, Judaism and Hinduism
are "hard" to convert to, while
Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are
"easy" to convert to.

Before education had a good payback, Jews were obligated by their religion to educate their children. The education obligation allowed Jews to enter urban professions like banking and trade. The easy exit out of Judaism probably self-selected those Jews who didn't want to educate their children. This gave Jews a centuries head start in understanding the past few decades' model for success (In other words, get an education and a good paying job in a city).

Another thing that relates to that is there is a moral code in rural areas versus a moral code in urban areas. I witnessed this conflict as I grew up. My grandparents spent their entire lives in a rural area; my parents spent until age 18 in a rural area and 34 working years in a city. They couldn't wait to get the hell out. As kids, my sister and I went back to their home every year and were immersed in rural culture for a week. I think part of the huge divide in this country has to do with the fact that more and more families have spent several generations in the city and have not been exposed to rural culture in any meaningful way at all, as my sister and I were.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Guest wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:26 am
Higgenbotham wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:29 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:21 pm


False accusations. I'm curious, and then we can leave it there, what is fanatical about me? That I believe that Jesus Christ is the God-Man? What is anti-semitic even mean? The ashkenazim aren't even semites, nor are the sephardim, and most "jews" don't even believe in God. Certainly the ones that run the show don't. The marketplace of ideas loves these accusations, Higgie, so what does that tell you about the "marketplace"? It loves money and lies, yes, indeed.
What is fanatical about you? Hire a Jewish psychiatrist and he will tell you.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, find your Id.

Clarkmod
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:15 am

Re: Cool Breeze's Topic

Post by Clarkmod »

Guest Doubt wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:35 am
There is no evidence of the Exodus in Ancient Egyptian records. While the Greek and Macedonian wars are well documented and there is archaeological evidence of the ancient Macedonian and Greek, there is no solid evidence of the Exodus. It seems that the Jews cherry picked events across thousand of years. The idea of a huge group of Jewish slaves being expelled only appears in Jewish records. There were enslaved POWs in ancient Egypt, some were probably Jews, but it seems to most that the Exodus story is fiction--myth. Nothing wrong with that, most origin stories are myth.

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