Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Higgenbotham
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Higgenbotham »

Carl Icahn is a Silent, 87 years old, born in 1936, and still working. One of the few Silent generation voices left. Here's what he said today.
Carl Icahn says our economy is breaking because of inflation and poor corporate leadership

PUBLISHED TUE, MAR 14 2023 3:54 PM EDT
UPDATED 59 MIN AGO

Heidi Gutman | CNBC
Famed investor Carl Icahn believes the U.S. economy is in trouble because of poor corporate leadership and stubbornly high inflation.

“The system is breaking down, and we absolutely have a major problem in our economy today,” Icahn said on CNBC’s “Closing Bell” Tuesday. “One of the worst countries in the world as far as corporate governance.”

Icahn has been a longtime activist investor and corporate raider, making profit from forcing changes to corporate policy. He credited his success to his ability to take advantage of questionable governance at the corporate level.

“Leadership is worse than mediocre. And that’s why we’re so successful. I mean, not because we’re geniuses, but because you go into a company today ... It’s really horrible what you find,” Icahn said.

Meanwhile, Icahn said another major issue in the economy right now is surging inflation and the Federal Reserve has no choice but keep raising rates to squash it.

“I think Powell really has to raise interest rates sooner than later,” Icahn said. Inflation is the worst thing the economy can have.... I don’t think you have a choice. If you don’t keep going on, I really believe that the problem of inflation can become such that it’s very, very difficult to get out of it.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/14/icahn-s ... dance.html

I listened to the whole interview and it was quite sobering. In addition to what is in the article, Icahn said not all, but most, empires that collapsed had an inflation problem. He specifically mentioned the Roman Empire. We know this, of course, but to hear someone like Icahn say this on national television in addition to what is above says a lot about what he is thinking.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

aeden
Posts: 12353
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by aeden »

I looked up the interview and He was really polite stating how broken it is with them in that zone rather early into the landscape of it.
They treated His Team beyond poorly and past rude. No amount of regard and patience can atone for the blatant arrogance
as they are blotted out now past wasting. The view and attitude I have seen many times are your just ditch diggers
while they truly are circling the drain in ruin. I have greater appreciation for How and Who He is in that mentally arrogated waste land.

https://archive.org/details/rosalindhel ... ew=theater

Not surprising since my Father born in 1936 conveyed the same affects you just forwarded from Icahn.
As we noted very early with GD and also GGS book and also the Kondratiev Winter cycles also to distill it.
It would confuse to many if we went into the long count files. Doctor Petersons explanation
of the Pareto Paradox clarifies the propaganda expositors today to what is going today.
That cannot be fixed staring them straight in the face. It was not pity or remorse reply just a sullen tone to what
they put themselves in. It was not the wont of the Nail why the Horse threw its Shoe. The one who placed the Nail knew how
it would fare and for only so long. Adjectives are very telling in times.
Last edited by aeden on Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Higgenbotham
Posts: 7436
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Higgenbotham »

aeden wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:26 pm
I looked up the interview and He was really polite stating how broken it is with them in that zone rather early into the landscape of it.
They treated His Team beyond poorly and past rude. No amount of regard and patience can atone for the blatant arrogance
as they are blotted out now past wasting. The view and attitude I have seen many times are your just ditch diggers
while they truly are circling the drain in ruin. I have greater appreciation for How and Who He is in that mentally arrogated waste land.

https://archive.org/details/rosalindhel ... ew=theater

Not surprising since my Father born in 1936 conveyed the same affects you just forwarded from Icahn.
As we noted very early with GD and also GGS book and also the Kondratiev Winter cycles also to distill it.
It would confuse to many if we went into the long count files. Doctor Petersons explanation
of the Pareto Paradox clarifies the propaganda expositors today to what is going today.
That cannot be fixed staring them straight in the face. It was not pity or remorse reply just a sullen tone to what
they put themselves in. It was not the wont of the Nail why the Horse threw its Shoe. The one who placed the Nail knew how
it would fare and for only so long. Adjective are very telling in times.
Listening to that interview, I had an appreciation for Carl Icahn that I never had before. The reason being, he was clear in saying there are certain lines that you don't cross if you want to have a civilization that functions, he laid out clearly what those lines are, then he clearly described how those lines are being crossed. He didn't just go on there to talk about his particular beef with how Illumina turned around and paid 8X for a company they had sold for X without regulatory approval. He used that as an example to say this is widespread and the system is broken. Unfortunately, the entirely of the interview is behind a paywall on CNBC Pro. I was aware he was coming on and tuned in to listen.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

aeden
Posts: 12353
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by aeden »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg8-1hkbU80 fair to say facts of the matter are clear

Higgenbotham
Posts: 7436
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Higgenbotham »

CNBC NEWS RELEASES
CNBC Transcript: Icahn Enterprises Chairman Carl Icahn Speaks with CNBC’s Scott Wapner on “Closing Bell” Today
PUBLISHED TUE, MAR 14 20235:12 PM EDT


WHERE: CNBC’s “Closing Bell”

Following is the unofficial transcript from a CNBC interview with Icahn Enterprises Chairman Carl Icahn on CNBC’s “Closing Bell” (M-F, 3PM-4PM ET) today, Tuesday, March 14th. Following is a link to video on CNBC.com: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/03/14/i ... icahn.html.

All references must be sourced to CNBC.

SCOTT WAPNER: Billionaire investor Carl Icahn finding his latest activist target in biotech firm Illumina taking issue with that company’s acquisition of Grail, which specializes in cancer testing. The deal being contested right now by European regulators. Mr. Icahn, nominating three people to that company’s board and gearing up for a fight. He joins us now to discuss that issue and of course, the state of the markets, the economy, the Fed. Carl, welcome back. It’s nice to talk to you today.

CARL ICAHN: Yeah, good to talk to you, Scott.

WAPNER: You know, we’re gonna get to the Illumina thing in a minute, but just given where we’ve been over the past few days, I want to get to the markets first and I want your take on on what you think has transpired here over the past few days from a market standpoint.

ICAHN: Yeah, I don’t think it’s the last few days necessarily. I think we have some major problems in our economy. Maybe they’ll be fixed, but just look at many, many factors. We’ve been on a, you know, spending spree and, you know, the rising tide the tide lifts all ships, but a lot of people in our economy are not doing well obviously, you know, the net worth of the median household is nothing basically and you you just look at what is going on, I think Powell really has to raise interest rates sooner or later. I can’t talk about next week or even next month but inflation is the worst thing an economy can have and I think people underrate that. If you look in history, every hegemony has been destroyed by inflation or almost everyone. I mean, just go back to Rome. That’s what happens and one of our major problems I think in this economy right now, is is there is no leadership on the corporate level, you know, forget politically and I’m not going to get into politics, but I think you do feel that in Washington, nobody knows what’s really going on. But forgetting that, in our corporations and I’ve lived with that I mean all my life basically and companies today really have with many exceptions, many, many exceptions, leadership is is worse than mediocre. And that’s why we’re so successful. I mean, not because we’re geniuses but because you go into a company today that’s what we’ve done over and over and over again and it’s really horrible what you find in many of them. Just—

WAPNER: We’ll get to your, we’ll get to your latest one as I mentioned in a minute but I just want to drill down on this for a moment. So, so you think the Fed should keep going, you think the Fed should continue to raise interest rates despite what we just witnessed with, you know, the bank failures?

ICAHN: You know, in a way, they go together. Your, your, bank failure is a manifestation of the leadership in our companies and the way they spend money and you really have a moral hazard if you just keep bailing them out of, in this case I’m not going to opine on trying to save some poor people, although the depositors in Silicon Valley weren’t exactly poor people, but that’s not the issue. The issue is you have to stop inflation. So you say, do we keep going on I don’t think you have a choice. If you don’t keep going on, I really believe that the problem with inflation can become such that this very it’s very difficult to get to get out of it. Maybe there’s something we can you know, that happens maybe there’s some miracle, but you do have inflation. I mean look, if you stopped, you know, if they don’t raise rates next week or next month. I don’t know but I don’t I really don’t think there’s a choice, Scott. I think you can’t have inflation in this country. You’re paying the price. You know, if you’ve gone out on a binge, you spent the family wealth and you just keep spending at the end you pay the price for it. I mean—

WAPNER: I want your reaction to what Citadel’s Ken Griffin told the FT about this very issue in which he suggested that the government should not have bailed out all of the depositors. He said, quote, “The U.S. is supposed to be a capitalist economy, and that’s breaking down before our eyes.” There’s been a loss of financial discipline with the government bailing out depositors in full. What do you make of that statement? He also goes after the regulator but what do you think about that?

ICAHN: I can’t opine on what Griffin is saying there because I don’t quite understand where it goes. But I am saying that he is right that our system is breaking down and that we absolutely have a major problem in our economy today. And I’m not going opine on whether or not you bailout a bank or something like that. You can’t have the country feeling that doesn’t matter if they save. It doesn’t matter because they could spend all the money they want. They could do whatever you want because the government will bail you out. You can’t he’s right about that. You can’t have that. Now, should you bail this bank out? I don’t know. That’s a part of the I don’t like to opine on things that I’m not really that conversant in. But I do agree that the system is breaking it. Now, one of the major reasons not the only reason obviously but one of the major reasons is that you don’t have good corporate leadership. So you say so what? But I’ll tell you so what. If you don’t have good corporate leadership in companies, yeah when the tide is high and things are great, it doesn’t matter and all these guys who are running these companies are partying and having a good time and giving themselves bonuses. But their agendas are different than the people who invest with them. You know, they are only there to get their bonuses. And I tell you, I live it so I go into it and there’s a reason that we make so much money. I mean just to make the point. Over the years, if you invested in IEP, you annualized, you made and reinvested the dividends, you made an annual return of 15%. And the closest is Buffett who I believe made around 9%, S&P made 7%. But why? Because we go into companies and clean them up. And there’s so much to clean up and it’s getting much worse now. We’re one of the worst countries in the world as far as corporate governance goes, and I could go on and on about that, bu

WAPNER: No but we’ll get into—

ICAHN: The whole economy—

WAPNER: I said—

ICAHN: The economy’s breaking down but I don’t think it’s right because you bailed out some investors but I do say he’s right in the sense that our economy is breaking down. I don’t understand the capitalist way how you define capitalistic system.

WAPNER: You’ve been fairly negative on the market for a while. You’ve been hedged and I think you had given us an idea of how your positioning looked. I just had a guest come on and suggest that we’re not out of the woods quite yet. You now have, you know, the stock market had a nice gain today, which was a bit of a relief rally obviously given a lot of that up. Do you feel like, you know, we still have some tough sledding ahead in the market and how are you positioned as we’re having this conversation today?

ICAHN: Yeah, my book is very, I try to keep hedge, right, I try keep hedge so I don’t, I try not to bet on the market or pick, you know, the market’s going down tomorrow. But sometimes, I do talk about what I think is gonna happen over a period of six months, a year, two years. I remember being on your show, I think the last time maybe last couples of times a year ago, six months ago, eight months ago, and I said the same thing that this market is gonna really get hurt. And I was right on that. But big deal. You know, you really can’t make a living picking the market, you know, day to day, month to month. But if you’re asking me how I’m hedged, I’ve, you know, the book is more short than long. And that’s the way I’ve set it up. We have and the long positions are the ones that for the most part, we’re going to be activists or are activists in. So, I figure, you know, I could do better in those companies than the the market. And you know, you have some bad times and some good times. It’s doesn’t work day in day out. But that’s how I feel and—

WAPNER: Well, if you’re, if you’re more short than long, you I think at one point your biggest, maybe your biggest position overall but certainly your biggest short was commercial real estate related which some are now suggesting is potentially the next shoe to drop in all of this. What are your thoughts?

ICAHN: Well, we were in that three years ago, as I told you three, four years ago, we bought CDS of complicated derivatives audit, coming to fruition, pretty good. But it takes time, right? It’s a very complicated derivative. I wouldn’t suggest the average guy even thinks about doing it, but our real estate markets were completely, totally overvalued. These malls were completely overvalued even if you even if you didn’t have this mess, Amazon was taking a lot of business away and you look at things simply, I mean and so today actually some good some good companies around, there’s some bargains around in the meat and potatoes kind of companies that I like to be in. But generally, I think you can’t justify buying some of this S&P stuff, these technology stocks and whatever where they can’t justify price of value meaning that with higher interest rates which I think are here to stay, you really can’t justify some of the prices of these tech stocks where you looked at the price of value and said well, you’re better than an interest rate. That was true when you were talking two percent interest rates, but now, even there, these tech stocks that are run by people in many cases that shouldn’t be running companies. I mean, I’m not saying they’re not bright people but I am saying they should not be running companies. And many of the ones that do run them I don’t think I don’t think have the trust of shareholders that put money into it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/14/cnbc-tr ... today.html
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

aeden
Posts: 12353
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by aeden »

The bank was looted to insolvency for payments.
The lie again this morning from the Marxist press is more regs are needed
so we can take more for trained Marxists

deluded deceived diseased brain pans
https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru/status/ ... 7419961344
https://twitter.com/CouchPotatoSJW/stat ... 26/photo/1
refuge of outlaws and robbers

Gone yonder

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Gone yonder »

expat wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:41 pm
Americans are idiots. Even American millionaires who are leaving the country.
I think the people who escape are smart enough to recognize what has happened to the country. Europe is not heaven, but some places have not such as low as the US.
Why are they idiots if they are leaving?

Higgenbotham
Posts: 7436
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Higgenbotham »

Gone yonder wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:03 am
expat wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:41 pm
Americans are idiots. Even American millionaires who are leaving the country.
I think the people who escape are smart enough to recognize what has happened to the country. Europe is not heaven, but some places have not such as low as the US.
Why are they idiots if they are leaving?
Higgenbotham wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:53 pm
America's rich who want more options are now migrating to countries like Portugal, Malta, Spain, Greece, and Italy, which offer golden visas and migration programs, he wrote.

But millionaires opting for a second passport isn't a matter of avoiding taxes, Jeff D. Opdyke, an investment expert who covered finance for 17 years at the Wall Street Journal, wrote in the report.

They're simply chasing the American Dream elsewhere, he wrote.

More investors, C-suite execs, and entrepreneurs are migrating to future-proof their wealth, "seeking greener pastures for investment and business growth, safer destinations to raise their families," Opdyke added.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... 6dc916959b
They're still looking up. Still chasing the American Dream. The mindset is still where can I make a deal and where can I extract a buck the same way they did in LA or where ever they are fleeing from.

I think if the message they were sending is that they ruined America and recognize it but are changing their ways I might have a different opinion. But the mindset appears to be that they want to flee from what they ruined and ruin that too.
Guest wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:31 am
Cool Breeze wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:21 am
Will AI ultimately "run the world" via an elite group of people?

Is that what WW3 is all about?
AI is overblown.

I think we are heading for a land of small etho-based villages and towns. WW3 won't change that.
Back to how I was going to start this response (assuming you might be the same poster). I think the EU is going to get blown apart and Europe will be a thousand battlefields. If someone knows how they fit into that and migrates out of the US with that in mind, it is different.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.

Guest

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:31 am
Cool Breeze wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:21 am
Will AI ultimately "run the world" via an elite group of people?

Is that what WW3 is all about?
AI is overblown.

I think we are heading for a land of small etho-based villages and towns. WW3 won't change that.
Back to how I was going to start this response (assuming you might be the same poster). I think the EU is going to get blown apart and Europe will be a thousand battlefields. If someone knows how they fit into that and migrates out of the US with that in mind, it is different.
You mean that the EU is heading into civil war and any Americans who enter Europe now should know that?

Is anywhere safe, in your your estimation, Higgenbotham? What are you going to do? (If you want to keep that secret, I'll understand.

Any timeline yet?

Guest

Re: Higgenbotham's Dark Age Hovel

Post by Guest »

America's rich who want more options are now migrating to countries like Portugal, Malta, Spain, Greece, and Italy, which offer golden visas and migration programs, he wrote.

But millionaires opting for a second passport isn't a matter of avoiding taxes, Jeff D. Opdyke, an investment expert who covered finance for 17 years at the Wall Street Journal, wrote in the report.

They're simply chasing the American Dream elsewhere, he wrote.

More investors, C-suite execs, and entrepreneurs are migrating to future-proof their wealth, "seeking greener pastures for investment and business growth, safer destinations to raise their families," Opdyke added.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... 6dc916959b
They're still looking up. Still chasing the American Dream. The mindset is still where can I make a deal and where can I extract a buck the same way they did in LA or where ever they are fleeing from.

I think if the message they were sending is that they ruined America and recognize it but are changing their ways I might have a different opinion. But the mindset appears to be that they want to flee from what they ruined and ruin that too.
I partially agree. Yes, some, maybe most of those fleeing are leftist who don't recognize that they ruined California (and soon Texas), but some are rational and they see clearly what has happened.

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