Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Just as an additional thought, the above perspective is close enough to Marxist. Things are viewed as having to do with capitol, and all crises have a capitol element. If one's area of interest is something else, everything has to do with that something else. Military balance of power? Racism? The growth of democracy? Limits on industrial growth? Transitioning from one age's pattern of civilization to the next? In Generation Dynamic's case it is xenophobia and increasing territory. If your focus is on a limited set of topics, you could or somebody has created a perspective with those areas on center stage and the other elements missing.

I try to look at all relevant topics, but am not as good with some as others.

Crises are diverse. Whatever you decide is central and important, a crisis will include that element. The more you focus on that one element, the more you miss of the overall picture.

Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:56 pm
John wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:09 pm
Yes, China will inflict enormous damage on America and the world, but China itself will be destroyed, and the only question is what ethnic group will march in and take control. I vote for the Central Asian Turkics, including the Uighurs and Kazakhs, whom the Chinese are currently enslaving and unsuccessfuly trying to
exterminate.
They will get their revenge.
DaKardii wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:51 pm
My vote goes to the China being divided between Japan, the Tibetans, the Uighurs, and rebel cliques in the southeastern part of the country.
That's a great thought! Divide China up into four parts, just as Nazi Germany was split into four parts after WW II.
I would say do not choose the most xenophobic people to punish China, but choose the most democratic people to teach China. Think of the difference between the treaties that ended the two world wars. After the first, the tried to punish the Germans, and ended up fighting the war again. After the second, they had the Marshall plan. Try to rehabilitate Germany and have them stand against a common enemy. Try to transform Japan rather than punish it.

I am not sure if the problems with the Great Leap Forward was because Mao was Chinese, or because he was Communist. At any rate, I agree China’s current regime has a problem or a bunch of them. While seeing them punished for walking their current path might be satisfying, and seeing those the most harmed retaliate might be fun, I am not sure that is the right way to go.

John
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 27-Feb-2021 World View: Chinese / Confucian culture
John wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:09 pm
> Yes, China will inflict enormous damage on America and the world,
> but China itself will be destroyed, and the only question is what
> ethnic group will march in and take control. I vote for the
> Central Asian Turkics, including the Uighurs and Kazakhs, whom the
> Chinese are currently enslaving and unsuccessfuly trying to
> exterminate.
They will get their revenge.
DaKardii wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:51 pm
> My vote goes to the China being divided between Japan, the
> Tibetans, the Uighurs, and rebel cliques in the southeastern part
> of the country.
John wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:56 pm
> That's a great thought! Divide China up into four parts, just as
> Nazi Germany was split into four parts after WW II.
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:55 pm
> I would say do not choose the most xenophobic people to punish
> China, but choose the most democratic people to teach China.
> Think of the difference between the treaties that ended the two
> world wars. After the first, the tried to punish the Germans, and
> ended up fighting the war again. After the second, they had the
> Marshall plan. Try to rehabilitate Germany and have them stand
> against a common enemy. Try to transform Japan rather than punish
> it.
We're only speculating here, but if this scenario actually occurs,
I don't think that it will be up to us to "choose." Japan has
become a Westernized nation, so I don't know what they'll do. But
the Uighurs and Tibetans are going to be thirsting for revenge,
and they're not going to sit around waiting for permission to
go in and smash the Chinese government.

In 763 AD, the Tibetans captured and burned down China's western
capital Chang'an (Xian), while the Uighurs advanced from the north.
The union of the Tibetans and Uighurs would have conquered the
Chinese, except that in 765 the Uighurs switched sides and allied with
the Chinese. However, if there's a similar event in 2021 or 2020, I
doubt that the Uighurs will feel so charitable this time.
Bob Butler wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:55 pm
> I am not sure if the problems with the Great Leap Forward was
> because Mao was Chinese, or because he was Communist. At any
> rate, I agree China’s current regime has a problem or a bunch of
> them. While seeing them punished for walking their current path
> might be satisfying, and seeing those the most harmed retaliate
> might be fun, I am not sure that is the right way to go.
The point is not that Mao was a Chinese or a Communist. Mao was
insane, and the entire Great Leap Forward was insane. I'm not
exaggerating when I call it one of the stupidest policies of any
country in the history of the world. It killed tens of millions of
innocent Chinese, and destroyed the economy for decades. The point is
that the Chinese people cannot govern a worldwide empire because they
can't even government themselves, as shown by the fact that nobody
stopped his insane and unbelievably destructive policies.

I believe that this is because of the Chinese culture or, more
specifically, the Confucian culture. The leader is said to have a
Mandate from Heaven that requires obedience from his subjects. If the
Leader is insane, then his subjects must obey anyway. Disobedience is
tolerable only in the rarest, most extreme, and most exceptional
circumstances. No nation can successfully govern itself if it holds
strictly to those Confucian principles, since every leader makes
mistakes.

This would not be a problem in a Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Christian,
or Sunni Muslim culture, since leaders can make mistakes and be
corrected by their underlings, or in elections. (However, in 1979
Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini revised Iran's consitution to make
himself, the Shia Muslim Supreme Leader, a "Guardian Jurist," with
infallible dictatorial powers, same as the Confucian leader, which is
why Iran is unable to govern itself.)

Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:06 am
In 763 AD, the Tibetans captured and burned down China's western capital Chang'an (Xian), while the Uighurs advanced from the north. The union of the Tibetans and Uighurs would have conquered the Chinese, except that in 765 the Uighurs switched sides and allied with the Chinese. However, if there's a similar event in 2021 or 2020, I doubt that the Uighurs will feel so charitable this time.
A quick check of population has Tibet at 3 million, the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous region at 21 to 25 million, and China overall at 1.4 billion. Not sure how things stood in 736 AD, but today I anticipate the regions would be more inclined to struggle for independence than punish China.
John wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:06 am
The point is not that Mao was a Chinese or a Communist. Mao was insane, and the entire Great Leap Forward was insane. I'm not exaggerating when I call it one of the stupidest policies of any country in the history of the world. It killed tens of millions of innocent Chinese, and destroyed the economy for decades. The point is that the Chinese people cannot govern a worldwide empire because they can't even government themselves, as shown by the fact that nobody stopped his insane and unbelievably destructive policies.
You don’t need to convince me that autocratic government is bad, and Mao was worst than most. One part of the Great Leap Forward was the idea that a certain species of bird was bad. For a few years it became a patriotic duty to kill birds. They were quite fanatic about it, enthusiastic about the new Communist China. Lots of passionate zeal. It turns out the birds ate bugs. Result? Lots of bugs, not a lot of crops, and famine. This was exaggerated by elites not wanting to tell higher elites how bad it was, but the birds were already dead and would take years to recover.

I view it more as Mao going wild with stupid theories than insanity, trusting reds over experts, attempting to transform the culture too quickly, not as scientifically as he thought. What you suggest about checks on the leaders in Chinese culture has some validity, but Mao’s failures after replacing Chinese culture with Communist ‘scientific’ principles makes the interpretation dubious. China had done well early on in a dynasty and poorly late in a dynasty for quite some time. Mao got it backwards, failing out the gate. But Taiwan gives an example of how the culture can embrace the western approach.

I do see China struggling currently with the virus, flooding and the Australian coal fiasco. The leaders do seem to like brinksmanship. They aren’t exactly making friends. Maybe they are on the verge of needing help badly enough to lean more towards democracy than autocracy. Maybe they will do badly enough to force either revolution or severe protest about the role of elites. Not holding my breath on that. As bad as they are, they are big and stumbling along with a status quo.

Look at the US tendency for the conservatives to be not willing to upend the structure and solve problems. Then look at China and add an even worse autocracy. Ugh. Don’t renew and solve problems and the problems get worse. Eventually there is a crisis.

China might be a little behind the rest of the world time wise in the turnings. They dealt with a long failure time which might stretch from the opium wars to include the Great Leap Forward. From the turning theory perspective, they might be absurdly reluctant to enter another crisis bad time, to fight another revolution, to go back into chaos. Their last crisis period including revolution and great leaps might be a decade later than World War II. They might not fall apart just yet. On the other hand, they are overly enthusiastic about brinksmanship. Live on the edge long enough and you might find the edge giving away on you.

Not sure.

Bob Butler
Posts: 252
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:44 pm
That was really quite a speech that Trump gave, under the banner "Uncanceled America." The one thing that was missing that I was hoping for was some sort of plan to get around the Stalinist censorship and control of 74 million people that the Democrats have imposed, in league with the media and Big Tech as part of the Democrats' Forced Universal ompliance Operations Program (FUCOP). As I've said several times, this massive anti-constitutional censorship is the darkest time in America in my memory, and I was hoping to hear something about how it would end.
From my perspectives, the progressives are not censoring conservative thought. Like, this is predominately a conservative sight. Has anyone tried to pull your domain name or specify what you can publish? Stalin wiped out the private press and gave the state press a monopoly. What is going on now is hardly Stalinist. Sites like Fox continue to present their point of view. Of course if it includes stuff like defaming a voting machine company, they have to expect to be sued. They better have reporting and fact to support the allegation or they will have quite a penalty to pay. A bunch of Trump enablers are in the same boat.

Of course criminal attempts to coordinate violent activities are pushed off responsible platforms. Not applicable here. Quite acceptable and expected from my point of view.

Then too, sites like Fox can get fact checked to death. Trump loves to lie. If you believe Obama was born in Kenya, that Mexicans will pay for the wall, the virus is a hoax, or that there was fraud in the 2020 election, you are going to be fact checked out the kazoo and you better not defame anything that can sue.

You best not also put out junk suits with no merit. Two counties in Georgia had to defend against junk lawsuits trying to reverse their election results, and are suing to recover their legal fees. If Trump was something like 50 losses to 1 win, that would be a bunch of people trying to recover legal fees.

In short, your ideological bias is showing... Badly.

John
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 28-Feb-2021 World View: Censorship
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:39 pm
> From my perspectives, the progressives are not censoring
> conservative thought. Like, this is predominately a conservative
> sight. Has anyone tried to pull your domain name or specify what
> you can publish?
It's not something that I write about, but yes. This site is far from
completely safe.

More generally, funds supplied by Soros and other dark sources are
using private equity to buy up independent tech businesses to shut
down conservative sites.
Bob Butler wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:39 pm
> In short, your ideological bias is showing... Badly.
In short, you're still a complete idiot ... Badly.

Bob Butler
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:52 pm
It's not something that I write about, but yes. This site is far from completely safe.

More generally, funds supplied by Soros and other dark sources are using private equity to buy up independent tech businesses to shut down conservative sites.
Why don't you write about it? Why don't you post a source or reference? To me it is just your ideological bias showing, your imagination pretending that what you say matters. I value your site as worthless. Why would anyone pay good money to silence it? The war of the week is going to start Real Son Now! Any moment!. That is if everything doesn't collapse and a nuclear war start!

Seriously, who had disabled your domain name, IP address? If they did so, how am I making this post? Who has attempted censorship? Who thinks you are worth silencing enough to pay good money to do so?

This site is a joke. I have a real problem conceiving of a blue who would take it seriously. If someone is already buying into the lies, sure, but a blue?

John
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

** 28-Feb-2021 A joke

It's funny, you calling anyone but yourself a joke. I don't give
a shit whether you believe me or not. Do your own research.

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