Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Cycles

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:12 am
Thinking that current conditions represent a turn for the better, rather than worse, is the better choice if wisdom is the opposite of your goal. Broad social contract decreed by small groups of dogmatic, interconnected self-serving groups. A tale told before of great hardship, comrade.
I see it as more cyclic. A crisis addresses the greatest problem in the culture. Kings, colonial imperialism, slavery, and isolationism will stand as past examples. You get rid of them. At the same time, change is traumatic. Those who have lived through a crisis are not eager to go through another one. It is not until the folks who have lived through a crisis have died off that you are apt to see a crisis again. This is not my thought, but the core of S&H.

Thus, you get a three generation time of no change, followed by a time of change. Name calling those you disagree with will not change that.

This cycle might end if the culture has no great problem to solve. It is natural that the problems are more visible in urban areas, and that is where the push for change often comes from. There, seeing the government murder one’s family or die from Covid is more apparent. Population density increases the problems of the environment and infrastructure. In the best of worlds, the cycle would not exist. There would not be a stubborn insistance to see problems ignored followed by a mad scramble to solve them. There would be a steady level of effort.

But this is not the best of worlds.

Cool Breeze
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Cool Breeze »

FullMoon wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:12 am
Thinking that current conditions represent a turn for the better, rather than worse, is the better choice if wisdom is the opposite of your goal. Broad social contract decreed by small groups of dogmatic, interconnected self-serving groups. A tale told before of great hardship, comrade.
He tries to get me to respond to him all the time in this manner. He just likes attention. I found out long ago when I gave a multiplicity of answers for our positions here, he ignores them. Then later on acts like we don't respond to any of his stupid arguments, which aren't arguments, since they have no basis in fact, reality or any sane conclusion. Why? He comes to the conclusion then says words like "red" "blue" "racism", etc.

As you note, every single one of his positions is based on classical marxist, identity, politics. Not truth or reality.

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No Crisis This Time?

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:27 pm
Yeah, that was a totally BS interview. IIRC, he even intimated that due to technology, longer life-spans, etc, that it is possible the generational crisis cycle might be averted and not occur this time.
Before Covid and Floyd I was thinking the same as Neal. The crisis deals with the greatest flaw in the culture, and those might have already been confronted. Crises are solved without crisis wars in the Information Age? Could it be that the awakening would become the transformational time? Still, the stay the same faction tried to ignore a pandemic and structural racism. They brought things to a head. Something similar to a crisis seemed to be going on.

If Republican obstructionism prevents the Democratic policies from transforming the country, if China and the other major powers do not anticipate war as cost effective in a time of nukes, proxy war, insurgent war and non violent change, I might yet revert to a no successful crisis approach.

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Re: No Crisis This Time?

Post by thomasglee »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:20 am
thomasglee wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:27 pm
Yeah, that was a totally BS interview. IIRC, he even intimated that due to technology, longer life-spans, etc, that it is possible the generational crisis cycle might be averted and not occur this time.
Before Covid and Floyd I was thinking the same as Neal. The crisis deals with the greatest flaw in the culture, and those might have already been confronted. Crises are solved without crisis wars in the Information Age? Could it be that the awakening would become the transformational time? Still, the stay the same faction tried to ignore a pandemic and structural racism. They brought things to a head. Something similar to a crisis seemed to be going on.

If Republican obstructionism prevents the Democratic policies from transforming the country, if China and the other major powers do not anticipate war as cost effective in a time of nukes, proxy war, insurgent war and non violent change, I might yet revert to a no successful crisis approach.
It's funny that you still believe in the red vs. blue paradigm. It just shows how brainwashed you've become.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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Brainwashed?

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:58 am
It's funny that you still believe in the red vs. blue paradigm. It just shows how brainwashed you've become.
The Biden / Democratic agenda includes Covid, voting rights, the environment, and infrastructure. The Republicans in congress are blocking them. I consider this the Red rural no change against Blue urban change conflict which is still going on.

Admittedly, this site is focused more on other issues. There is an obsession with tribal thinking, a belief that prejudice, oppression and violence will put you ahead in spite of nukes, proxy wars and insurgent war. Containment is supposedly a vain strategy as tribal thinking is still strong.

We’d have to consider who is brainwashed, who is focused on stuff which is not happening. As long as the Democrats are advocating popular change over Republican obstruction, so long as major powers have not initiated war on one another recently, I consider my focus correct.

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Re: S&H as leftist weaklings.

Post by Cool Breeze »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:23 pm
To be conservative would mean advocating against solving today's problems
You never accurately state anything, which is why a dialogue with you is not only impossible, but a waste of time.

A conservative conserves what is proper according to what is good, true, honest and most of all, relevant to human organization and civilization. It is not someone who just conserves something that happened in the past, just because. If you even bother to reply to this, please think about what you are saying. People characterize arguments all the time like you do, and make claims that aren't at all reflective of said arguments, or, reality.

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Good, True and Honest?

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:30 pm
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:23 pm
To be conservative would mean advocating against solving today's problems
You never accurately state anything, which is why a dialogue with you is not only impossible, but a waste of time.

A conservative conserves what is proper according to what is good, true, honest and most of all, relevant to human organization and civilization. It is not someone who just conserves something that happened in the past, just because. If you even bother to reply to this, please think about what you are saying. People characterize arguments all the time like you do, and make claims that aren't at all reflective of said arguments, or, reality.
The major issues of the American Revolution were the privileged position of the nobility against equality and democracy, and against colonial imperialism. The major issues of the US Civil War were slavery and the prevention of growth and the Industrial Revolution. The major issues of FDR’s time were the government stepping in to regulate the economy as well as containment policy replacing isolationism. The current crisis initially centered on curing Covid and protesting to prevent structural racism.

How is taking the no change no solving the problem conservative side good, true, and honest? Yes, some people benefited from the old power structure. Those who gained from the old patterns would advocate against change. They would advocate for privileged nobility, colonial imperialism, slavery, etc…. In what way was this good, true and honest? In what way was colonial imperialism, slavery, dictators and Covid good, true and honest? The outcome of the Revolution, Civil War and FDR’s double crisis was celebrated by S&H for good reason.

Now this isn’t to say that all people on this site are advocating for Covid death and racism. They are more into tribal thinking. Mostly different, though tribal thinking involves a delusion of superiority, prejudice, oppression and violence. One could ask if these things are good true and honest.

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Re: S&H as leftist weaklings.

Post by thomasglee »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:30 pm
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:23 pm
To be conservative would mean advocating against solving today's problems
You never accurately state anything, which is why a dialogue with you is not only impossible, but a waste of time.

A conservative conserves what is proper according to what is good, true, honest and most of all, relevant to human organization and civilization. It is not someone who just conserves something that happened in the past, just because. If you even bother to reply to this, please think about what you are saying. People characterize arguments all the time like you do, and make claims that aren't at all reflective of said arguments, or, reality.
He is still stuck in the Red vs. Blue paradigm and does not realize how out of touch he is with reality.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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Re: S&H as leftist weaklings.

Post by Cool Breeze »

thomasglee wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:52 am
Cool Breeze wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:30 pm
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:23 pm
To be conservative would mean advocating against solving today's problems
You never accurately state anything, which is why a dialogue with you is not only impossible, but a waste of time.

A conservative conserves what is proper according to what is good, true, honest and most of all, relevant to human organization and civilization. It is not someone who just conserves something that happened in the past, just because. If you even bother to reply to this, please think about what you are saying. People characterize arguments all the time like you do, and make claims that aren't at all reflective of said arguments, or, reality.
He is still stuck in the Red vs. Blue paradigm and does not realize how out of touch he is with reality.
Indeed, the real power brokers have all the stooges believing in that "dichtomy" while they totally miss what's going on right underneath their silly little noses.

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Evasions

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:37 pm
thomasglee wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:52 am
He is still stuck in the Red vs. Blue paradigm and does not realize how out of touch he is with reality.
Indeed, the real power brokers have all the stooges believing in that "dichtomy" while they totally miss what's going on right underneath their silly little noses.
Already answered with no one here able to respond. In congress, the Republicans are fighting the popular Democratic agenda. Meanwhile, wars between major powers have not been fought in this time of nukes, insurgent wars, proxy wars and non-violent change. Clearly the red blue divide is far more active than the imaginary wars the people here are worried about.

Meanwhile, what is understood about the crisis issues of America? What are the primary issues of the US Revolution, US Civil War, FDR’s time or today? What issues are supposedly good, true and honest? While I have identified some of the usual suspects, what issues do others consider important? Non-extant wars? The Big Lie? How confused is the conservative viewpoint?

All I see are evasions, not attempts to explain what is really meant.

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