Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by John »

Saturday, January 28th, 2023.

this is a time of great danger for the United States, and I have moved back in the direction of thinking that America may not survive. The Biden administration and the Democrats have allied with George Soros, the Mexican cartels, and the Chinese communists to incite as much violence as possible in the United States, with the objective of inciting, a Marxist revolution and a new American Civil War. every one of Joe biden's policies, is geared to promoting violence, massacring blacks, allowing the Chinese Communists to infiltrate, and destroying the value of the dollar and the American economy. those are the Democrats motives, and why the antifa terrorist organization is being called into action by the Democrats at this time.

Butler should heed the saying. "be careful what you wish. for," because if his wish of a new civil War comes true, he will no longer get the medical services he needs and will not survive long.

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Bob Butler
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Spree Killers and Police Violence

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:55 pm
Saturday, January 28th, 2023.

this is a time of great danger for the United States, and I have moved back in the direction of thinking that America may not survive. The Biden administration and the Democrats have allied with George Soros, the Mexican cartels, and the Chinese communists to incite as much violence as possible in the United States, with the objective of inciting, a Marxist revolution and a new American Civil War. every one of Joe biden's policies, is geared to promoting violence, massacring blacks, allowing the Chinese Communists to infiltrate, and destroying the value of the dollar and the American economy. those are the Democrats motives, and why the antifa terrorist organization is being called into action by the Democrats at this time.

Butler should heed the saying. "be careful what you wish. for," because if his wish of a new civil War comes true, he will no longer get the medical services he needs and will not survive long.
Very imaginative, your alliance. I’ll try mine.

I see the Trump era alliance as between the white supremacists, the religious fanatics and the elite / corporations. There first two provide votes, the latter money. The racists are pleased that Trump encouraged displays of violence and prejudice. That continues today with people with assault rifles invading minority spaces and killing. Excessive police force has diminished since the BLM movement peaked, at least it had until Tyre. Excess police violence is not quite the same as the spree killings, but both have racism as a common thread. I agree with the local decision to dissolve the Scorpion squads. I expect most progressives would agree. I applaud the attempts to make such racist police actions a federal crime, but of course the Republicans blocked it. It is the conservatives that favor both the police and spree killings.

I would attack the drug cartels by legalizing drugs. You cannot prevent the people from getting what they want. The war on drugs is only creating opportunities for criminals to profit.

The CCP has lots of problems. One of the few things they have working right is the remnants of globalization. Much is manufactured in China to be sold in the west. It is one of the few sources of funding that they so desperately need just now. Yes, they talk tough. At the drop of a hat, they threaten violence. They are a little short on following up on their threats. With the exception of a few incidents with India, they are more into talking violence than actually doing it. Yes, Marx was occasionally right. There are times when revolution is the only way to get rid of the people being exploited. At this point, the CCP are doing far more exploitation than Taiwan. I really don’t see them pushing either police or spree killings here. They have much larger problems closer to home. I don’t see them whispering in the ears of spree killers or police union heads.

What Antifa organization? You used to become a member of Antifa by declaring yourself one. They exist now only as a red herring when conservatives wish to blame their own violence on the Democrats. Human males like a little ‘harmless’ violence. The January 6 violence has become harmful as they are persecuting the little fish. The conservatives have no monopoly on this love of violence. I suspect that a lot of the BLM era violence was just males being males. Antifa just provided an excuse for a few brawls. It is just the conservatives who went beyond having a little ‘fun’. Driving cars through protestors, spree shooters in minority hang outs and law officers murdering innocent minorities goes well beyond a little fun. If you want to return to the BLM protests, encouraging continued police murders would do it. The mood of the country hasn’t changed that much. It is just that keeping a racist president shifted the racist violent organizations such as the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers to another priority. They knew Trump would encourage their style of prejudice and violence.

Being convinced that others are subhuman, instigating an enhanced capability for hate and violence, is at the heart of Generational Dynamics. Is is good to be aware that it can happen, to be able to anticipate it in other cultures, but to wallow in that behavior in one’s own culture??? Racism is a classic manifestation of this trend. America has always been a place of white supremacy, but the demographics say this will soon end. This crisis is dealing with that issue, and in a crisis the conservatives do not come out on top. The problem is fixed.

I will hold to my prediction of three collapses: Putin, Xi and Trump. Collapse is what conservatives do at a crisis peak. I don’t consider these predictions astute or difficult, but in past crises the conservatives have fervently believed in such bad yet time honored practices as noble privilege, slavery and conquest. They are ready to die for the obsolete. I don’t really expect you to anticipate change before it has happened, but a crisis is exactly when a culture changes. Are prejudice and killing a feature of America, or a bug to be fixed? Anything to prevent the bug from being fixed? This includes your farce of a bogus analysis?

And I am in a nice safe blue state. I’m not worried about the medical system collapsing. Even the spree shooters and killer police have been quiescent.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Three Collapses

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:07 pm
John wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:55 pm
Saturday, January 28th, 2023

antifa is involved because that poster is from antifa, and is inciting widespread violence in New York City, none of which is "defensive."

do you even know what's going on? nobody is accusing antifa of killing Tyre Nichols. Tyree Nichols was killed by five black policemen, who are currently being charged with second degree murder.

if you're saying that antifa is a defensive organization, then I assume you must also believe that the ku Klux kluan in the last century was also a defensive organization by the Democrats, presumably lynching young black males and raping black girls in order to protect them from the "conservative" Republicans who had committed the crime of freeing the slaves.
I'm curious as to why the Antifa terrorist organization is being called into action right now. They were used effectively in 2020 and I thought this would happen next year. If these things continue or build, I suppose this spring will be quite eventful in the Pacific together with central Asia. Maybe it's something else, what other motives could be behind this?
Again, the Antifa name is being used by conservatives to blame the Democrats. Antifa is not in action now. They no longer exist save in conservative imaginations. A few young males do like violence, and it was possible to find a good brawl back then, but it is kind of hard to have a nice fistfight with spree killers and murderous cops. How do you find someone to brawl with? Today’s violence is different, and it is really hard to be where a defensive action will take place, to guess which minority safe place will be invaded and shot up, which bad cop will decide it is time to murder.

The motives behind this are the three collapses. Putin, Xi and Trump are all squirming to get out of bad decisions. I really don’t see how they will succeed. I don’t believe Trump’s legal problems are imaginary, and Putin and Xi are in no easier positions. Those three collapses are driving how the crisis will end.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Tom Mazanec »

I would attack the drug cartels by legalizing drugs. You cannot prevent the people from getting what they want. The war on drugs is only creating opportunities for criminals to profit.
How is this logic different from "I would attack the hitmen by legalizing hired killing. You cannot prevent people from getting what they want. The war on murder is only creating opportunities for criminals to profit." The criminal drugs are highly harmful to society.
BTW, the Trumps collapse is a postdiction, not a prediction.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

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Bob Butler
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Silly Questions

Post by Bob Butler »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:05 am
I would attack the drug cartels by legalizing drugs. You cannot prevent the people from getting what they want. The war on drugs is only creating opportunities for criminals to profit.
How is this logic different from "I would attack the hitmen by legalizing hired killing. You cannot prevent people from getting what they want. The war on murder is only creating opportunities for criminals to profit." The criminal drugs are highly harmful to society.
BTW, the Trumps collapse is a postdiction, not a prediction.
It is different as most people do not want murder. Depending on where you draw the line, all three collapses could be said to be already underway, but Trump is not yet in jail, Putin is still fighting in the Ukraine, and Xi still running the CCP. Doesn't mean any of the three are in good situations.

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Tom Mazanec
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Most people do not want to end up as what becomes of addicts either.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

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Bob Butler
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Drug Cartels

Post by Bob Butler »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:12 am
Most people do not want to end up as what becomes of addicts either.
Enough people want to acquire enough drugs that they have become addicts. The drug cartels have become a problem. It is not just the effects of the war on drugs, the need to become criminals to support habits, but the immigration problem is a good part due to wanting to flee cartel violence. Latinos have been fighting our war on drugs, become targets, and that creates a moral requirement that we consider asylum. Wake up. Drugs and the cartels that make them are a problem. Dealing with them the old way has gotten us into this mess. Some sort of change in approach is required.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

Tom Mazanec wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:12 am
Most people do not want to end up as what becomes of addicts either.
Tom, we don't create a "war on __" for some superficial moral reasoning. If they want to overeat, get fat and unhealthy and then clog up the healthcare system, that seems to be encouraged. It's life destroying and destructive. Drugs just make people have a temporary sense of happiness because societal life is so dreary. The crappier it gets the more people will want such temporary relief. Bob's mostly correct on this issue and it's perhaps the closest I've seen him to being somewhat correct. Because he keeps saying such foolish things completely unchained from basic facts.

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Memphis bad cops, California spree killings

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:28 pm
I've been watching coverage on both Fox News and CNN of the body cam video from the five black policemen who killed Tyre Nichols in Memphis earlier this month.

it had been feared that there would be massive street riots in cities across the country just as there were in the summer of 2020, but so far that hasn't happened, in the few smaller riots have fizzled out , at least so far.

All the media are describing the events depicted in the video as absolutely horrific, much worse than anything we've seen before. not only did the policemen beat and torture Tyre, leading to his death, but they joked about it with the paramedics who came to the scene. apparently, everyone involved in this, including the policeman. the paramedics and their various supervisors were all black, a fact which is confounding commentators.
For once I will agree with the bulk of John’s post, the third paragraph in particular.

As an aside, I was watching the MSNBC political news recently, and a prosecutor from Arizona made a specific distinction between GOP people and MAGA people. There are GOP people who may be strong on defense and want small government, and MAGA people who may be fascist and terrorists. As a Democrat, the prosecutor had many GOP people helping him win the recent election against a MAGA election denying opponent. This seems to be a valid observation. Republicans are pretty well divided. If some Republicans are trying to rescue the party, I would applaud anything like a GOP effort to oust the MAGA.

The violent bad cops of Memphis and elsewhere are similarly divided between the elected folks trying to develop trust between the police and the people and those who are trying to intimidate and use tremendous violence by police on civilians. I can see how John is seeing a similarity to African tribal violence. If you take a page from Generational Dynamics, you look at a group whether it be an African tribe or a group of Memphis locals, threat them as other, as scum, as the proper victim of violence. The divide is generally between the mayor and a few senior cops nominally in charge of a police force and on the other side the police unions and veteran police. You have formal coursework telling people how they can properly gain trust of the locals, countered back in the precinct by senior cops telling you how to intimidate, beat people, and get away with it. All the good done in the lecture halls is undone when you get back to the precinct.

I don’t know if John will find his tribal links, but he will certainly find Generational Dynamics others. If you see a bunch of people beating and killing others without remorse, look for Generational Dynamics others.

I do believe that a ghetto mindset exists. Some believe only pushers, mothers and sports stars can get ahead. There are pushers and criminals sure enough. There is a belief by the police union people that you can’t win against these people playing by the book, you have to beat the [expletive deleted] out of them. If people live in a certain area, they do just that. You can drag everybody into a classroom and lecture people not to do that, but they are absolutely sure they are doing the right thing. This belief is worldview strong. You would need a march to the sea or a nuke like incident to convince them that they are wrong. Just classroom lectures won’t do it. They will listen to the force veterans about their reality on the street and take that over the reforms of the mayors and police chiefs.

So I can see where the bad cops are coming from while deploring their actions as much as John does. And while it might be tempting to take the law into your own hands against someone deep in the ghetto mindset, decent people live in these areas too. You can’t just beat up everyone that lives in a certain area.

Personally, I’m with the reformers, for the federal police reform acts. Somehow this has become more than a little political. The Republicans have been against minorities and have been staunchly blocking letting the federal government put in an oar. In various areas, the violent police union people are dominant, and it is considered proper to beat people up. The establishment protects those who do the beating. You need an outside bunch of feds who will step in when the locals support a violent solution.

But that doesn’t answer Memphis. They are trying to diversify, they have elected their reform minded authority figures, they are implementing their training. Still, the beatings continue. The police violent mindset continues to dominate.

I don’t see the answer in defunding the police or more reform oriented lectures. If you could somehow identify and get rid of the senior cops who are passing on the violent mindset you might get somewhere. Easy said. You might try to be particularly watchful, to reprimand or fire cops for small offenses to prevent the big offenses. That is probably not enough, but it is a start.

There is one other titbit of note. The videos have the bad cops yelling ‘give me your hands’ as they show the hands already being controlled by the police. This is attempt to avoid guilt. You try to establish a reason for the violence when none actually exists. This is a trick passed on that any bad cop knows. I would establish that using this trick is an indication of guilt, that if you give an order while preventing the execution of that order you are guilty. Again, not a miracle cure, but it might help.

Another note. If a bad cop can use excessive violence at whim and expect to get away from it, why shouldn’t a spree shooter take an assault weapon into a minority safe place and do the same? You should not let Generational Dynamics hatred of the other develop in one’s own culture. One should be accepting of minorities, of those a little different. If one looks at the Memphis brutal cops and the recent string of California spree killings, think deeply on the principles of Generational Dynamics.

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Bob Butler
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Liberals as 'other'

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:53 pm
Tom Mazanec wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:12 am
Most people do not want to end up as what becomes of addicts either.
Tom, we don't create a "war on __" for some superficial moral reasoning. If they want to overeat, get fat and unhealthy and then clog up the healthcare system, that seems to be encouraged. It's life destroying and destructive. Drugs just make people have a temporary sense of happiness because societal life is so dreary. The crappier it gets the more people will want such temporary relief. Bob's mostly correct on this issue and it's perhaps the closest I've seen him to being somewhat correct. Because he keeps saying such foolish things completely unchained from basic facts.
Think on the ‘other’ idea from Generational Dynamics. When you decide some other group is ‘other’ you want to vilify and hate members of that group. You want to use violence against him. It matters not if they are Chinese at the Marco Polo bridge, the slaveholders during Lincoln’s time, or the spree shooter victims at minority clubs. If they are different, you create a reason to hate them, then it seems ok to hate them, at the extreme to use violence against them.

Consider liberals as a group of 'others'. You need a reason to hate them. It seems to be the basis of most of those absurd conspiracy theories. It is a satanist doctrine. Oh, they are just eating babies like they always do. If you make up absurd and false theories for liberal motivation, you do not understand their true motivations.

For example liberals are for freedom, for choice. You do not force behaviors on anyone. Another example is they want to help people. They will push domestic spending in attempts to make life better. These are not exotic or hard to understand ideas. They are just not useful if you are trying to turn them into the 'other'. It is much easier to hate baby eating satan worshipers than freedom loving folk who want to help people. Therefore you assume the worst and take the easy path to hate.

Take abortion. A religious fanatic wants to preserve something that might grow into sentience. Pro choice people want to be able to make decisions on their own, and do not see a fetus as sentient, as not to be killed. Both motivations are understandable. The opposite of each group treating the other as 'other' is to understand them but disagree. A liberal operating on the concept of freedom would not let one group impose on the other.

Or take the Memphis bad cops. You could vilify them as morally corrupt people who deserved to be hated as the 'other'. Alternately you could try to understand them. Understanding why they treat the locals as the Generational Dynamics 'other' may show a little bit of sympathy, but if you understand the problem you have some hope of solving it.

Anyway, if you persistently attribute bogus motivations to liberals, if you choose to believe the QAnon conspiracies and Fox News lies to turn them into Generational Dynamics 'other' characters, you will never understand them. Why you see me as saying foolish things unchained from basic facts is your problem, your insistence on treating me as a Generational Dynamics 'other,' your inability to sidestep into an alternate what if understanding of the 'other' guy's position, your lack of understanding of liberal worldviews. Oh, he is just a baby eating satan worshipper is just a more convenient way to hate.

Lately I have been dealing with different issues, and perhaps integrated Generational Dynamics a bit better with my worldview. The 'other' is a concept which has to be fully understood and used. You have to understand why you should not advocate the concept of 'other' into your own culture.

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