Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

[Bob Butler]

I am praying that Trump runs in 2024.

I’d kind of like to see him run too. The MAGA crowd still dominates the conservatives, but the Big Lie people they have been nominating lately have not been doing well. Trump lost last time, before the insurrection, election meddling, fake electors, etc… I think he has collected enough baggage to loose again. Plus, the progressives are passing popular bills.

The Republicans have got to shed the MAGA crowd in order to start winning. I’m just not sure they can do it by 2024.

[spottybrowncow]

Bob, you live on a different planet from everyone else on this forum.

[thomasglee]

Bob, you live on a different planet from everyone else on this forum.

He lives in his own mind, his own bubble of fantasy.

[Bob Butler]

Bob, you live on a different planet from everyone else on this forum.

He lives in his own mind, his own bubble of fantasy.

We will see who is dominated by fantastic thinking as the mid terms shake out. I'm just seeing what McConnell has been saying. There are more progressives. The quality of the candidate counts. Those that profess to believe the Big Lie lack quality. The conservatives are divided between those who want Trump and those who don't. Right now, you have to be with Trump to win in the Republican primaries, but except in the most rural areas you then lose in the general election.

Basically, are you willing to ride with Dr Oz? If so, I have a miracle pill to sell you.

The way the Jan 6 committee and the various investigations are going, Trump will be in far worse shape by 2024. But if you get all your news from conservative sources, you won't see it until it is too late.

Based on what S&H said about turnings, the conservatives will find a flaw in the crisis platform of the progressives and make a comeback in the high. KKK anyone? But we have to go through a never again phase first. The major domestic lesson learned should be to not let big lies spread through social media. The problem is that too many are too ready to believe what they want to believe. Use the power of the government to enforce religious and moral beliefs? Continue the long crusade of prejudice? Act as if government is a tool to let one gather power rather than a tool to help the people? Ignore science when it conflicts with short term profits?

Through the long unravelling the advantage seemed to follow those with lots of money. Through the key years of crisis, the stakes have gotten higher. More have been able to see it. Some have not.

[Cool Breeze]

Basically, are you willing to ride with Dr Oz? If so, I have a miracle pill to sell you.

The classic american decline conundrum of garbage politicians. We have a stroked out guy who looks like a demon, supporting the worst policies and anti-american in his being, against a media charlatan slickster akin to the traitorous Romney. How do you get worse than Oz? Support the blue guy, with both no brain and a corrupt soul

It's amazing you are that corrupt yourself to not see how pathetic your worldview is

[Bob Butler]

Basically, are you willing to ride with Dr Oz? If so, I have a miracle pill to sell you.

The classic american decline conundrum of garbage politicians. We have a stroked out guy who looks like a demon, supporting the worst policies and anti-american in his being, against a media charlatan slickster akin to the traitorous Romney. How do you get worse than Oz? Support the blue guy, with both no brain and a corrupt soul

It's amazing you are that corrupt yourself to not see how pathetic your worldview is

Naturally I am equally unsympathetic.

I must admit to being amused by one Lincoln Project ad. They spliced together various clips from the classic movie, with Dorothy refusing to ignore the man behind the curtain and calling said man a horrible person who lied and broke his promises. I wound up with an image of Trump on his broomstick skywriting a surrender threat against democracy.

But what do conservatives stand for domestically? Using the government to enforce religion? Insurgency? Attacking law and order? Being a Putin friend? Prejudice? Calling people names? Certainly you stand for something positive.

[John]

Monday August 22nd 2022

Bob butler: "But what do conservatives stand for domestically? Using the government to enforce religion? Insurgency? Attacking law and order? Being a Putin friend? Prejudice? Calling people names? Certainly you stand for something positive."

the reason that you're so completely baffled by what conservatives stand for domestically is because your mind is so deeply invested and left-wing thinking that you're incapable of empathizing with any other way of looking at the world.

using the government to enforce religion? do you have any idea how foreign that concept is to conservative thinking?

it's left wingers who want to regulate religion, not right winners. right wingers support freedom of religion. but left wingers are completely confused about religion. they like some forms of Christianity but hate Evangelical Christianity. many left wingers hate israel, and so they hate judaism. many left wingers hate islam, except when not doing so is convenient.

the left wing way of thinking is that if you see a problem you should send in the government to fix it, usually making the problem worse. that's why you're so baffled by the conservative way of thinking when a conservative sees a problem, he says leave it alone if possible, and let it fix itself and only intervene if absolutely necessary.

inflation is a good example. right wingers want inflation to largely fix itself. left wingers do crazy things, like past massive tax and spend legislation that makes inflation much worse.

and interesting example is elimination of fossil fuels. if you look at my original generational Dynamics book from 2003, you'll see that there's a chapter on technological forecasting. and that chapter as I recall I wrote a lot about forecasting energy use. the point is that the government can do absolutely nothing to affect the use of fossil fuels in the future. fossil fuel usage will rise or fall according to a fairly well defined exponential curve, and nothing the government does will change that.

so that sets up the standard left wing path to dictatorship. conservatives are willing to let market forces determine how long fossil fuels will be used. but left wing socialist see this is an opportunity to impose all sorts of controls, and when the controls don't work, to impose dictatorial controls.

in America today, this is going so far the Democrats are attempting one thing after another to prevent Trump from influencing the 2022 elections. Trump supporters are being routinely described as domestic terrorists, extremist, evil, and so forth when in fact it's the Democrats for turning into domestic terrorists, extremists, and evil. we are at a very dangerous time in America right now, and we can only hope that the brilliance of the American constitutional form of government will save us once more from the Democrats and the communists.

as an example of the insanity of left wingers, go back and read your Trump on a broomstick fantasy.

[Cool Breeze]

But what do conservatives stand for domestically? Using the government to enforce religion? Insurgency? Attacking law and order? Being a Putin friend? Prejudice? Calling people names? Certainly you stand for something positive.

The Constitution. Small government, as in the Constitution. Freedom, as a result.

Telling the truth. You should try it for once, it's quite liberating.

There's a list of pretty important things. All of which you deny. Shall I count the ways?

And you claim I don't stand for anything. Why, that's because you don't even believe in truth, so why should you care about lies?

[Cool Breeze]

as an example of the insanity of left wingers, go back and read your Trump on a broomstick fantasy.

I often wonder what his brain does when he reads all those examples that are so clearly true and the case. What I propose is that his brain reads the words and understands them, but his soul trumps the truth because he wants to believe the lie. That's most people sadly. Ego preservation for a lot of people, or prostitution (money to look the other way). A common tactic of the left since they have no principle. Hey, vote for us and we'll give you a bit of money for all of this power! Oh, thanks, clown, now we control more and more and freedoms are nullified, perfect for our continued gargantuan growth and power mongering.

Live not by lies, Bob

[Bob Butler]

Thank you for a serious response John, though I can flip the idea that I am locked into a certain perspective on things. So aren’t we all? We all have a mindset / perspective / worldview. In some cases this does not allow one to see the obvious.

America has be racist for a long time. Many blacks came in slave ships. Many native lands were stolen. Many asian men helped build railroads, but women were blocked from immigrating. Irish famously need not apply. There were pogroms in eastern Europe, a potato famine in Ireland, failed revolutions aplenty, and warlord government in Asia. In general, people came to America in spite of the racism because it was worse in various ways where they came from. This bred contempt among many who came before, and this contempt bred racism.

This was all before this site’s posters were born. If things were once bad, well, slaves were freed, women got the vote, the Civil Rights Bill was passed, and so much more has been done. And yet, the pattern I see is that conservatives want things to stay the same, where progressives see a problem to be solved. The remnants of racism are inherently conservative. The problems that rose in the early Trump years included Black Lives Matter. George Floyd was part of a pattern of racist bad cops abusing their power. Individuals and groups would drive through protests or take an assault weapon to a gathering of minorities. This was an improvement over slavery, or even restaurants refusing service to minorities, but getting rid of racism is a long hard climb not yet complete. And while by no means all conservatives were involved in such things, and this site is not one where racists rants are welcome, racism is inherently aligned with conservatism.

Yes, racism is a bad thing. Yes we would be a better country for getting over it. No, it will not be easy.

Israel has a problem. They want more Jewish votes than Palestinian votes. The policies to achieve this are racist. The US backs Israel. As a result lots of US tax dollars go into backing Israel’s racist policies. This make me dislike and on occasionally speak poorly of Israel. This does not in any way make me wish to dissuade Jews from worshipping God as they see fit or be part of any racist oppression. I also don’t mind at all Evangelicals gathering to worship God as they seem fit. I sometimes describe myself as a devout agnostic. I would spend my time and energy in other ways. Still, freedom of religion, huzza. It seems possible to draw a line between Israel’s problematic policies which can be criticized and recognizing Jews, Evangelicals, Muslims, Asians or other minorities as generally being good neighbors.

One of the ideas in Thoreau’s Civil Disobedience is that it is not one’s duty to correct every wrong one encounters. That is well. Changing values is nigh on impossible. However, Thoreau suggested it is one’s duty to not be part of any wrongs. Thus, it is not my duty to correct Israel’s policies, just as well, but it is my duty not to be racist agains Jews, Muslims, Evangelicals, etc… While not all progressives would quote Thoreau, I feel most feel the same in other ways. Minority cultures are accepted. Everybody now can get green beer on St. Patrick’s Day. In these parts, each town has a Chinese restaurant. We don’t go around killing minorities as a few extremist conservatives do, but accept their diversity.

Thus, I reject any suggestion that because one might find a few racist progressive it is inherently a progressive trait. Progressives are more apt to free the slaves, give woman the vote, fight the conservative killers or otherwise fix what is obviously broken. Conservatives, by preference, would rather continue with things as they always have been, to leave racist policies in place.

Not that racism is a big thing on this site, but it is a case of seeing things from a conservative perspective leaves you unable to see certain things.

Another issue mixes Evangelicals, abortion and law. Not just Evangelicals, but they are a bit militant about what many believe. Again, I have no trouble with their worshipping God as they see fit, and following their own conscience. However, racism has oppressors as well as oppressed. America has been a white Protestant country. They see it right to impose their white Protestant ethics, worldview, moral beliefs, culture, whatever on other cultures. They wish to use the government to force their culture on others who do not share their beliefs. Supposedly this is not a big conservative thing. Generally conservatives lean towards minimal government. This issue might be considered an exception. I can just say they use every trick in the book to pursue the exception. These days you have to have both the presidency and the senate to appoint a Supreme Court justice, and the Court is not shy about ignoring precedence or legislating from the bench. Imposing their culture on a majority who do not share different values is deemed more important.

Regulating the economy was one of the big changes of FDR’s time. Job creation. Social Security. Tax policies. It works. Both parties have been doing it for decades. Using regulation to address the problematic fossil fuel problem has worked too. Take the recent Biden reduction of inflation by releasing fuel from the oil reserve as an example. Yes, conservatives do not like to solve problems, especially when doing so effects their short term profits. Progressives see the problem sooner and try to solve it. Keep your eyes closed if you must. It may be that it four score and seven years, your ideas will not be seen as just quaint, but as dangerous.