Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:25 pm
The argument has never been made that group X is more advanced in every way than group Y. It's just bizarre that all groups want to go to European civilizations, regardless, if it means so little.

I don't care much about this except for that it's just obvious truth and confirmed by everyone's real desires and footsteps, how they actually vote or live life - their actions, not what they say.

For the materialist, this is clearly the case. Every human is made in the image of God, so whether they are advanced in particular ways is meaningful only in so much as they use their talents for the glory of God. As western nations stand, materialism and atheism have run amok, so they are now accursed, having once been blessed. Notice that this pretty much only occurred after the leftists came and destroyed the native population, slowly, but surely. The lazy, old generations didn't keep vigilant. What's funny is now they blame younger generations for their errors or lack of discipline, principle.
Let’s say that ‘advanced’ to me means the ability for one culture to dominate, oppress and colonize another culture. This is a [expletive deleted] poor definition of ‘advanced’. It suggests tribal thinking is the admirable norm, that it is one’s proper goal to dominate, oppress and colonize other people. This is hard to assume, but then Diamond attempts to reject the tribal thinking meme. There are reasons other than racial genetic superiority why western cultures came to dominate.

My own perspective is that tribal thinking was natural and cost effective in the Agricultural Age. Each S&H crisis is won by a progressive faction which removes one or more aspects of tribal thinking. Kings, colonial imperialism, slaves, and isolationism are among the factors of tribal thinking removed. Racism, a belief in superior genes by certain groups, is one of these factors which Diamond effectively rebuts.

How people actually vote and live is progressive. Historically, the progressive faction of any given crisis comes out ahead. Obvious flaws are removed. It is progressives that remove conservative ‘as it has always been’ flaws. Your attempts to blame the progressives who attempt to remove flaws for the flaws is absurd, indicates a total lack of understanding history.

It is obvious that certain believers in God believe man is made in His image. It is not obvious that this is true. I may be just a delusion. Who has seen God? Who can claim to know what he chose to look like at that moment? Can He shape shift, choose to look as He pleases? Do you bear a startling resemblance to the burning bush Moses saw and as the always truthful Bible reports? Your certainties are just delusion.

Now I don’t blame the younger generations. That is you. Still, the current civics are not living up to the S&H prophecy that the civics redefine the culture. Will the young people eventually live up to the prophecy? Will they become a force that establishes that disease should be cured, that racism should be put to bed, that infrastructure should be maintained, that the environment should be protected? At the moment, it does not seem clear. Will I be disappointed if the do nothing faction continues the existing trend? Yes. Will it go in forever? I hope not.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:37 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:48 pm
I've asked it before but we should return to the subject. How many more years have to pass before anyone here (whoever wants to answer) will be shocked that nothing HUGE (crisis war) has happened?
The concept involved is worth answering although the phrasing of the question is....
When the march is away from rather than towards war. Culturally, socially and between nations. I bet most people have the experience of increasing conflict, stress and difficulty. When the stress level goes down rather than up. We could still be waiting for a while but probably not.
The United States has become reluctant to put boots on the ground since Bush 43's wars. The predicted reluctance generated by a crisis war to enter another conflict has occurred. This is not to say Bush 43's wars were crisis wars, but they did seem to generate the anticipated reluctance to enter conflict. This is not to say deterrence of expansionist threats have been abandoned. If somebody else tries to use violence to expand, we could easily be drawn in.

One big question is whether China's habit of brinksmanship and bluff could expand to something real. Do they really think they can gain more through conflict than through financial games? Is the failure of their coal games with Australia and other Chinese financial problems apt to make them desperate, or does the financial stress make this not the time? Is it in their perceived interest to keep attention on things other than their environment and economy?

The other question is Russia's expansion. Have the economic sanctions had their desired effect in deterring expansionism? It seems so for the moment.

Autocratic government tends to favor the elites over the people. As such, they are arguably living on borrowed time. Extending that borrowed time ought to be a rational goal. However, a large scale conflict would not be. That is not to say an autocratic leader might jump, rationally or not.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by thomasglee »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:58 pm
FullMoon wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:37 pm
Cool Breeze wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:48 pm
I've asked it before but we should return to the subject. How many more years have to pass before anyone here (whoever wants to answer) will be shocked that nothing HUGE (crisis war) has happened?
Autocratic government tends to favor the elites over the people. As such, they are arguably living on borrowed time. Extending that borrowed time ought to be a rational goal. However, a large scale conflict would not be. That is not to say an autocratic leader might jump, rationally or not.
So, are you finally going to admit WE are living under an autocratic government that favors the elites over the people?
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:06 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:58 pm

Autocratic government tends to favor the elites over the people. As such, they are arguably living on borrowed time. Extending that borrowed time ought to be a rational goal. However, a large scale conflict would not be. That is not to say an autocratic leader might jump, rationally or not.
So, are you finally going to admit WE are living under an autocratic government that favors the elites over the people?
I would describe the US as a democracy rather than autocratic, but, yes to some extent. The Republican Party has long favored the owners of the means of production, favoring the elites. The Democratic Party has long supported labor, minorities, the People. There has been a struggle. There has not been a clear victory by either side, though it seems like we are in a crisis in the S&H sense where progressive thought has prevailed for a time.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by thomasglee »

Bob Butler wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:41 am
thomasglee wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:06 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:58 pm

Autocratic government tends to favor the elites over the people. As such, they are arguably living on borrowed time. Extending that borrowed time ought to be a rational goal. However, a large scale conflict would not be. That is not to say an autocratic leader might jump, rationally or not.
So, are you finally going to admit WE are living under an autocratic government that favors the elites over the people?
I would describe the US as a democracy rather than autocratic, but, yes to some extent. The Republican Party has long favored the owners of the means of production, favoring the elites. The Democratic Party has long supported labor, minorities, the People. There has been a struggle. There has not been a clear victory by either side, though it seems like we are in a crisis in the S&H sense where progressive thought has prevailed for a time.
There you go again... You cannot admit the Red/Blue paradigm is nothing but a means meant to divide.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Cool Breeze »

thomasglee wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:41 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:41 am
thomasglee wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:06 am


So, are you finally going to admit WE are living under an autocratic government that favors the elites over the people?
I would describe the US as a democracy rather than autocratic, but, yes to some extent. The Republican Party has long favored the owners of the means of production, favoring the elites. The Democratic Party has long supported labor, minorities, the People. There has been a struggle. There has not been a clear victory by either side, though it seems like we are in a crisis in the S&H sense where progressive thought has prevailed for a time.
There you go again... You cannot admit the Red/Blue paradigm is nothing but a means meant to divide.
It's the classic example, yet again, of why you can't even bother with such people. They suck you into a vortex of lies, over and over. John already showed him long ago, at least 3x, how everything he says (regarding political parties) is wrong and attributed to the wrong people and ideas. I showed him on countless occasions how his belief system is wrong on the basis of strict evidence. As a result, there is nothing to do but shrug your shoulders and ignore the bish. I've met these people many times in real life and they'll call you things like racist and then when you say that is a religious belief of theirs and unfalsifiable (though they use the word "science" all the time), and ask them, how can I show you or present to you that I am not that? They freeze an have no answer because they came to that conclusions based on nothing but lies and the stupid marxist power struggle. That's how they are on every one of their topics, because they can only use lies, emotion and deception. Why? They are losers and can't actually get anything done themselves, or are too lazy to, or both. So they have to steal indirectly from others via other people's (strong men's) force and lies. Yet they talk about tribalism and loving the people. It's a hoot!

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Cool Breeze »

Jack Edwards wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:22 am
All that aside, I think John's opinion that the timing for CCP initiating war will be from some random event is likely, plans are nice, but emotion rules the day.
Regards,
Jack
Likely true. And yet another thing that swamp creatures like bish have in common with the CCP - lashing out from their far too high levels of estrogen, when things don't go the way they think they should.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Cool Breeze »

You have unfalsifiable/religious type thinking, which is the ultimate of ironies. I've encountered NPCs like you in real life. No matter what, you call people racist or tribal - and when asked what evidence would be acceptable to make you change your belief (this is the scientific method), you freeze because you are actually the tribal one, you just are so deluded you don't see it, or want to, because it would destroy your myth. No NPC has ever been able to respond with a criterion that would change their mind, so I know they are totally full of dookie. It's been 100% and you also show this behavior. All one needs to know is that people like you, the NPC, believe others are (insert pejorative in your mind) but the Fidel Castros of the world are "for the people." There is no hope for you sadly, since you neither employ logic, honesty, or any other virtue in your approach to the world. Just power struggles.

Guest

Re: Defining and Redefing a Discussion.

Post by Guest »

Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:30 pm
Guest wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:34 pm
I don't agree that the Euros are more advanced in all areas.

Consider "Attachment to their natural surroundings and natural life" or any other number of chosen categories that don't emphasize the values of Faustian Civilization.
There are certainly lots of ways to define 'advanced'. They certainly don't all agree with one another. The relevant definition to this conversation is whether racial genetic superiority or the factors mentioned in Guns, Germs and Steel (weapons, competition, longitudinal corridors and disease immunities) are more relevant. Other definitions may be pertinent to something, but don't relate to what we are discussing.
In making the previous two Guest posts, I bypassed this question because it is unequivocal in my mind that racial genetic superiority is more relevant to the conversation that you were having. Though I should say that I haven't read Diamond's arguments in detail because they seem silly on their face. If you'd like, I can read them in detail and comment on them. It would help if you could give me the pages in the book that I should read.

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A Real Divide

Post by Bob Butler »

thomasglee wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:41 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:41 am
thomasglee wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:06 am


So, are you finally going to admit WE are living under an autocratic government that favors the elites over the people?
I would describe the US as a democracy rather than autocratic, but, yes to some extent. The Republican Party has long favored the owners of the means of production, favoring the elites. The Democratic Party has long supported labor, minorities, the People. There has been a struggle. There has not been a clear victory by either side, though it seems like we are in a crisis in the S&H sense where progressive thought has prevailed for a time.
There you go again... You cannot admit the Red/Blue paradigm is nothing but a means meant to divide.
The two sides want different things. The difference depends on a very real conflict of interest. It is not an invented division, but a very real one, as you indicated in your original post. The elites with the racists are struggling with the people, with the government being the battle ground.

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