Abortion

[Bob Butler]

You're obviously having trouble processing basic information. Once again, I will go through this step by step, very slowly...

You obviously aren’t into quantum theory or parapsychology. Hardly a surprise. Either is rather rare, not called for in every day life. The theory was presented that you be aware how other factors came to shape my views on God and medieval superstitions. If it went too far over your head to comprehend rationally, sorry.

But Langan’s supposition is that if I hypothesize a theory by which God is not necessary tor the impression of mind over matter, this is supposedly a proof that God exists. No. If you create a theory that assumes God exists, it is easy to prove that according to that theory God exists. I am willing to admit that CTMU is self consistent. I am not willing to accept it as the only self consistent theory of knowledge.

We learn. You have to accept that as we learn we must give up on what we believed earlier. Currently, in astrophysics, we are searching for a lot of antimatter which should be around somewhere. When and if we find it, we will likely have to adjust our theories. The supposition that all theories are tautologies, are inherently true, is just not useful.

This reminds me a discussion involving the debate between Newton and Bishop Barkley. Newton pretty much defined modern science with Principea Mathematica. Barkley put his mind games ahead of the study of the universe. I was with Newton then, and still am.

You are telling women what to do with their bodies, thus telling others what to do in their house. The government is not supposed to force one group’s religion on others.

[Bob Butler]

Oh, but you are, privileged white male...

Oh, maybe I am, but I don't consider sharing my privilege with others dangerous.

[Higgenbotham]

There's another thing I can think to add to this discussion which is somewhat related.

A few years after my mother died, my father filled out one of those forms that said he didn't want his life artificially prolonged by feeding tubes, ventilator, etc. He gave medical power of attorney to his second wife and he gave me power of attorney. Everyone affected got a copy of all the forms.

Eleven years after that, and a few years before covid, he came down with the flu and his condition worsened rapidly. His second wife took him to the hospital (he consented to that) and she went ahead and allowed him to be put on a ventilator and feeding tubes, against his wishes. He was conscious enough to try to rip the tubes out and he was restrained, according to what I was told later.

When I got to the hospital I saw this and knew this was done against his wishes. At that time, I assessed the situation. His second wife was devastated. She hadn't left his side and was not doing well at all. We went out into the parking lot briefly. She told me she had medical power of attorney and had made the decision to keep him alive. I told her I would support whatever decision she made about his medical care. When we returned to his room, I made it clear to the nurse that she had medical power of attorney and that I would support whatever decision she made regarding my father's care. While I did not agree with what she did, I understood why she did it and didn't voice my opposition.

She had the power to make that decision, plain and simple.

Likewise, the Supreme Court had the power to overturn Roe v Wade, plain and simple.

[Bob Butler]

Likewise, the Supreme Court had the power to overturn Roe v Wade, plain and simple.

And may regret it. The Republicans have not won an election involving abortion since. If the Democrats make it an issue and claim the women's votes, you get two of the three branches of government in progressive hands. Roe will be codified. A voting rights bill will forbid the gerrymandering that the Republicans have been using to cling to power. The conservative collapse which regularly occurs in every S&H crisis will be on.

[Higgenbotham]

You're obviously having trouble processing basic information. Once again, I will go through this step by step, very slowly...

You obviously aren’t into quantum theory or parapsychology. Hardly a surprise. Either is rather rare, not called for in every day life. The theory was presented that you be aware how other factors came to shape my views on God and medieval superstitions. If it went too far over your head to comprehend rationally, sorry.

I took Physical Chemistry 469 with LS Bartell at The University of Michigan and got a solid A in it. That's a Quantum Chemistry course. That's as far as it went. Bartell worked on the Manhattan Project.

What you posted sounded like a bunch of unrelated word salad. But, hey, feel free to draw your own conclusions and your own lines.

This is a common refrain of liberals.

See that guy over there? He just doesn't understand the science! It is way over his head!

Bob Butler talking about quantum theory to justify abortion.

"Don't be wowed."

[Bob Butler]

It is obvious that Bartel didn’t teach you much. It did go over your head. As far as I can tell, total lack of understanding.

And, yes. If science is involved in a new problem, conservatives will refuse to acknowledge the problem, are against solving it. They want everything to stay the same.

One interesting thing in recent posts. You have a poll showing most Americans believe in or favor a lot of traditional religious aspects. And yet, most are willing to vote for abortions. Do people believe they can go to heaven after they had an abortion? The logic of it would of course vary, but would be interesting.

[Higgenbotham]

It is obvious that Bartel didn’t teach you much. It did go over your head. As far as I can tell, total lack of understanding.

And, yes. If science is involved in a new problem, conservatives will refuse to acknowledge the problem, are against solving it. They want everything to stay the same.

One interesting thing in recent posts. You have a poll showing most Americans believe in or favor a lot of traditional religious aspects. And yet, most are willing to vote for abortions. Do people believe they can go to heaven after they had an abortion? The logic of it would of course vary, but would be interesting.

They believe in hell because they know that's a place where you can still get abortions and they want their abortions.

[Higgenbotham]

You obviously aren’t into quantum theory or parapsychology. Hardly a surprise. Either is rather rare, not called for in every day life. The theory was presented that you be aware how other factors came to shape my views on God and medieval superstitions. If it went too far over your head to comprehend rationally, sorry.

But Langan’s supposition is that if I hypothesize a theory by which God is not necessary tor the impression of mind over matter, this is supposedly a proof that God exists. No. If you create a theory that assumes God exists, it is easy to prove that according to that theory God exists. I am willing to admit that CTMU is self consistent. I am not willing to accept it as the only self consistent theory of knowledge.

We learn. You have to accept that as we learn we must give up on what we believed earlier. Currently, in astrophysics, we are searching for a lot of antimatter which should be around somewhere. When and if we find it, we will likely have to adjust our theories. The supposition that all theories are tautologies, are inherently true, is just not useful.

This reminds me a discussion involving the debate between Newton and Bishop Barkley. Newton pretty much defined modern science with Principea Mathematica. Barkley put his mind games ahead of the study of the universe. I was with Newton then, and still am.

You are telling women what to do with their bodies, thus telling others what to do in their house. The government is not supposed to force one group’s religion on others.

Let's just examine this one underlined sentence.

Do you really think I'm going to waste my time going to Langan's theory to find out if he really said that?

No, I am not.

The first reason, as you know, is because I don't have any interest in what he said.

The second reason is that there is a very high probability, based on your post history, that he didn't say exactly that and you are putting your own spin on it. That's the reason you didn't quote him word for word.

Just like you put your own bizarre spin on what Strauss and Howe say without quoting them either. Then when I do, you say they didn't really mean it.

After that, you told me, "Read Strauss and Howe," as if I haven't.

[Higgenbotham]

I tried many traditional religions seeking the answer: Catholicism, Born Again, Neo Pagan and Taoism were among them. None provided a clear answer, although there were plenty of incidents where suspension of physics in either past myth or present day life was suggested.

It doesn't sound like your ever took religion seriously. It sounds like you were looking for a religion that approved of your lifestyle. The mainstream religions require discipline and self-control, restraint. You don't seem to have any. Most of the people I have encountered that are "looking for answers" are, to be honest, sexual deviants.

I've found that those who more and more shrilly insist as time goes on that God doesn't exist are sexual deviants, and perhaps more.

The best example was a tenant who picked up a homeless woman 32 years younger than him and her 2 pre-pubescent daughters. It was found that he was raping the girls, aged 11 and 12. During the war, he had been given young girls in China and also talked of finishing the injured off with bullets, though he never claimed direct responsibility; he just said it happened. He eventually married this younger woman so she could get his military pension. He told both her and me that he had $40,000 cash in a safe deposit box down in Alabama that would be hers when he died. After he died and she went down to get the money, I asked her if she got the cash. She said there was no cash in the box and told me all that was in the box was nude pictures of women.

I discussed him previously in the Dark Age Hovel:

He married a woman 32 years younger than him after he had his stroke. She got his military benefits when he died and took care of him until he died. He bought her a trailer and she lived in a trailer park a couple miles away. So, yeah, he was lonely and instead of mailing me the rent check he liked for me to come over and talk for awhile. I never thought about it at the time but sitting around partly immobilized and going over all those horrors in your mind would be a hell of a way to go.

This guy was very insistent that God didn't exist. This was to the extent that he sought people out who also believed that God didn't exist and arranged for me to meet them. His favorite way to express that was, "When you're dead, you're dead." Also, more than once, about his experiences on the battlefield, he said, "I'd see a head laying over here, an arm laying over there, and I would think to myself how can there be a God?" I think he believed and repeatedly articulated that because he had killed people.

He had also raped his 12 and 13 year old stepdaughters. When he was arrested, he called me from jail and asked me to bail him out. He ended up being convicted and was in jail for a few months, then returned to the house. He saw nothing wrong with raping the girls (the Chinese had supplied him with underage girls during the war) and he constantly complained about what a bitch his PO was and even said once he could kill one of the girls for opening her mouth.

So, people like this exist, I've met a few of them, and they will be quite active if law and order break down. Some people may wish to believe they don't exist, but wishing it isn't so doesn't change the fact that it is.

In addition to his favorite phrases about God not existing, he also like to say, "Revenge, how sweet it is!"

[Guest]

Oh, but you are, privileged white male...

Oh, maybe I am, but I don't consider sharing my privilege with others dangerous.

Ah, delusion. Your self-delusion won't protect you from physical attack by your golems.