9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
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Tom Mazanec
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by Tom Mazanec »

What if it turns out that there is no technological solution? Some very smart people say that there isn't.
Rome had a barbarian problem. It became so bad that a solution had to be found for civilization to continue.
No solution was found. It would be a millennium before the Renaissance finally came.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

Tom Mazanec wrote:What if it turns out that there is no technological solution? Some very smart people say that there isn't.
Rome had a barbarian problem. It became so bad that a solution had to be found for civilization to continue.
No solution was found. It would be a millennium before the Renaissance finally came.
"A" civilization is not Civilization.

Things got a little sketchy after Rome, and then after Constantinople, but "the west" continued. Also, the "Middle East" rose, which IS another branch of Civilization.

Humans are like tough little cockroaches. They're VERY hard to utterly kill off. Civilization will continue.

..just binge-watch The Walking Dead! :)

Aloha all you faithless nitwits! ..just kidding about the faithless thing. The nitwit thing,.. well,.. we'll see. <chuckle!>

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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by Guest »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
Tom Mazanec wrote:What if it turns out that there is no technological solution? Some very smart people say that there isn't.
Rome had a barbarian problem. It became so bad that a solution had to be found for civilization to continue.
No solution was found. It would be a millennium before the Renaissance finally came.
"A" civilization is not Civilization.

Things got a little sketchy after Rome, and then after Constantinople, but "the west" continued. Also, the "Middle East" rose, which IS another branch of Civilization.

Humans are like tough little cockroaches. They're VERY hard to utterly kill off. Civilization will continue.

..just binge-watch The Walking Dead! :)

Aloha all you faithless nitwits! ..just kidding about the faithless thing. The nitwit thing,.. well,.. we'll see. <chuckle!>
We could easily end up in another 1000 year Dark Age.

CH86
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by CH86 »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
shoshin wrote:John confuses horse shit (local catastrophe) with ecosystem collapse (systemic catastrophe). But that's ok, our lord and savior technology will redeem us....or something....
Ecosystems donʻt collapse.

They re-equilibri-ize, or somesuch makeshift term that means "finds a new equilibrium".

Thatʻs the way the world works, and if you believe that the present system is "perfection" then you fight against letting it do what itʻs going to do,.. and if you think that it doing what itʻs going to do is "perfection" then you let it do what itʻs going to do.

But it still boils down to "try to minimize your messes", assuming you don't like a messy ecosystem.

Trying to "engineer" the worlds overall ecosystem is simply the height of hubris.

I understand the "indoctrination" that young (and/or naive) minds have gone through so as to ease the way for those tyrants that would establish the "Amway Slavemaster Multimarketed Tyranny", but look at the real world, take a few deep breaths, and consider the robustness of the world and what has actually happened in the past that makes the "climate change horror show" rather laughable.

Stuff works out. You'll be fine, or at least fine enough to choose happiness if that's what you want.

..or you'll be dead,.. and then you won't care in the least.

And don't make any more messes than you have to, and encourage others to do the same.

Choose happiness. It's a much more sensible option. Aloha to ya'all. :) <shaka nui!>
Boomers, Your generation collectively just does not get it. You mention a choice between "tyranny" and "happiness" but your generation has mocked the natural freedoms by witholding the "right to choose" which of the above options from the younger generations. We want our ACTUAL rights back, in which the millennial makes the choice of "tyrant" or "blissful ignorance" and have that choice be entirely theirs. That is not what is currently the case in the west: here it is boomers imposing THEIR choices for the rest of us and that choice has always been to preserve the 3T system as long as possible. Boomers have gradually implemented tyranny as early as the mid-1990s when the young (who were xers at the time) started pointing out that the current prosperity was due to ourselves being at the convenient right place at the right time after the soviet collapse. That was something boomers did not want to hear, the same boomers also realized that the young would never be on board making the 1990s system permanent. The Boomer then implemented tyranny in order to preserve their childish worldview. Where threats from rival nations are mentioned they are mentioned only to demand those nation's democratization. Xers and Millies DO NOT want to see democracies in Russia and China. We DO NOT want a global order in which the every country in the world is a democracy, in which national governments would be little more than electoral regions inside a larger world government. YOU (boomers) might like and want such a world order but WE (younger generations born after 1960) do not.

The boomers claim the west still the bastion of freedom, however the fundamental choice any person must make is the choice whether to be good or evil. Everything else stems from the results of that fundamental choice. The west has not be free under the boomers watch because under their stewardship; westerners no longer have freedom of choice regarding the question of being good or being evil.

John
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by John »

FishbellykanakaDude wrote: > The necessity of something happening can't be determined before it
> happens, though many things are utterly inevitable.

> We will all die. That is inevitable. When any one person will die
> is "a mystery". Being "saved" by a "miracle" is neither inevitable
> nor a necessity,.. unless the miracle happens, and then it was a
> necessity.

> The tautology that "what is is" is a tautology, but it's also the
> truth.

> If it happened, it had to happen, because it did happen.
The concept that if something happened then it had to happen
is fascinating, and is something that I believe is mostly true.

In my own personal life. there have been some "pivot points" where, if
I'd asked out such-and-such a girl or if I'd gone on such-and-such a
job interview, then my life would have changed direction in some
aspects. But outside of a few dozen such pivot points, I see my life
as almost preordained.

This is also a Greek concept. I've written many times about
Greek tragedy.
John wrote: > The Greeks invented tragedy, and three of four great tragic
> artists of all time were Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides of
> ancient Greece, with the fourth being Shakespeare. As a Greek, I
> understand tragedy very well. The essence of Greek tragedy is
> that the tragic event it not random, but is inevitable, because of
> the nature, the personality, the character of the protagonists. A
> true tragedy cannot be prevented, even by those who foresee it,
> because the forces bringing about the tragedy are too powerful for
> anyone to stop.
This captures the idea that if a tragedy happened, then it had
to happen.

This is also related to the basic Generational Dynamics principles.
As I've written many times, it's a core principle of Generational
Dynamics that, even in a dictatorship, major decisions are made by
masses of people, by generations of people. The attitudes of
politicians are irrelevant, except insofar as they represent the
attitudes of the people. Generational Dynamics cannot predict what
any individual or small group of individuals will do, but it does
predict that great masses of people or entire generations will do.
Therefore, whatever happens had to happen, and Generational Dynamics
tries to figure out what has to happen BEFORE it happens.
Tom Mazanec wrote: > What if it turns out that there is no technological solution? Some
> very smart people say that there isn't. Rome had a barbarian
> problem. It became so bad that a solution had to be found for
> civilization to continue. No solution was found. It would be a
> millennium before the Renaissance finally came.
The solution isn't necessarily technological.

There's another saying: If something can't go on forever, then it
won't.

This statement is usually invoked in the context of global finance.
The US and other countries have exponentially growing levels of
government and private debate, creating enormous distortions.
Politicians always say "we have to do something about this, blah,
blah, blah" as they vote to spend more money. This cannot go on
forever, so it won't. It has no technological solution, but it does
have a financial solution: a massive global deleveraging crisis.

Other things that can't go on forever are resolved by war.

Some things that can't go on forever have a technological solution.
Horse manure is one of them. Is carbon emissions one of those? There
are scientists who say that this problem will take care of itself with
no human intervention, because the earth will adapt to the higher
carbon emissions. But if that doesn't happen, then there are still
other solutions, as I've described -- world war and technology. But,
one way or another, if it can't go on forever, then it won't.

John
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by John »

CH86 wrote: > Boomers, Your generation collectively just does not get it.
So where have you been? You've been gone for weeks, and with you
gone, I haven't had my Boomerness criticized in a long time, and I was
beginning again to think that being a Boomer was ok. So it's really
special to have you back and have Boomers put back in their place
again.

User avatar
Tom Mazanec
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by Tom Mazanec »

Yes, if something can not go on forever, then it won't.
We are just lucky that what ended the horse manure problem was not some Black Death level pandemic of horse borne diseases.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

CH86
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:51 am

Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by CH86 »

John wrote:
CH86 wrote: > Boomers, Your generation collectively just does not get it.
So where have you been? You've been gone for weeks, and with you
gone, I haven't had my Boomerness criticized in a long time, and I was
beginning again to think that being a Boomer was ok. So it's really
special to have you back and have Boomers put back in their place
again.
I've been lurking on the forum the whole time, I've just haven't been posting recently. Regarding criticizing boomers, the boomers aren't hated because they are boomers they are hated because they insist on Making Moral/Political decisions on behalf of the young without the consent of the younger generations. And the political Choices and Moral Choices made by the boomers are usually directly contrary to what the young believe in and what choices the young WOULD have made had the boomer allowed the proper personnel to make their own proper choices.

On a different topic someone mention that the appearance of the barbarians opposite rome signalled a darkness in history on remedies when the renaissance/reformation occured. In fact this is a common mistake of the current dominant historiography within the west, Rome and the barbarians to its north duked it out and fought each other from fairly early on in roman history, even during the Pax Romana there was regular fighting at the north borders of Rome. The barbarian/germanic war of Marcus Aurelius fought in the 160s and 170s AD is usually considered to be a watershed as that was the first time the Germanic tribes were strong enough to launch an outright all out attack on the Roman Empire, as apposed to regular tit for tat border raids, attacks, and invasions that occured before. Also the roman commercial system with the middle east had its first major hiccup when it brought the first widespread empire-wide plague. Marcus Aurelius repulsed said Germanic war and tried to set up forward provinces during the 170s, he even tried to remedy the plague, likely dying from disease probably contracted during some inspection of medical facilities. He was suceeded by First Commodus and Later after him the Severans. Yet Marcus Aurelius made no attempt to carry out provincial reform or border policy reform, instead as mention above he simply proposed moving the border further north. It was later under Commodus and Even later under the Severans that the senate was finally broken for good and the military was formally acknowledged as having superior authority than the senate. Yet Commodus and the Severans are generally criticized by history and Marcus is elevated as a good leader and decision maker, when Marcus was trying to preserve the old system even though events were showing that continuing the old system would have been very difficult.

In fact the Entire period from the death of Marcus Aurelius/ascension of Commodus in 180 AD until either columbus sailing to America in 1492 or Martin Luther nailing his thesis in 1517. The entire period listed above was and is generally frowned upon by first Wilsonian globalist historians and later Silent and Boomer historians. That is over 13 centuries of history that is largely glossed over by history books (at least most textbooks in this country do). Even the Pax Romana/Classic imperial period is covered with much less detail than that of Classical Greece and Republican Era Rome. The ideological Biases of Boomer Historiography is Obvious.

FishbellykanakaDude
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Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

Guest wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
Tom Mazanec wrote:What if it turns out that ...
We could easily end up in another 1000 year Dark Age.
Not impossible. Quite true.

Folks have also predicted a 1000 year Reich as well.

..what are YOU doing to fend off this 1000 year dark age? How "powerful" are you in that pursuit? Do you suppose your "side" will "win"? Ah, so many questions,.. so little,.. <er>,.. something.

FishbellykanakaDude
Posts: 1313
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: 9-Oct-18 World View -- UN: We have just 12 years to prevent global warming catastrophe

Post by FishbellykanakaDude »

John wrote:
CH86 wrote: > Boomers, Your generation collectively just does not get it.
So where have you been? You've been gone for weeks, and with you
gone, I haven't had my Boomerness criticized in a long time, and I was
beginning again to think that being a Boomer was ok. So it's really
special to have you back and have Boomers put back in their place
again.
<chuckle!>

That was delightfully chuckle worthy! :)

..let's hope CH had a lovely little vacation, eh?

And I've officially added "Boomerness" to my spellchecker dictionary. Nā mahalo for that one!

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