Fraternizing with the Enemy

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John
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Fraternizing with the Enemy

Post by John »

A web site reader read my book "Fraternizing with the Enemy - A book
on gender issues for men and for women who care about men"

http://GenerationalDynamics.com/dl/Frat ... eEnemy.pdf

which is available from my "downloads" page:

http://generationaldynamics.com/download

He sent me the following comments by e-mail:
> Just got done reading your "fraternizing with the enemy" book and
> while it was written fifteen years ago, many points and the
> central message is still valid.

> However, one thing you said in the book that divorced parents with
> kids always hate each other: I haven't found that to be true. I've
> known numerous divorced couples with children that get along
> well. Admittedly, though, most of them are either millennials or
> younger members of generation X, not Boomers.

> Another thing that does concern me is some of the men's rights
> organizations are behaving in a similar way that the feminists
> are. They're playing the victim card, constantly screaming
> oppression, and even seeing women as the enemy. About the only
> major difference I can see is that they don't have much political
> power. I find this especially tragic because there are plenty of
> legitimate problems that should be addressed and aren't.

> My biggest point of agreement is on the fact that all too often,
> men are being treated as predators. I've experienced that myself,
> with hysterical threats to call the police for no other reason
> that I smile at their child. I avoid them at all costs now because
> I refuse to put myself in that situation. When I was in High
> School and College, I was forced to sit in seminars where the
> speakers essentially claimed: "All men are potential rapists" "Be
> on your guard with every man" "Even men you trust may be waiting
> for an opportunity." All it does is spread fear and it doesn't
> even make women safer, just more afraid.

> As for your comments about divorce, it's not as overwhelmingly
> biased as it once was, though the mother usually still wins
> primary custody. Friendlier divorces are becoming more common,
> which is all to the good, as far as I'm concerned. And courts are
> less willing to listen to constant accusations of abuse.

> One thing that hasn't changed, however, is the enormous reluctance
> to admit that women can be abusers too. I talked to women who are
> survivors of it and thought they would be sympathetic; I was
> wrong. Your experience may be different, but mine is that women
> who endure violence by their male partners are the most hostile to
> the idea of female abusers. There have been a couple of
> exceptions, one of whom agreed because her son ended up in such a
> relationship.

> One particular story has always stood out to me: of a lifetime
> movie made in 1993 called "Men Don't Tell", which is about a
> husband confused and terrorized by his violent wife. No one
> believes him, a hotline hangs up on him, and he is the one who
> nearly goes to prison. So far as I know, it's the only movie of
> its kind ever made. In fact, it was only aired once due to the
> enormous hostility that women's groups poured onto it.

> So while I disagreed on a few of the points, overall I found it to
> be a great book.

John
Posts: 11478
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
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Re: Fraternizing with the Enemy

Post by John »

Some responses:
> Just got done reading your "fraternizing with the enemy" book and
> while it was written fifteen years ago, many points and the
> central message is still valid.
Actually, things are even worse today than they were in the 90s
when I wrote the book. In the 90s, the feminists and the racial
activists were loony. Today, everyone on the left is totally
loony.
> However, one thing you said in the book that divorced parents with
> kids always hate each other: I haven't found that to be true. I've
> known numerous divorced couples with children that get along
> well. Admittedly, though, most of them are either millennials or
> younger members of generation X, not Boomers.
I know lots of Boomers who get along with each other. In fact,
I get along with my ex-wife, and we cooperate on things. Things
get MUCH easier when the kids reach the age of 22, and all
the child support crap ends. If there's still alimony crap
involved, then the bitterness continues until death.
> Another thing that does concern me is some of the men's rights
> organizations are behaving in a similar way that the feminists
> are. They're playing the victim card, constantly screaming
> oppression, and even seeing women as the enemy. About the only
> major difference I can see is that they don't have much political
> power. I find this especially tragic because there are plenty of
> legitimate problems that should be addressed and aren't.
Fathers and children are always the victims. A divorce judge's
court budget is dependent on kickbacks from the department that
collects child support. Divorce judges and feminist social
workers couldn't care less if the mother feeds her children
to a wood chipper, as long as they can make as much money as
possible by blaming the father.
> My biggest point of agreement is on the fact that all too often,
> men are being treated as predators. I've experienced that myself,
> with hysterical threats to call the police for no other reason
> that I smile at their child. I avoid them at all costs now because
> I refuse to put myself in that situation. When I was in High
> School and College, I was forced to sit in seminars where the
> speakers essentially claimed: "All men are potential rapists" "Be
> on your guard with every man" "Even men you trust may be waiting
> for an opportunity." All it does is spread fear and it doesn't
> even make women safer, just more afraid.
Rape is a purely political crime. Feminists don't care that Bill
Clinton was credibly charged with raping at least seven women, pushing
them into a hotel room, using violence to force them to comply, and
then raping them. If you're a Democrat, it's perfectly OK for you to
rape as many women as you want. If you're a woman being raped by a
Democrat, you might as well just lie back and enjoy it. As another
example, feminists couldn't care less about the two girls who were
allegedly raped by Julian Assange.
> As for your comments about divorce, it's not as overwhelmingly
> biased as it once was, though the mother usually still wins
> primary custody. Friendlier divorces are becoming more common,
> which is all to the good, as far as I'm concerned. And courts are
> less willing to listen to constant accusations of abuse.
What's happened is that 95% of all battering charges are made up, with
feminist organizations like NOW providing women with detailed
instructions on how to do it, and how to make money from it. The
unintended consequence is that courts are flooded with phony charges
of battering, and with budget cuts in the court systems, the courts
are unable to keep up with all the phony charges. This also means
that when a woman actually has a REAL complaint, she's not believed
because she sounds like all the phonies.
> One thing that hasn't changed, however, is the enormous reluctance
> to admit that women can be abusers too. I talked to women who are
> survivors of it and thought they would be sympathetic; I was
> wrong. Your experience may be different, but mine is that women
> who endure violence by their male partners are the most hostile to
> the idea of female abusers. There have been a couple of
> exceptions, one of whom agreed because her son ended up in such a
> relationship.
Almost all perpetrators of child physical abuse are mothers -- and
this is irrespective of how much time each parent spends with the
kids. It has to do with hormones. When a father is frustrated,
he gets into a barfight. When a mother is frustrated, she beats
the crap out of the kids.

Almost all perpetrators of child sexual abuse are mothers' boyfriends.
Social workers purposely lie about this, blaming sexual abuse on the
biological father, even when he isn't even present, because that way
the social workers get more money.

Social workers couldn't care less if the mother beats the crap out of
the kids or if the mother's boyfriend repeatedly rapes the kids,
because social workers can't make money out of it.
> One particular story has always stood out to me: of a lifetime
> movie made in 1993 called "Men Don't Tell", which is about a
> husband confused and terrorized by his violent wife. No one
> believes him, a hotline hangs up on him, and he is the one who
> nearly goes to prison. So far as I know, it's the only movie of
> its kind ever made. In fact, it was only aired once due to the
> enormous hostility that women's groups poured onto it.
Feminists have enormous political power. Any piece of crap
that comes from a feminist press release is automatically taken
as fact, and anyone who contradicts it is screwed.

One example of complete crap that came out of feminists was that
men beat up their wives on Super Bowl day. That was repeated
endlessly when first announced as "fact" by feminists, but it's
totally full of crap.

Another example of total crap is that 25% of all college girls are
raped, a statistic that the Obama administration copied from NOW press
releases, and, once again, is total crap. The real figure is less
than 0.1%.
> So while I disagreed on a few of the points, overall I found it to
> be a great book.
Well, the only thing you disagreed with is the comment about Boomers,
and I hope that I clear that up.

Weiseth
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 3:13 am

Re: Fraternizing with the Enemy

Post by Weiseth »

Wow powerfull stuff, Things really are the same in US as in Norway.

When I grew up I had a friend who had parents who was divorced and the mother got custody when she unemployed and the father owned a business. Turned out she was basically a prostitute and always had different "boyfriends" over, even when I was at a sleepover you could hear her screaming crazy and crying/yelling that it hurt, the poor kid just laughed at it as we were up playing With action figures in the other living room, "coincidentally" all his jokes were sexual even at age 8. The father got custody after 4 years though and he moved to another city, don't know how he turned out. I'm from a broken home myself and my mother and father after a few years passed got a long, but being true to the statistics myself turned to crime when I was 13 and my sister became sexually active around age 12 or something. So it doesn't really matter if the mother and father are best friends, the fact is that living without a father is harmful, 80% more likely to turn criminal before age 18 for boys and 90% more likely to become sexually active before age 18 for Girls compared to kids from stable households.

And your point about most child sexual abuse come from mothers boyfriends is also true. Recommend the lecture by Stefan Molyneux "the truth about single mothers" for the statistics on that.

Reading your book now.

John
Posts: 11478
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Fraternizing with the Enemy

Post by John »

Weiseth wrote: > Wow powerfull stuff, Things really are the same in US as in
> Norway.

> When I grew up I had a friend who had parents who was divorced and
> the mother got custody when she unemployed and the father owned a
> business. Turned out she was basically a prostitute and always had
> different "boyfriends" over, even when I was at a sleepover you
> could hear her screaming crazy and crying/yelling that it hurt,
> the poor kid just laughed at it as we were up playing With action
> figures in the other living room, "coincidentally" all his jokes
> were sexual even at age 8. The father got custody after 4 years
> though and he moved to another city, don't know how he turned
> out. I'm from a broken home myself and my mother and father after
> a few years passed got a long, but being true to the statistics
> myself turned to crime when I was 13 and my sister became sexually
> active around age 12 or something. So it doesn't really matter if
> the mother and father are best friends, the fact is that living
> without a father is harmful, 80% more likely to turn criminal
> before age 18 for boys and 90% more likely to become sexually
> active before age 18 for Girls compared to kids from stable
> households.

> And your point about most child sexual abuse come from mothers
> boyfriends is also true. Recommend the lecture by Stefan Molyneux
> "the truth about single mothers" for the statistics on that.

> Reading your book now.

I'm terribly sorry that you had to live through all that. I hope that
now that you've reached adulthood, you're able to put it behind you.

Weiseth
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 3:13 am

Re: Fraternizing with the Enemy

Post by Weiseth »

John wrote: I'm terribly sorry that you had to live through all that. I hope that
now that you've reached adulthood, you're able to put it behind you.
Indeed, the story about my friend there I just wanted to mention with regards to you having trouble with getting visitation rights to Your son. In this case the mother was horrible, their Apartment was always filthy, she never worked real jobs, even his bedroom light was a stolen stadium light which was so bright he melted plastic on it (good fumes for developing brain in locked sleeping room) and he always cooked his own dinners which was normally one onion chopped and fried in butter that's it. Whereas his father though his lack of judgment in women is concerning was a successful business owner who had a good house and clearly was competent. That showed me quite early in my life that the system is rigged against fathers, though he eventually got custody after something finally happened that made it impossible for her to continue custody. The solution should have been clear from the start. Then again compared to many of the interviews you have done this is sadly mild in comparison.

There is no malice in my Family now. My mother and father though both have New families still have birthdays and get togethers which is really great, especially for their new children. It took almost two decades for them to Reach this point though.

One thing you describe in Your book how in the sessions with the social worker it was collusion against you in bringing out throngs of moronic complaints with the intent of making you lose Your temper, the same thing happened with my father in Court when he was battling for visitation rights with his son with another woman, they basically accused him of sexually abusing the child in some way by suggesting the kid (who was maybe two years of the time) constantly obsessed about sex after having spent a day or weekend with him. Luckily this had the effect of making the Judges angry and threatened the consequences of libel/wrongful accusations as it was obvious they were lying.

Last year I have been going to theraphy though to find out if i have ADHD with have in hope of getting some drugs that can help calm me down. Probably done half a dozen different questioners and over 20 hours of interview and never once has the issue of growing up With single mother been raised or even the question of divorce. I have been asked about 5 times though if I ever committed rape, which I find is a very strange question in the context of ADHD. Which seems to me that even in psychology as in the actual application of psyhology in social work and Healthcare wholly ignore what is becoming the indusputable facts of harm caused by single mothers like you describe to great detail in your book which I would define as the "Social sector Divorced Family alimony and judicial adjudication industrial complex". Even psychologists are in collusion with the profiteering of divorce.

Hell, in France now you are not even allowed to do DNA test to check if the kids you are paying alimony for are really Yours... Now that should say everything right there.

I find it annoying that one is compelled to state the obvious that being against feminism is not being against women. For example in my own case the asshole was my father who had children when he was 18 not ready for fatherhood and even made my mother perform abortion on their first child. My mother who struggled as all single mothers do did the best she could and I would say she did amazing good job that I certainly could never have done have I been in the same situation at her age. Most single mothers are good mothers and good persons, but the statistics show the consequences of single parenthood no matter how good single parents are. I already read that you come back to this a lot in your preface that this is not misogynistic, that acknowledging these facts is in fact the opposite. Feminism hurts both men and women, just as Savage masculinity we see in Arab cultures hurt also both women and men.

Trevor
Posts: 1209
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:43 am

Re: Fraternizing with the Enemy

Post by Trevor »

I admit, I'm not too optimistic about things changing. I was somewhat more hopeful a little while ago, but since then, my overall cynicism has only deepened. I happen to believe that both genders are facing issues that need to be addressed, but only one side has the spotlight.

What I have noticed is that neither side of the political isle seems to spare a second thought to difficulties that men face in society today. The reasons differ, from "Men are privileged and have no right to complain" to "You're a man; you should act like it" but the ultimate result is the same. About the only mention I hear is "Men need to behave more like women instead of acting on their violent nature" or something similar.

As a whole, society, at least western society is a lot more sympathetic to difficulties that women face than men. You notice there wasn't a White House Council on Men and Boys the was there was for Women and Girls. In the news, I see constant articles about how girls are being brutalized, forced into submissions, being taught that they are inferior. I'm sure you've seen them too. Even in the articles that have some truth to them, they fail to mention that boys are suffering from them too. Sometimes I wonder if there's a biological component to it, since from an evolutionary perspective, males are more expendable.

To take a more distant example, I've read some of Erin Pizzey's interviews and articles; she was the woman who opened some of the first domestic violence shelters for women. However, when she realized many men were victims too and tried to get support for them, the responses ranged from indifference to outright hostility. She received numerous attacks and threats, some of which was racially motivated. Seems like not a lot has changed since then. Interestingly enough, she considered feminism to be a poison.

I've never seen any evidence that men are being taught to hate women. I've certainly seen plenty of stupidity. "Women are Crazy" "Women are too emotional" "Women are insane" "Women just overreact, can't understand why she's doing this" and other similar statements. However, genuine hatred of a gender is something I've only ever seen from women.

Similar movements in the past, like the Civil Rights Movement, gay rights movement and others have all needed a crucial component: support from outside. Many whites joined the civil rights movement, heterosexuals supported gay rights, men worked alongside women in support of their rights. For the MRM and issues affecting men... I can almost hear the crickets chirping. Maybe you'll have to wait until the next Awakening Period.

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