5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
Guest

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:01 am

We lost the ability to think independently years ago...but anyway.

As for America, every dog has its day and this empire like other powerful ones in history before it...is toast. The experiment is over - they turned us into greedy McDonald eating narcissistic fags.

CH86
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:51 am

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby CH86 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:52 pm

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
CH86 wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:blah blah blah...


But in other countries Russia, China, Iran and others, generational decisions are being taken by not just boomers but the equivalents of Xers, Millies and Homies/pivotals. Thats Not whats happening in the west, here in the west generational decisions are being implemented by boomers and solely by boomers who deliberately excluded the other generations. Hence the young have not been allowed to have their generational "vote" on issues. In Russia and China all four generations are shaping the decisions the Chinese and Russian governments are making. Here in America only the boomers are shaping those decisions really. What the young is demanding is that all four generations shape the decisions of America just like they do in Russia and China.


I think you're quite incorrect.

Those who "take (make?) generational decisions" are those with the power to do so.

That's that way it works, according to the "typical power dynamics" of the society involved.

If you, for example, don't like the presently exhibited "normal power dynamics" of "the west" then you're perfectly welcome to try to change those dynamics,.. within or not within the "law" of the land.

I'd love to see how you'd go about changing those norms within the law, and it'd also be interesting to see where you might "dare" to resort to making changes outside the law, if you deemed that necessary.

Your "complaint" that "your people" (age cohort) are being denied some "power" that they have, is obvious nonsense, because if they DID have the power (and the will to use it) then they'd use it!

Those with "the power" use the power. Those without "the power" won't.

Your basic "problem" is that you don't belong to the "population" that you think you do, and that you think you represent.

You can try to whip up "your people" to be more like yourself, but until there is some "critical mass" within "your people" that already think like you do, you won't have any effect whatsoever.

The masses LEAD movements, they don't follow "politicians" like yourself. And yes, you are a politician, because you're a minority trying to "push" a majority to do something. That is the definition of a politician.

The "successful" politician, of course, doesn't actually lead. He follows while appearing to lead, and is paid quite well for pulling off the illusion.

When the genocidal resentful mass DOES come to power, you can have all the "fun" you like for a short while, until the mood changes to disgust and revulsion at such (likely somewhat necessary) "fun".

You are correct that sometimes "tempered genocide" is the knife necessary to correct an "evil malady" (actively acquisitive megalomaniacal genocidal madmen) in a surgical manner, but short of solving the "living memory" problem that causes the GD Cycle, there is no "human nature change" solution (where people accept a perpetual tyranny) to our cyclic nature of war and peace.

You give MUCH too much credit to the "generational egalitarianism" of Russia and China et al. Those statements of yours are beyond laughable, of course, but not much of a surprise since you "look up to them" so. :)

Utopians, of any stripe, are ALWAYS so damned amusing!

Aloha dude! <shaka nui!>


Except that There is undeniably more "generational tyranny" here in the west than there is in Russia and China: and this situation is the opposite of what it was during the cold war. During the Cold war (at least during the second half), Soviet leaders where overwhelmingly from the generation born from the 1890s to early 1910s who had been lower-level functionaries during Stalin's reign. Meanwhile although Reagan himself was quite old most of the officials with him were much younger, they were late silents and boomers. That Reagan was able to outmaneuver the soviets was predictable then, that the soviets threw in the towel soon after Gorbachev's generation came to power, was also predicable because hardly anyone in that generation actually believed in "soviet utopia" all Gorbachev's generation knew from the system was its tyranny.

While gerontocracy is not as drastic in the modern west than in the pre-collapse USSR, the same factors are present, hardly anybody born after 1960 considers the current "power dynamics" in the west to be "the best thing ever": No, those generations have spent their whole lives dreaming of the day they would get in there and institute drastic reforms because they do not benefit from the current order in the west. Silents and Boomers might like globalism but practically NO ONE younger than them do. The situation is very different in Russia and China. In Russia the eqivalents of Xers and Millies actually are able to particiapate in the system, in fact putin favors them over the silents and older boomers. In China While the culture historically has venerated elder leadership; the Chinese Boomers have actually been doing a good job unlike their western counterparts, and the young have more participation in the party machinery than their western equivalents. And that is a testament to the tyranny of western Silents and Boomers that a civilization that says "old and wise has first dibs on leadership" has younger leaders than the west which historically does not have that dogma.

FishbellykanakaDude
Posts: 952
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby FishbellykanakaDude » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:08 am

CH86 wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
CH86 wrote:
But in other countries Russia, China, Iran and others, generational decisions are being taken by not just boomers but the ...


I think you're quite incorrect.

Those who "take (make?) generational decisions" are those ...


Except that There is undeniably more "generational tyranny" here in the west than there is in Russia and China: and this situation is the opposite of what it was during the cold war. During the Cold war (at least during the second half), Soviet leaders where overwhelmingly from the generation born from the 1890s to early 1910s who had been lower-level functionaries during Stalin's reign. Meanwhile although Reagan himself was quite old most of the officials with him were much younger, they were late silents and boomers. That Reagan was able to outmaneuver the soviets was predictable then, that the soviets threw in the towel soon after Gorbachev's generation came to power, was also predicable because hardly anyone in that generation actually believed in "soviet utopia" all Gorbachev's generation knew from the system was its tyranny.

While gerontocracy is not as drastic in the modern west than in the pre-collapse USSR, the same factors are present, hardly anybody born after 1960 considers the current "power dynamics" in the west to be "the best thing ever": No, those generations have spent their whole lives dreaming of the day they would get in there and institute drastic reforms because they do not benefit from the current order in the west. Silents and Boomers might like globalism but practically NO ONE younger than them do. The situation is very different in Russia and China. In Russia the eqivalents of Xers and Millies actually are able to particiapate in the system, in fact putin favors them over the silents and older boomers. In China While the culture historically has venerated elder leadership; the Chinese Boomers have actually been doing a good job unlike their western counterparts, and the young have more participation in the party machinery than their western equivalents. And that is a testament to the tyranny of western Silents and Boomers that a civilization that says "old and wise has first dibs on leadership" has younger leaders than the west which historically does not have that dogma.


I agree with you that Russia is more dynamic. The "Frontier Spirit" has come back to them. Our (the US) "Frontier Spirit" is in very poor shape because of the success of US industrialization and "Citification".

China SEEMS to be more dynamic because of it's rapid economic success, but it's only because they have applied their usual strength (mass mobilization) to the task at hand.

Societies make decisions about where they will apply a "strong hand" and where they will tolerate non-uniformity.

I'm an "admirer" of small societies. Not that I'd survive in such a society, but we can all be romantic about some things, eh? Rather autocratic societies seem the better choice, to me, but only if they are "distributed" (not overly concentrated) and they balance their autocracy with "familiness".

That's why my interest in Polynesia/Micronesia societies, "Primitive" Eurasian tribal societies (celts, slavs, germans, finns, siberians, caucasians, etc) and pretty much any other "smallish tribal" society.

The problem is that it's difficult for these small societies to compete with the would-be "universalizers".

I live in one of these universalizer type societies ("The West", USA). I am of a universalizer type religion (Irish-ish Catholic). I see the massive benefits that this type of society grants.

But even in these "smaller" societies the people with the power have the power and can exercise that power.

Until "we" have the power "we" have no power to use.

I think you are incorrect in your assessment of who REALLY holds "the power" in Russia and China. You seem to me to be equating "strong authoritarian rule" with YOUR generation(s), and "weak democratic/globalist rule" with "your elders". The former being "good", and the latter being "evil".

You say you're simply advocating for the freedom of "your generation(s)" to have a voice in ruling society.

If you go up against the strong-man you'd better be ready with the power to overcome him, as no one gives up power voluntarily if it's "lawful" to hold onto it. Period.

You are NOT going to convince the strong-man to hand it over by appealing to "laws" that don't exist.

I understand your complaints. I somewhat sympathize with your complaints. I'm am full on opposed to slavery, though, and the "universalist" Russians (as constituted at present) and Chinese are hell bent on imposing a multi-level slave state on massive populations including those not in their territory proper.

My "solution" (which ain't gonna happen) is to break up all overly-large nations into "more true nations" based on whatever those populations wish to differentiate themselves from others by.

..sorry for the dangling participle.

And I ain't a fan of your fanboyin' for Putin and Xi, and any other slavers. :)

Aloha 'oe! <shaka nui dude!>

CH86
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:51 am

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby CH86 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:41 pm

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
CH86 wrote:
FishbellykanakaDude wrote:
I think you're quite incorrect.

Those who "take (make?) generational decisions" are those ...


Except that There is undeniably more "generational tyranny" here in the west than there is in Russia and China: and this situation is the opposite of what it was during the cold war. During the Cold war (at least during the second half), Soviet leaders where overwhelmingly from the generation born from the 1890s to early 1910s who had been lower-level functionaries during Stalin's reign. Meanwhile although Reagan himself was quite old most of the officials with him were much younger, they were late silents and boomers. That Reagan was able to outmaneuver the soviets was predictable then, that the soviets threw in the towel soon after Gorbachev's generation came to power, was also predicable because hardly anyone in that generation actually believed in "soviet utopia" all Gorbachev's generation knew from the system was its tyranny.

While gerontocracy is not as drastic in the modern west than in the pre-collapse USSR, the same factors are present, hardly anybody born after 1960 considers the current "power dynamics" in the west to be "the best thing ever": No, those generations have spent their whole lives dreaming of the day they would get in there and institute drastic reforms because they do not benefit from the current order in the west. Silents and Boomers might like globalism but practically NO ONE younger than them do. The situation is very different in Russia and China. In Russia the eqivalents of Xers and Millies actually are able to particiapate in the system, in fact putin favors them over the silents and older boomers. In China While the culture historically has venerated elder leadership; the Chinese Boomers have actually been doing a good job unlike their western counterparts, and the young have more participation in the party machinery than their western equivalents. And that is a testament to the tyranny of western Silents and Boomers that a civilization that says "old and wise has first dibs on leadership" has younger leaders than the west which historically does not have that dogma.


I agree with you that Russia is more dynamic. The "Frontier Spirit" has come back to them. Our (the US) "Frontier Spirit" is in very poor shape because of the success of US industrialization and "Citification".

China SEEMS to be more dynamic because of it's rapid economic success, but it's only because they have applied their usual strength (mass mobilization) to the task at hand.

Societies make decisions about where they will apply a "strong hand" and where they will tolerate non-uniformity.

I'm an "admirer" of small societies. Not that I'd survive in such a society, but we can all be romantic about some things, eh? Rather autocratic societies seem the better choice, to me, but only if they are "distributed" (not overly concentrated) and they balance their autocracy with "familiness".

That's why my interest in Polynesia/Micronesia societies, "Primitive" Eurasian tribal societies (celts, slavs, germans, finns, siberians, caucasians, etc) and pretty much any other "smallish tribal" society.

The problem is that it's difficult for these small societies to compete with the would-be "universalizers".

I live in one of these universalizer type societies ("The West", USA). I am of a universalizer type religion (Irish-ish Catholic). I see the massive benefits that this type of society grants.

But even in these "smaller" societies the people with the power have the power and can exercise that power.

Until "we" have the power "we" have no power to use.

I think you are incorrect in your assessment of who REALLY holds "the power" in Russia and China. You seem to me to be equating "strong authoritarian rule" with YOUR generation(s), and "weak democratic/globalist rule" with "your elders". The former being "good", and the latter being "evil".

You say you're simply advocating for the freedom of "your generation(s)" to have a voice in ruling society.

If you go up against the strong-man you'd better be ready with the power to overcome him, as no one gives up power voluntarily if it's "lawful" to hold onto it. Period.

You are NOT going to convince the strong-man to hand it over by appealing to "laws" that don't exist.

I understand your complaints. I somewhat sympathize with your complaints. I'm am full on opposed to slavery, though, and the "universalist" Russians (as constituted at present) and Chinese are hell bent on imposing a multi-level slave state on massive populations including those not in their territory proper.

My "solution" (which ain't gonna happen) is to break up all overly-large nations into "more true nations" based on whatever those populations wish to differentiate themselves from others by.

..sorry for the dangling participle.

And I ain't a fan of your fanboyin' for Putin and Xi, and any other slavers. :)

Aloha 'oe! <shaka nui dude!>


The problem isn't "universalism" per se, the problem that xers and millies identify is the current version of universalism preached by the west. Xers and Millies are putting their foot down and telling boomers that they don't believe in "that" version. Xers and Millies are telling boomers that they prefer a "overarching societal Model" that is similar to the Russian and Chinese "societal models/for society". Yet boomers just refuse to listen and are tyrannically suppressing the young in order to prevent Americans and Europeans from reforming their societies to that preferred "societal model". Boomers by doing that; are being tyrannical because they are denying Xers and Millies THEIR "human right" to make their own choices and consequences of their own choices by the young that are the youngs' choices alone. Signs of the boomers tyranny has abounded for quite a while: The first major blatantly obvious instance is when immediately after 9/11 there was mass demands for militarization and profiling of Muslims for the post-9/11 attacks security measures. Instead the boomers implemented a limited war/police action and had forced airport security on everyone instead of on muslims within the country.

FishbellykanakaDude
Posts: 952
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby FishbellykanakaDude » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:35 pm

CH86 wrote:The problem isn't "universalism" per se, the problem that xers and millies identify is the current version of universalism preached by the west. Xers and Millies are putting their foot down and telling boomers that they don't believe in "that" version.

Xers and Millies are telling boomers that they prefer a "overarching societal Model" that is similar to the Russian and Chinese "societal models/for society".


And that's your (your "group" which you incorrectly identify as "Xers and Millies") problem.

There IS no "preferring" the Russian/Chinese model of society that makes sense,.. unless you are a single party state multilevel-marketing slave society.

But that, by definition, makes you an actual promoter of evil, which simply defines you as "the enemy" of good.

You've now completely "outed" yourself as a slave state proponent. You have no credibility as anyone worth listening to for "advice" on how to assist society to become better,.. except to listen to you for information as to how to defeat you and your kind.

Yet boomers just refuse to listen and are tyrannically suppressing the young in order to prevent Americans and Europeans from reforming their societies to that preferred "societal model". Boomers by doing that; are being tyrannical because they are denying Xers and Millies THEIR "human right" to make their own choices and consequences of their own choices by the young that are the youngs' choices alone.


Two things here:
1) Allowing a tyranny (yours) to "ascend" because the proponent of that tyranny claims a tyrant (the probably more wise elders) is using their misidentified "tyrannical power" to "oppress them" so they can't institute their clearly identifiable actual tyranny is just NOT what those who (at least think) they're doing the right thing have ANY motivation to do.
2) There is no "human right" to be evil.

The young have no "right" to choose evil. They have the opportunity to do so, just as we all have the opportunity to murder our neighbor.

Those with "the power" to make choices that require power have the opportunity to make those choices, be they good ones or evil ones.

Your "cadre" (whatever tiny minority of the "youth" that ACTUALLY agree with you) doesn't have "the power", and no "right" whatsoever, to choose the evil you propose,.. so you'll have to wait to see if you, and yours, will get it at some point.

Until then, you're free to do as you wish to help your cause along, but that will require your patience and your effort.

How DO you help to actualize your cause?

Signs of the boomers tyranny has ...


Bad luck to you in your every endeavor, buckeroo. :)

Guest

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby Guest » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:51 am

What is China going to do, send their ancient Soviet rebuilt aircraft carrier over to attack us?

China has saber rattled before at the same military visit. Xi wants to keep the morale up, but ramming a ship and killing US sailors would change the dynamics.

Trump ain't Obama.

Guest

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby Guest » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:52 am

Sorry, but when I see Winnie the Poo order the Smurfs to prepare for war, I can't help but to chuckle a little.

Guest 5

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby Guest 5 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:20 am

China is the real threat, and yet, Americans are focused on fighting the 'white patriarchy'. America's economy is collapsing and people spend all their time on Face Book and Twitter. Young Americans are more worried about the rights of 'non-binary transgenders' than protecting the US from external threats. SJWs say that Americans greatest threats are inside American society, I agree with that idea, but not who the enemies are. The enemy of America is the left wing, not white males (who pay all virtually all of the taxes).

Guest

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby Guest » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:29 am

Guest wrote:Sorry, but when I see Winnie the Poo order the Smurfs to prepare for war, I can't help but to chuckle a little.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... cbba1fda9b

Australian media is headlining the story today.

Guest in Korea

Re: 5-Aug-18 World View -- China mocks America's 'Indo-Pacific' strategy at ASEAN meeting

Postby Guest in Korea » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:11 am

I'm in Korea. The economy is sinking. I can't imagine China is doing any better. China making financial deals with their arch-enemy Japan is a sign desperation, nothing else. I read your analysis with serious concern. Could this economic downturn be the catalyst that sparks a war?

The Korean government spent the day telling everyone that there was no crisis. They really said that today. All around me I see despair and a growing feeling that things are just getting worse.

The Chinese have always tried to put a sunny image forward, but that's not happening anymore.The problems have become to difficult to pretend otherwise. The Chinese tell me openly they are in trouble.

I see only darkness ahead. I am scared.


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