Abortion

[Bob Butler]

Past failures at the crisis peak might include the march to the sea

Nope. Just ask Jim Crow. Or it took a century.

Prejudice is being fought in steps. The Civil War, The Civil Rights Movement, Black Lives Matter, and who knows what in the future all count. Oppression against others is instinctive in humans, and stubborn. People can attempt to justify it in all sorts of ways.

[Tom Mazanec]

Why has American racism been so durable, as opposed to Japanese/German ideology 1945?

[Bob Butler]

Why has American racism been so durable, as opposed to Japanese/German ideology 1945?

Well, in 1945, the Axis powers lost. They might have believed in the Generational Dynamics subtext. We are the master race. We have the discipline, hate and military prowess. The Allies are soft, economic, don't value war, and are easy pickings. And the Axis lost, nukes and burning cities lost. If you believe you can profit from war, well, they had to reconsider if they were really the master races. They did. That was their major lesson learned from WW II, to fixate on economic development and forget about picking on the supposedly inferior Jew, Chinese and supposedly inferior cultures.

Our lesson was quite different: containment. It had little to do with racism. If focused mainly on the autocratic governments, not on blacks, Latinos, or whatever race was considered inferior. Thus, the particular lesson of racism was not learned. It came later and only incrementally with the Civil Rights and Black Lives Matter movements.

Can avoiding racism be learned? Two of the most violent racist organizations were the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. In getting involved in the insurrection and supporting Trump, they are becoming victims of rule of law. Twenty year sentnces might almost be enough. Will it be? The Memphis bad cops were soon arrested and charged. If other bad cops see this as the likely result, will they cease having open season on minorities? If most spree killers are soon arrested and charged, will they give up the current fashion of violence, or is that what they want somehow?

Would the federal reform laws help? If a state protects racist organizations, bad cops, gerrymandering and such like, would it help if federal charges could invite the federals in? If a future congress can get rid of the supermajority to pass the Senate, might something like this happen?

It is the result of crisis solutions that become the new values. Squishing racism just was not one of our priorities in 1945.

[El Cid M]

Why has American racism been so durable, as opposed to Japanese/German ideology 1945?

Well, in 1945, the Axis powers lost. They might have believed in the Generational Dynamics subtext. We are the master race. We have the discipline, hate and military prowess. The Allies are soft, economic, don't value war, and are easy pickings. And the Axis lost, nukes and burning cities lost. If you believe you can profit from war, well, they had to reconsider if they were really the master races. They did. That was their major lesson learned from WW II, to fixate on economic development and forget about picking on the supposedly inferior Jew, Chinese and supposedly inferior cultures.

Our lesson was quite different: containment. It had little to do with racism. If focused mainly on the autocratic governments, not on blacks, Latinos, or whatever race was considered inferior. Thus, the particular lesson of racism was not learned. It came later and only incrementally with the Civil Rights and Black Lives Matter movements.

Can avoiding racism be learned? Two of the most violent racist organizations were the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. In getting involved in the insurrection and supporting Trump, they are becoming victims of rule of law. Twenty year sentnces might almost be enough. Will it be? The Memphis bad cops were soon arrested and charged. If other bad cops see this as the likely result, will they cease having open season on minorities? If most spree killers are soon arrested and charged, will they give up the current fashion of violence, or is that what they want somehow?

Would the federal reform laws help? If a state protects racist organizations, bad cops, gerrymandering and such like, would it help if federal charges could invite the federals in? If a future congress can get rid of the supermajority to pass the Senate, might something like this happen?

It is the result of crisis solutions that become the new values. Squishing racism just was not one of our priorities in 1945.

Leftist brain implants and gulags across America for straight white males will crush "racism" forever...

[Bob Butler]

Leftist brain implants and gulags across America for straight white males will crush "racism" forever...

I wouldn’t go after a broad group such as straight white males. While many are most likely on the oppressor side, they are on both. Criminals, insurrectionists, liars, violent bigots, election deniers…. There are much more specific folk that are at the center of the crisis. There are laws already in place to handle them, and prisons enough.

Besides, the brain implant technology is currently insufficient. These folks are too far gone. Those who need correction most would best be imprisoned.

[Tom Mazanec]

Tom,
I've been on this forum well over a decade, and you were here before me. I've read many things you've written including your great short story. You seem like a very genuine and honest person who is passionate about your beliefs, particularly concerning abortion and other matters of religion. Do yourself a favor. Stop replying to Bob. You're in an abusive relationship with him. He doesn't treat you the way you deserve to be treated. He has massive confirmation bias and doesn't listen to anybody. Just ignore him, you'll be happier.

Best regards

Jack

I've thought it over, and asked for advice.
Matthew 10:14.

[John]

Matthew 10:14. New International Version ... If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

If I had taken that advice, I would have had to quit years ago.

[Tom Mazanec]

John, I have had disagreements with you re:inflation, but I have never called you a liar, as BB has repeatedly called me. At some point you just have to stop casting your pearls before swine, but that does not mean you stop giving your pearls to people.

[Bob Butler]

Matthew 10:14. New International Version ... If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

If I had taken that advice, I would have had to quit years ago.

I read Matthew 10 to get the context. I turns out Jesus was sending out his apostles to get converts. He advised them to seek houses with a familiar Jewish background, to avoid houses that didn’t, and he had some unpleasant things to say about the houses that didn’t.

Now if I were seeking progressive converts, I would not seek them in a house full of Johns. If Tom were seeking to convert people to Catholics, he could do better than looking in my place. That much of Jesus’s advice made sense. Seek converts where you are most apt to find them. The only risk is in creating a place where everybody shares a perspective similar to your own. In Matthew 10, that’s the whole idea.

But if you don’t really expect people to change worldviews, can you teach which worldview is apt to triumph? If medieval flaws in the culture can no longer be tolerated, if densely populated cities have developed new problems, if technology has advanced since the last crisis, things need to change. Thus, the progressive side in recent crisis has resolved the major issues in its favor. This doesn’t mean there aren’t fine aspects of the culture which should be preserved.

But dismissing what others have to say? Cursing them? Promoting ill feeling towards those that have different beliefs than one’s own? Calling them criminals, insurrectionists, liars, violent bigots and election deniers? My own attitude towards the MAGA crowd matches well enough what Jesus / Matthew said about those despicable folks who rejected Jesus’s message. It seems one should listen enough to understand other’s perspectives, even if you are fixed in yours and not apt to convert.

[Bob Butler]

John, I have had disagreements with you re:inflation, but I have never called you a liar, as BB has repeatedly called me. At some point you just have to stop casting your pearls before swine, but that does not mean you stop giving your pearls to people.

Both you and John will at times present your worldview as fact when objectively and scientifically it is not. This is understandable. It is not how one should reach understandings, insisting on falsehoods.