28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

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Expand view Topic review: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by John » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:57 pm

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Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by John » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:13 am

gerald wrote:I hope the storm Sandy does not give you too much trouble, it looks like it will be a memorable one, stay safe.

Everything is wet but otherwise quiet here - so far.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by OLD1953 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:55 am

It would always drive my kids crazy when I'd fix errors in their math texts. I'll admit I had to read that quadratic about three times to realize you meant x^2 and not X dot 2 which is utterly different.

You aren't the only one irritated by the attitude of the news organizations nowadays, Superman's had it up to here with infotainment:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/chapter- ... rman-issue

I am not surprised to hear Obama has a problem with 8th grade math, most adults do. At least 3/4 of voters would be banned from the polls if they were required to solve a quadratic in order to vote. That said, many of the math "texts" produced now are crappy, full of errors and some very roundabout ways to solve equations. Honestly, I have a hard time understanding some of that nonsense, I simply showed my kids the direct way to get the right answer and why it worked, and they understood that.

We've had a few technically oriented presidents, including one who wrote a published paper while campaigning. But they were exceptions. I doubt any president since Carter has been mathematically competent.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by gerald » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:47 pm

John, your comment regarding the math teacher is not surprising.---

From a different perspective, when in college I had an Iranian friend who came from a very wealthy family. Upon graduation he returned to Iran and taught at the college level ( in the 1980's) upon returning to the US he told me about a major problem with teaching in Iran. Students from wealthy families or those well connected demanded good grades regardless of ability. He said this was very common.

I hope the storm Sandy does not give you too much trouble, it looks like it will be a memorable one, stay safe.

gerald

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by John » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:06 pm

Someone on the Breitbart site wrote:
> If I was incapable of doing little beyond seventh-grade
> math, I sure as heck wouldn't be telling the story for yucks on
> national TV. But it does seem to fit in quite well with his shown
> incompetence in other subjects.
I certainly have to agree with this. When I heard the quote that he
was lost helping his daughter with her 8th grade homework, I was
genuinely shocked.

Once again, this is someone who graduated from Harvard Law School.

This week, Donald Trump offered $5 million if the president would
release his college records and passport application. Like everyone
else, I thought that this was just a cheap political stunt by Trump.
But if he can't do 8th grade algebra, then how well could he have done
at Harvard Law School? Now I think that there's going to be a lot
more to the college records story, though it may not come out for a
while.

Almost makes you wish that Jimmy Carter were back. At least he was an
engineer.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by John » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:30 pm

A couple of school-related memories.

When I was in 8th grade math, I remember that the math teacher was
teaching about exponents. One of the other students asked him,
"Suppose you have to figure out something like 7 to the power 59. Is
there is any simple way to do it, or do you just have to multiply it
out 59 times?"

I remember the 8th grade math teacher's response vividly: "I think
that there's some way to do 7 of them at a time. You'll learn about
it in high school." I remember thinking that this answer made no
sense at all. As I now recall, logarithms are taught in 9th grade
algebra, so I guess 8th grade math was the limit of this guy's
education. But at least he was teaching stuff at his level, so that's
ok.

But the same can't be said of my son's math teacher.

In the 1990s, when my son Jason was in high school, he showed me a
math test where he had been marked wrong on several questions that he
obviously got right. So I went to the school to talk to the math
teacher about the test. He kept me waiting for an hour, while he sat
there twiddling his thumbs pretending to be busy, then he told me he
was too busy to talk to me, and to make an appointment. So I said,
OK, let's make an appointment. He told me to call him next week. I
was REALLY pissed, but I left.

This guy was a total idiot, and he was in the Wayland, Mass, school
system which, my ex-wife never ceased telling me, was the best school
system in the world. So if the "best" school system in the world was
staffed by idiots, one can imagine what happens in lesser school
systems.

However, the outcome turned out to be OK anyway. After that, the
teacher didn't dare to screw with Jason any more, since he knew that
if he did, then I'd be back. I doubt that other students were
so lucky, however.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by Higgenbotham » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:32 pm

John wrote:Dear Higgie,

Obama's remark to Leno really crystallized my thinking on this point.
If he's unable to help his daughter solve a quadratic equation -- even
while sitting with his daughter, with all the time in the world, and
with the quadratic formula right in front of him in his daughter's
textbook -- then how can he have any clue what's going on in the
world?
I had no idea the man is that stupid. I agree with all your conclusions based on that.

I can understand why few would be able to solve the pipe problem I posted above, or really just the area part of the problem.

But, to me anyway, the quadratic formula seems so basic that anyone of average intelligence should be able to apply it, if the formula is in front of them. If Obama can't, then there's a real vulnerability with the man's lack of intelligence.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by John » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:42 pm

Dear Higgie,
Higgenbotham wrote: > I think both of them could if you laid the equation out that is to
> be solved, explained what a, b, and c are, then gave them the
> quadratic formula. Otherwise, if they haven't used the formula in
> the past year, I doubt either would remember it.

> If you put an equation in front of them like x2 - 4x - 21 = 0, and
> asked them to give both solutions in less than 15 seconds by just
> looking at it, I doubt either of them could do it. I would wonder
> what fraction of the US adult population could. Maybe somewhere
> between 0.1 and 1%?
I believe that what Obama said is that he can't solve a quadratic
equation no matter how much time he has, even with his daughter's
textbook in front of him.

Recall that the quadratic formula contains a square root sign. Could
Obama, or any but 1% of the politicians, be able to answer the
question, "To the nearest integer, what is the square root of 10?" I
doubt it.

I realize that solving quadratic equations is not in the job
description to be president. But I'm making a deeper point. I've
written hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times expressing enormous
contempt for politicians who don't have the vaguest clue what's going
on in the world. I've had a "scorched earth" policy for politicians
in America and in Europe, on the left and on the right, and for
so-called "experts" on CNBC and Bloomberg TV. If I had to pick one
that epitomizes the greatest stupidity of all, it would be Nobel Prize
Winner Paul Krugman.

Obama's remark to Leno really crystallized my thinking on this point.
If he's unable to help his daughter solve a quadratic equation -- even
while sitting with his daughter, with all the time in the world, and
with the quadratic formula right in front of him in his daughter's
textbook -- then how can he have any clue what's going on in the
world?

To understand what's going on in the world, then you have to
understand the difference between cause and effect, between causation
and correlation, as well as simple logical reasoning. All of that
would be well beyond someone who can't figure out how to help his
daughter's algebra homework.

** System Dynamics and the Failure of Macroeconomics Theory
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... acro061025


Higgie, you'll recall the above article that I posted in 2006. You
wrote to me at the time that you had no trouble solving Sterman's
system dynamics problem.

So you'll understand how serious the situation is. Sterman's problem
requires no more mathematics than the ability to count to 100. But it
does require the ability to do simple logical reasoning, much simpler
than the logical reasoning that a President would have to do every
day. But most MIT students get it wrong, and many are completely
stumped. It's totally hopeless among mainstream politicians and
economists. No wonder they all sound like idiots, and make decisions
and reach conclusions that reflect their innate idiocy.

This weekend, we have the European leaders in Brussels trying to
figure out how to solve the financial crisis. Can you imagine a
dumber bunch of baboons doing that?

Mathematics is a big part of Generational Dynamics theory, and I
personally don't believe that anyone who can't help his daughter solve
a quadratic equation, or who can't solve Sterman's simple system
dynamics problem, should be trusted to make any decisions more
complicated than whether they want pickles with their hamburgers.

Today we have Gen-Xers with no experience, absorbed with hatred of
Boomers and thus unwilling to learn from the experience of Boomers,
and incapable of anything close to logical reasoning, making
decisions. No wonder history is littered with catastrophes, with the
next catastrophe right around the corner.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by Higgenbotham » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:13 am

I worked in a manufacturing plant that employed a lot of technicians and engineers. Maintenance was working with a long section of pipe, I think it was 4 inches in inside diameter. The pipe was coiled (it was a heat exchanger). The maintenance manager (he was over the 3 shifts of maintenance in the plant) was trying to figure out how much oil was in the pipe.

The cool thing about the Internet is I can now go to his linkedin profile and get his background. It says, among other things:

"Past: Director of Engineering at PepsiCo - Quaker Oats
Education: US Navy Nuclear Power School"

We were working in a plant owned by PepsiCo and apparently he worked his way all the way to a Director of Engineering position at the company (without knowing how to do high school geometry - explained below).

He said we have a section of pipe so many feet long (it seems like it was somewhere around 150 feet long) lying horizontally and there's one inch of oil in the bottom of it. We want to drain it into a container. How much oil is in the pipe?

I would guess 1 person in 5 who has worked their way to a Director of Engineering position at a US corporation could solve that problem.

PS - I changed the ID to 4 inches. This way a student can get an exact solution to the area without using a calculator. The answer is the area covered by the oil is 4*pi/3 - 2 (square inches). Knowing that area, the engineer could then easily calculate the volume of oil.

I think this is a good problem for a high school math teacher to put in front of their class.

Re: 28-Oct-12 WV-Berlusconi threatens Italy's government

by Higgenbotham » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:48 am

John wrote:You really think that he's able to solve a quadratic equation? I don't.
I wonder if Romney can?
I think both of them could if you laid the equation out that is to be solved, explained what a, b, and c are, then gave them the quadratic formula. Otherwise, if they haven't used the formula in the past year, I doubt either would remember it.

If you put an equation in front of them like x2 - 4x - 21 = 0, and asked them to give both solutions in less than 15 seconds by just looking at it, I doubt either of them could do it. I would wonder what fraction of the US adult population could. Maybe somewhere between 0.1 and 1%?

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