6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

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Expand view Topic review: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by Higgenbotham » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:05 am

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/news_even ... fm?id=4555
Minneapolis Fed President wrote:So, the FOMC can influence the economy through various forms of forward guidance about how long it plans for the fed funds rate to be so low. However, the FOMC has another tool at its disposal: what is often termed quantitative easing—QE for short. Under quantitative easing, the FOMC buys long-term securities in the open market. In exchange for those securities, it credits the sellers’ accounts at the Fed with more reserves. The upshot is that there are fewer long-term securities being held by private investors, and banks hold more reserves.
The Minneapolis Fed President is playing it straight as far as the process.
Minneapolis Fed President wrote:Second, QE creates more reserves in banks’ accounts with the Fed. The standard intuition is that this kind of reserve creation is inflationary. Banks can only offer checkable deposits in proportion to their reserves. Economists view checkable deposits as a form of money because, like cash, checkable deposits make many transactions easier. In this sense, bank reserves held with the Fed are licenses for banks to create a certain amount of money. By giving out more licenses, the FOMC is allowing banks to create more money. More money chasing the same amount of goods—voila, inflation.

This basic logic isn’t valid in current circumstances, because reserves are paying interest equal to comparable market interest rates. Banks have nearly $1 trillion of excess reserves. This means that they are not using a lot of their existing licenses to create money. QE gives them new licenses to create money, but I do not see why they would suddenly start to use the new ones if they weren’t using the old ones. With that said, I have indicated in earlier speeches that $1 trillion of excess reserves does create a potential for high inflation at some point in the future if the FOMC does not react sufficiently fast when it starts to see inflationary pressures. But I do not see this risk as being heightened in any meaningful way by banks holding even more excess reserves than what they are holding today.
OK, fair enough, though that much is obvious. He doesn't need to speculate about when or how that will change. That's our job. But that leads back to the question of why, then, are they doing this. My guess is still that it is to get around Congress and do a second round of bailouts, as the real estate market has started to decline again.

I read another Fed piece that basically said, "Don't focus on the reserves, focus on the asset side of the balance sheet." Well, since the NY Fed and the REMICS filed a lawsuit against B of A, and if B of A has to take back their fraudulent mortages I would think that is going to come out of their reserve account.
Banks’ costs from repurchasing mortgages in securities without government backing may total as much as $179.2 billion, Compass Point Research and Trading LLC analyst Chris Gamaitoni estimated in August, including expenses related to lawsuits against bond underwriters.
It's going to be a lot more if real estate prices keep falling. How does closer to $600 billion sound?
“The Fed does have this authority to work with confidential consumer data,” he said. “But I think to use that authority to then bring suit while wearing their other hat here as a lender of last resort and bailout authority would be untoward at best.”
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-1 ... elief.html

In Step 4 below, substitute 2011 for February 11, 2010, substitute "Banks" as in "Bank of America" for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and substitute "Blackrock" or "Pimco" for investors. Of course, they are still investors, but just to be a bit more specific. The banks will still take a hit, so that's why they will fight this instead of doing it voluntarily. I suppose it's possible the banks will be put into receivership. I don't know anything about how that would work. In Step 5, add another $600 billion. Step 6 depends on how it's structured, I guess.
Hussman wrote:Step 4: On February 11, 2010, with Treasury backing in place, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (whose delinquency rates have more than doubled over the past year) announce the purchase of $200 billion in delinquent mortgages that they had previously guaranteed. The entire remaining principal balance will be paid to investors at face value. This action provides a glimpse into the future: Fannie and Freddie take bad mortgages onto their balance sheets, extinguish the MBS securities at face value, and rely on Treasury funding to fill the gap.

Step 5: In the next few years, the U.S. Treasury can be expected to issue up to $1.5 trillion in new Treasury debt to the public, taking in much of the $1.5 trillion in base money created by the Fed in Step 1.

Step 6: Proceeds (base money) received from new Treasury debt issuance are periodically transferred to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in order to cover cumulative balance sheet losses.
http://www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc100216.htm

Something like that anyway is my guess as to what is really going down.

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by Higgenbotham » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:46 am

arrowrod wrote:Do any of you have jobs that actually produce something tangible?
I used to, but don't anymore. For about 10 years, I've spent all my time shifting money around to try to stay one step ahead of the Central Banker pirates and the Wall Street pirates. I guess it depends on how much savings you have to protect as to whether that is worthwhile. I've managed to avoid the real estate and stock market losses and make a few percent per year on top of it. But when the time comes, if it ever does, that having good job skills pays better than money shifting, then I won't have them. So all that has to be weighed carefully by every individual. And of course, if someone chooses the money shifting route because they are close to retirement anyway, then they cannot afford to make any errors at all. It's not like people who do this get something for nothing. There's a lot of stress involved because you MUST be right. Your pension fund or whatever may be bailed out but I won't. In a Depression, everyone loses and he who loses the least is the winner. In my case, I'm making the tradeoff of job skills for preservation of capital. I didn't want to do that, but didn't have time to do both. Staying ahead of Greenspan, Goldman etc. is a full time job.

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by Higgenbotham » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:33 am

vincecate wrote:
Higgenbotham wrote:
Bernanke explained that the money to buy the bonds comes from deposits that banks place in reserve at the Fed.
I have no idea what this means, not a clue. If anyone can explain it, feel free.
The intent was that you not understand. The truth, that they are just making new fiat money out of thin air, is revolting and scary. People instinctively know you can not really get something for nothing. There must be a dark side to this trick. When people really understand is when the hyperinflation will start.

What he must mean is the Fed is crediting the banks reserve account at the Fed to pay for the bonds. It is just adding number to an account on a computer.
Higgenbotham wrote: PS: I will reword Bernanke's statement to reflect what I understand to be the reality. "Higgie explained that the money to buy the bonds (comes from deposits) is created out of thin air by the Fed and credited as a deposit that banks place in reserve at the Fed." That's the closest I can come to making a true statement while at the same time making minimal changes to the wording of the statement from the news story.
Yes, that is it.
I googled for the phrase I quoted from the news story. Found 4 results. All were regurgitations of the news story. Not one discussion on the Internet regarding the veracity of this quote. Three decades ago I used to read books about abusive Central Bankers and remember one author describing a situation as, "The sheep were given another round of shearing."

At the moment, I see the effect of the $600 billion as a backdoor bailout tax. It amounts to $2000 per person in the US. It's not insignificant and will be paid in higher prices than ordinarily would have occurred. It doesn't even mean prices have to go up. Instead of calling it Quantitative Easing 2, I kind of like calling it Sheep Shearing 2.

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by vincecate » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:36 pm

arrowrod wrote:How much money was destroyed during the mortgage debacle?
It is really hard to say. For example, the government has suspended "mark to market" and implemented a "mark to fantasy" so the books the banks keep are mostly fantasy. Another problem is that the Fed bought up $1.7 trillion of mostly toxic assets for full value. This sort of un-destroyed some of the destroyed credit. :-)
arrowrod wrote: I see a lot of pontificating as if Bernanke is trying to destroy the U.S. Do any of you believe that?
I don't think anyone thinks he is destroying the U.S. on purpose. Like many central bankers before him he is walking down the path to hyperinflation with the best of intentions. Events push this way and that. I think there have been about 100 cases of hyperinflation (using a 5% per month or 80% per year threshold) and I don't think in any case was there ever a meeting where they took a vote and said, "raise your hand if you are in favor of hyperinflation" and decided to have hyperinflation. It does not work that way. Hyperinflation is where the powers that be lose control of circumstances.
arrowrod wrote: I'm guessing 8-11 trillion dollars was destroyed in the past 4 years. Am I wrong? Injecting 2 or 3 trillion dollars is not enough.
My guess is like $1 to $3 trillion. I think Higgenbotham, John, Krugman, Mish, and others are thinking $6 trillion or more. But it is really hard for anyone to say.
arrowrod wrote: I see some of you guessing $1000 bills will soon be in circulation. Why?
I think we are headed for hyperinflation and a $100 bill will just not be big enough. Armored cars will have trouble moving enough money and vaults will have trouble holding enough. They will need a larger bill. This URL gets to my stuff on hyperinflation. I might be the only one in this forum that expects hyperinflation though.
http://pair.offshore.ai/38yearcycle/#hyperinflation

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by vincecate » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:36 pm

Higgenbotham wrote: My thought was the reporter didn't hear what he said, but if that's what he really said in the last line I quoted, God help us all.
God help us all.
Higgenbotham wrote:
Bernanke explained that the money to buy the bonds comes from deposits that banks place in reserve at the Fed.
I have no idea what this means, not a clue. If anyone can explain it, feel free.
The intent was that you not understand. The truth, that they are just making new fiat money out of thin air, is revolting and scary. People instinctively know you can not really get something for nothing. There must be a dark side to this trick. When people really understand is when the hyperinflation will start.

What he must mean is the Fed is crediting the banks reserve account at the Fed to pay for the bonds. It is just adding number to an account on a computer.
Higgenbotham wrote: PS: I will reword Bernanke's statement to reflect what I understand to be the reality. "Higgie explained that the money to buy the bonds (comes from deposits) is created out of thin air by the Fed and credited as a deposit that banks place in reserve at the Fed." That's the closest I can come to making a true statement while at the same time making minimal changes to the wording of the statement from the news story.
Yes, that is it.

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by arrowrod » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:32 pm

How much money was destroyed during the mortgage debacle?

I see a lot of pontificating as if Bernanke is trying to destroy the U.S. Do any of you believe that?
I'm guessing 8-11 trillion dollars was destroyed in the past 4 years. Am I wrong? Injecting 2 or 3 trillion dollars is not enough.

I see some of you guessing $1000 bills will soon be in circulation. Why? Does anybody still use currency?

Do any of you have jobs that actually produce something tangible? I know that the Goldman Sachs boys think they are very clever, but are they really? I believe they are cheaters, protected by their revolving door relationship with the Feds.

Anyway, nothing to report here, go on about your business.

Oh, yeah.. robots are coming.

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by vincecate » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:40 pm

John wrote: 1. You say that the Fed can "print" an unlimited amount of money. But as I've been saying, that's politically impossible. You're seeing that today. The Fed's "modest" QE program is generating an enormous political backlash, both nationally and internationally.
The Fed at $100 billion per month will be essentially covering the whole deficit of the US Federal government. This is not a "modest" amount of money by most measures.

I don't mean that they can print an unlimited amount this month, Ben would get in trouble. But if people stop buying government bonds and want cash for bonds they hold as they come due, the political pressure on Ben will be to buy more and more bonds so the government can pay off the bonds coming due. The backlash internationally will be that they dump their bonds and stop buying new bonds. This will add to political pressure for the Fed to print/buy more.

I think we are less than 2 years from when they start printing/circulating $1,000 bills. Other central banks worked with political pressure to make hyperinflation. I expect the US central bank will too.
John wrote: Once again, I can make the point that a so-called "gold standard" is completely irrelevant. If the politicians want to weaken the currency, then a gold standard won't stand in the way; if the politicians don't want to weaken the currency, then a gold standard is irrelevant.

2. When I wrote about an international "race to the bottom," you said that this would weaken the dollar and create (hyper)inflation. Once again, that's impossible. You can't weaken all currencies at once. When one currency weakens, another strengthens. If there's a race to the bottom, then all currencies remain equally weak or strong.
You may be imagining that when China prints yuan they buy up dollars or yen and so take some of those out of circulation. This is not the only way things can go. They can just print money and spend it (ok some bonds may change hands between central bank and government). The US will not be buying up any other currencies when they print money.

Don't think about any "gold standard". Think about my 1/10th oz gold coins or 1 oz gold Kugerands or something. Or silver coins. US customs classifies pure gold coins with a stamped weight as "currency" not merchandise. The currency symbol for gold is XAU and the units are 1 oz. Really.

Now all the paper currencies can "race to the bottom" as each country prints more of their paper. Theoretically they might even each maintain the same ratio to dollars that they had at the start of the race. In this case the "dollar index" would stay the same. So in this sense it could well look like the dollar is not getting stronger or weaker relative to other paper currencies. But nobody is printing gold like that, so it is not part of the race to the bottom. When the race starts the best currencies to hold are gold and silver. These get more and more valuable when measured against any of the paper currencies in the race. Also, commodities get more expensive when measured in a rapidly printed currencies. Seems like the race has started.

I really expect all the paper currencies to weaken when measured against commodities or the two hard currencies, gold and silver. Most paper currencies are backed by dollars, so when the dollar falls they will fall too, even if they were not trying to be part of the race. Again, it seems like the race has started.
John wrote: 3. Meanwhile, the CPI keeps falling into deflation levels, as it did in America in the 1930s and in Japan in the last 20 years. This is generational, and QE has nothing to do with it.

I cannot see any realistic scenario that leads to any sort of inflation.
The CPI is not falling 30% like it did in the 1930-1933 timeframe when people were taking gold coins out of the Fed's Ponzi gold standard where they had 2.5 paper dollars for every dollars worth of gold while saying all paper dollars could be turned in for gold. Also, the CPI is rigged now.

If you think printing money has nothing to do with inflation, why have taxes? Why not just print money for all government expenses? The $100 billion per month printing is about 40% of the Federal governments spending. Why not just cancel every kind of Federal tax and print $250 billion per month?

Most people hold short term bonds now. If people stop buying bonds and are getting their bonds paid off as they come due, the government/Fed is going to have to print a huge amount of money. Maybe $4 trillion to cover bonds coming due in the next 12 months. How is this not a realistic scenario for inflation?

Note, there are many real countries that have already tried printing money for all their deficit spending. If deficit spending/printing is like 40% of government spending it always causes big inflation. Always. When inflation is clearly higher than bond interest rates people stop buying bonds. With debt levels of 80+% of GNP and deficit spending of 40+% of spending, then when bond sales fail and the government/central-bank has to print to cover bonds coming due it always causes hyperinflation. I link to a couple books in my document that cover some of this history.

I am expecting you and Mish to understand hyperinflation right before the rest of the world does. Be sure and let me know when you do. :-)

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by John » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:18 pm

Dear Vince,

Here are some things for you to think about.

1. You say that the Fed can "print" an unlimited amount of money. But
as I've been saying, that's politically impossible. You're seeing
that today. The Fed's "modest" QE program is generating an enormous
political backlash, both nationally and internationally.

Once again, I can make the point that a so-called "gold standard" is
completely irrelevant. If the politicians want to weaken the
currency, then a gold standard won't stand in the way; if the
politicians don't want to weaken the currency, then a gold standard is
irrelevant.

2. When I wrote about an international "race to the bottom," you said
that this would weaken the dollar and create (hyper)inflation. Once
again, that's impossible. You can't weaken all currencies at once.
When one currency weakens, another strengthens. If there's a race to
the bottom, then all currencies remain equally weak or strong.

3. Meanwhile, the CPI keeps falling into deflation levels, as it did
in America in the 1930s and in Japan in the last 20 years. This is
generational, and QE has nothing to do with it.

I cannot see any realistic scenario that leads to any sort of
inflation.

John

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by vincecate » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:46 pm

I watched a video of Bernanke saying some people are afraid that "quantitative easing" is some new and untested policy where they don't know how it will work out. So he tried to reassure people by saying, "it is just monetary policy". He can not explain it in simple terms of "printing money", as people would be very afraid. So today I found one more euphemism for printing money to add to my list, "just monetary policy". :-)

Re: 6-Nov-10 News -- International fury at quantitative easing

by Higgenbotham » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:21 pm

John wrote:Do you guys want me to move the posts in this thread
to some other thread?

John
I think we're OK here as all of this has to do with QE.

One last thing. I was talking about a $6 trillion deflationary hole that is growing. But I should say this. If Krugman was saying $8-10 trillion in QE2 would be needed to stop deflation, he is probably right (that is probably the actual size of the hole or its projected size in a few months). Since I can only look at public information and guess, his numbers should be better than anything I can come up with. We would hope anyway.

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