23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

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Expand view Topic review: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by Guest » Thu May 24, 2018 4:41 pm

Guest wrote:In North Carolina, a homeowner has the right to kill intruders. The law was amended to say the homeowner doesn't even have to prove that he was under threat. People can't just burst into someone's home and expect to get away with it. Deadly force is allowed. In Texas, deadly force is allowed in defense of property after dark. Glad I don't live in a liberal state in the US or even hopeless Europe.
I expect that Italy's proposal would bring Italy's law closer to laws in "castle doctrine" states in the US.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by Guest » Thu May 24, 2018 9:06 am

In North Carolina, a homeowner has the right to kill intruders. The law was amended to say the homeowner doesn't even have to prove that he was under threat. People can't just burst into someone's home and expect to get away with it. Deadly force is allowed. In Texas, deadly force is allowed in defense of property after dark. Glad I don't live in a liberal state in the US or even hopeless Europe.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by Guest » Thu May 24, 2018 1:06 am

A front row seat wrote:Meanwhile, in the UK:
Tax rises needed 'to prevent NHS misery'
Some highlights from the BBC (who always omit the true reasons for virtually everything)

That would mean spending as a proportion of national income rising from 8.4% currently to 11.4%.

The report said it was "hard to imagine" raising that sort of money without increases in taxes. :roll:

To increase spending by that amount, it would require rises of 3p in the pound on each of income tax, VAT and National Insurance by 2033.

Although the report said other options, including taxes on property and businesses, could be explored too. ;)
And this little tidbit was like a cherry on top...
Meanwhile, a report from the Care Quality Commission on A&E performance warned that some patients received care that was "wholly unsatisfactory".(Insert vomiting smiley face here)



I guess adding 10 -12 million migrants to the hospital rolls and school system isn't really working out, but at least the UK has a diverse selection of restaurants for beleaguered taxpayers to choose from...
They should just follow the Italian way and both increase spending and lower taxes. I understand that is a combination guaranteed to reduce national debt.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by A front row seat » Wed May 23, 2018 11:07 pm

Meanwhile, in the UK:
Tax rises needed 'to prevent NHS misery'
Some highlights from the BBC (who always omit the true reasons for virtually everything)

That would mean spending as a proportion of national income rising from 8.4% currently to 11.4%.

The report said it was "hard to imagine" raising that sort of money without increases in taxes. :roll:

To increase spending by that amount, it would require rises of 3p in the pound on each of income tax, VAT and National Insurance by 2033.

Although the report said other options, including taxes on property and businesses, could be explored too. ;)
And this little tidbit was like a cherry on top...
Meanwhile, a report from the Care Quality Commission on A&E performance warned that some patients received care that was "wholly unsatisfactory".(Insert vomiting smiley face here)



I guess adding 10 -12 million migrants to the hospital rolls and school system isn't really working out, but at least the UK has a diverse selection of restaurants for beleaguered taxpayers to choose from...

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by Guest » Wed May 23, 2018 8:37 pm

John wrote:
Guest wrote: > I am basing my assumption on previous statements by Salvini and
> common sense.
Well, good luck with that. Politicians are rarely consistent with
previous statements, and if you go through the list of proposals, then
they're all pretty much the opposite of common sense.
Okay. Good point.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by John » Wed May 23, 2018 7:37 pm

Guest wrote: > I am basing my assumption on previous statements by Salvini and
> common sense.
Well, good luck with that. Politicians are rarely consistent with
previous statements, and if you go through the list of proposals, then
they're all pretty much the opposite of common sense.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by Guest » Wed May 23, 2018 4:57 pm

John wrote:
> In the name of self-defense individuals would be allowed to shoot
> anyone who enters their home, even in the absence of a clear
> physical threat.
...

The sentence of mine that you quoted was copied word for word from the
AFP source I referenced in the article:
Yes, I am aware that it was verbatim from AFP; I should have been more clear that I am suggesting that AFP has poor wording. The AFP statement was not in quotes and was certainly a paraphrase. Most likely a poor one.

AFP is generally pretty reliable, and the article claims to be
summarizing the key proposals from the policy document published by Di
Maio and Salvini.
I was unable to find the actual policy document online. If you can
find it online, then please post a link to it, and let's take a look
at how the actual policy document describes the proposal.
I am basing my assumption on previous statements by Salvini and common sense. I don't think anyone (no, not even Italian politicians) would be hare-brained enough to think that attacking invited guests for entering your home was any kind of self-defence. The law favoured by Silvani's Northern League other minority parties back in May 2017 (see AFP's article), would remove the requirement to prove "proportionality" for defence in cases like night-time break-ins. I am assuming it is the same law that is included it the joint proposal.

Although the article says the document is "published," I can't find it online either. If anyone can find this policy proposal please post a link.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by John » Wed May 23, 2018 2:16 pm

> In the name of self-defense individuals would be allowed to shoot
> anyone who enters their home, even in the absence of a clear
> physical threat.
Guest wrote: > This is a poor wording. The terminology "anyone who enters their
> home" does not make clear that this law only applies to defense
> against home invaders, not shooting invited guests.

> Salvini himself has been more careful in his wording. This is
> what he said in February, "We’d pass a sane law on self-defense
> which would sanction a sacrosanct principle which is: that
> self-defense inside one’s house is always legitimate defense, no
> matter what."
> (https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/02/matte ... are-women/)
The sentence of mine that you quoted was copied word for word from the
AFP source I referenced in the article:
> In the name of self-defence individuals would be allowed to shoot
> anyone who enters their home, even in the absence of a clear
> physical threat. This is something Salvini's League has campaigned
> for after several high-profile cases in which people have faced
> charges for shooting burglars.

> https://www.thelocal.it/20180518/here-a ... -programme
AFP is generally pretty reliable, and the article claims to be
summarizing the key proposals from the policy document published by Di
Maio and Salvini.

I was unable to find the actual policy document online. If you can
find it online, then please post a link to it, and let's take a look
at how the actual policy document describes the proposal.

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by Guest » Wed May 23, 2018 1:40 pm

In the name of self-defense individuals would be allowed to shoot anyone who enters their home, even in the absence of a clear physical threat.
This is a poor wording. The terminology "anyone who enters their home" does not make clear that this law only applies to defense against home invaders, not shooting invited guests.

Salvini himself has been more careful in his wording. This is what he said in February, "We’d pass a sane law on self-defense which would sanction a sacrosanct principle which is: that self-defense inside one’s house is always legitimate defense, no matter what." (https://gatesofvienna.net/2018/02/matte ... are-women/)

Re: 23-May-18 World View -- European markets in turmoil over Italy's unbridled spending proposals

by sue » Wed May 23, 2018 7:48 am

Shades of Greece and America. Italians didn't drag Mussilini through the streets until after the country "went Nazi". Culturally Italians sometimes come off as less couth and cowardly French, except of course for the mafia element and political/economically conscious Vatican.
What John describes in section 2 sounds like present congressional/Trump policies. This is an international farce satire unless you are one of the peasants and not the disconnected and privileged ruling class.
Soros' evil third world universal vision.comes closer to reality. Either more migrants invading every populated continent or armed expulsions and international wars. Since words no longer have common definitions, finding peaceful solutions among fallen humans of questionable intent seems beyond remote.

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