Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

[Guest]

San Francisco man says he's witnessing 'collapse' of Western civilization a month after Newsom promised aid
San Francisco has 'become a fourth world country within a first world country,' Gen Z activist says

‘Decline of Western civilization’ starting in San Francisco, Gen Z activist says
A California man who has documented San Francisco's drug and crime crises for years says the city may be the first domino in the "decline of Western civilization."

One month after California Gov. Gavin Newsom promised to crack down on San Francisco's open-air drug markets, a Gen Z activist says far-left politics have made the city a "fourth world country within a first world country."

"We are witnessing the collapse of the Paris of the West and potentially the decline of Western civilization, with San Francisco being the first domino," Darren Mark Stallcup told Fox News.

Stallcup documents the drug and homeless crises in San Francisco — which he refers to as a "fentanyl genocide" — on Twitter. His videos show tent-lined streets, people appearing to overdose or behave erratically under the influence of drugs, violent altercations, crime and more.

"When I go out every morning and count the bodies, when I'm documenting the fentanyl genocide happening in our community," Stallcup said, "my goal is to show the world what's really happening on the streets of San Francisco."

Overdose deaths have soared across California and in the Golden City, where 647 people died from drug overdoses last year. San Francisco is on pace to surpass that figure again this year.

"We have a beautiful city," the 26-year-old Bay Area native said. "Generations of people, good men and women, built this city. Generations of blood, sweat and tears. And I hate to see it all crumble in a decade just because people can't stop voting for this chaos."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/san-franc ... omised-aid

[Guest]

Owner Of San Francisco’s Biggest Hotel Stops Debt Payments

Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ).

The nice Paul Guest
June 7, 2023, 7:20 am
SF is intriguing to me. For many years it's felt like an over-priced destination, with a public realm that just keeps on deteriorating: the amount of homeless sleepers and "tent cities" is, to most Western European eyes, extraordinary. And, as you walk the streets, the stench of cannabis is pervasive. The hotels have also mostly been below-standard for a long time: as an example, SF seems to have led the charge at removing facilities like full breakfast or room service. On my last visit there an allegedly middle-market city centre hotel only had flasks of stewed (bitter & weak) filter coffee for breakfast, and muffins. One of the hotels you mentioned -- the Hilton Union Square -- struck me as being particularly dismal. On a tour a couple of years back the manager proudly said how they were in the middle of a major refurbishment programme; I asked when the dark and dingy lobby we were in would be done, and he explained that it had already been done... I still love some aspects of SF, but it seems like it is now increasingly a poster child for the consequences of "private wealth but public squalor". It used to be sold to conference managers as a destination that usually added ~20% to the registration numbers over other cities. I don't think the people I work with feel the same any more.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/owner-s ... -payments/

[Bob Butler]

Bob,

Feel free to post your political troll garbage in your own thread. The history of you posting troll garbage is well known and longstanding; rest assured, nothing will change in John's absence, so you should continue to feel quite at home here too.

I shall continue to respond to posts in the thread they were made, especially the personal attack posts. I would add that reducing personal attacks in addition to reducing foul language are legitimate functions moderators typically limit themselves to in legitimate forums. Censoring ideas is not. One should respond under a non moderator name. If you had any respect, that would be adequate. Whether you do not feel you have is your problem. For the most part respecting ideas was not a problem when John was around. You are corrupting his forum badly.

In hindsight, I would use the word 'autocratic' instead of 'communist'. There would be less quibbling over whether the same person filling the same role could continue to be described the same way. One would likely say Putin, Xi and Kim Jong Un play similar roles. Korea and China have not changed ruling cliques and thus still call themselves Communist. Putin arguably has, and no longer uses the description unpopular in some parts of the world, even if he. behaves in essentially the same way.

But the point remains the same. You seem to be more autocratic if you favor the oligarchs / robber barons, less if you favor the people. The Republicans have a greater uphill fight than the former and present 'Communist' countries, even if China works with Robber Barons as well as oligarchs these days. The US has a greater tradition of democracy. If the Republicans are fighting the election and justice systems of late, they will encounter more resistance. Those elections and rule of law are supposed to be held independent of partisan politics. Conviction depends on whether a crime has been committed rather than if they are a political opponent. The attempts to implement partisan corruption will meet resistance.

[Clarkmod]

Bob,

Feel free to post your political troll garbage in your own thread. The history of you posting troll garbage is well known and longstanding; rest assured, nothing will change in John's absence, so you should continue to feel quite at home here too.

I shall continue to respond to posts in the thread they were made, especially the personal attack posts. I would add that reducing personal attacks in addition to reducing foul language are legitimate functions moderators typically limit themselves to in legitimate forums. Censoring ideas is not. One should respond under a non moderator name. If you had any respect, that would be adequate. Whether you do not feel you have is your problem. For the most part respecting ideas was not a problem when John was around. You are corrupting his forum badly.

Bob,

You want to pretend something new is happening. There's nothing new. You've been doing this type of thing for years. The details have already been spelled out in other instances and it's not necessary for me to continue rolling in the weeds with you.

** 18-Jan-2021 World View: Why are you here?

> I am against censorship, but this is mostly practiced by John. The
> crackdown is on criminal activity which is not a civil liberty.

No, I haven't censored anything of yours. Hijacking other people's
threads with offensive garbage is not a civil liberty, and cracking
down on it is not censorship. Every offensive piece of garbage you've
posted is still online, unedited. That's not censorship. So that's
your lie #1.

You say you're against censorship, but then in the next sentence you
say that censorship is fine when it's about "criminal activity," which
is the excuse that all violent dictators use. The First Amendment
says nothing about "criminal activity." So that's your lie #2.

You say that members of this forum "regularly complain about the
crackdown on criminal activity." I asked you for specific examples,
with links, but you can't. That's your lie #3.

Furthermore, shutting down Donald Trump's twitter feed is clearly
censorship having nothing to do with so-called criminal activity. So
that's your lie #4.

Ironically, you're right about one thing. The Democrats, the
mainstream media, and social media all colluded to institute a massive
censorship effort to censor Hunter Biden's criminal activity. But of
course, that's the opposite of what you mean. That wasn't censorship
of criminal activity. That was censoring reports of Hunter Biden's
criminal activity.

> There is no evidence of a rigged election.

No, there is plenty of evidence of a rigged election. Talk to Warren
Dew in the other forum. That's your lie #5.

> The violence over the summer was not by any organization
> affiliated with the Democrats.

No, I said the antifa-blm fascist violence was SUPPORTED BY the
Democrats -- and by you -- in the name of "social justice." That's
supporting the antifa-blm violence, whether antifa-blm is an
organization affiliated with the Democrats or not. That's your lie
#6.

> John has persistently misrepresented my position.

No, I've represented your position as FAR LEFTIST THINKING, in
contrast to what you call "tribal thinking." And then I stated the
FAR LEFTIST THINKING policies. You haven't repudiated any of those
policies. The ones you mention at all you don't repudiate, but give
Baghdad Bob excuses for. Even if there are one or two of those
policies that you disagree with, you certainly agree with FAR LEFTIST
THINKING as a whole, so I didn't misrepresent your position. That's
your lie #6.

How many lies can you pack into a single post?

Those are truly evil policies, and the Democrats support them and you
support them. That makes the Democrats evil people, for supporting
evil policies. Just like Xi Jinping and the CCP are evil people, for
supporting the arrest, torture and enslavement of millions of Uighurs.
Democrats like Eric Swalwell, Dianne Feinstein, Hunter Biden and Joe
Biden are all totally compromised by the Chinese and Chinese money and
Chinese honeypots, so the Chinese Communist evil extends to the
Democrats.

But that's not the main problem. If you could rationally and lucidly
and inoffensively defend FAR LEFTIST POLICIES, that would be one
thing. But you don't do that. You're incapable of defending those
evil policies because they're evil. Instead, you attack and offend
members of this forum with the moronic accusation of "weird tribal
thinking" because they don't agree with your FAR LEFTIST POLICIES.
It's your behavior that's the problem -- your extremely offensive
behavior.

I've asked you several times -- why are you here? You're not going to
change any minds. So what are you trying to accomplish?

Answer the question:

Why are you here?
Why are you here?
Why are you here?
Why are you here?
Why are you here?
Why are you here?

[Bob Butler]

You want to pretend something new is happening. There's nothing new. You've been doing this type of thing for years. The details have already been spelled out in other instances and it's not necessary for me to continue rolling in the weeds with you.

First, there is something new. The old Republicans used to be an anti communist and rule of law party. To a great degree I supported them in those if not other areas. Nowadays there is talk of eliminating rule of law and of killing containment in support of the Ukraine. So, you lie. You lie to create an artificial and poor justification for censorship. If you want an end to rule of law and containment, you should argue for that as an ordinary user not by censoriship as a moderator.

Second, discussing things only with those who agree with you is not the way to learn and grow. Recently, I picked up the titbit on when to use the word 'authoritarian' as opposed to 'communist'. I've picked up bunch of other things as well, notably the instinct to oppress, hate and kill the different in conflict with the instinct to love thy neighbor. I see that now as at the core of many 'us' vs 'them' conflicts.

Are you proposing that 'us' should not communicate with 'them'? Groups can and should not try to learn and grow by exposing themselves to conflicting ideas? Is that the core of your censorship, your hatred of free speech, your determination to halt the spread of political ideas?

[Bob Butler]

A good long while ago I flew a dogfight. It was down in Atlanta where Skywarriors flew laser tag fights between two T-34 Mentors. Now, Mentors were originally used by the military to train fighter pilots, are two seat trainers, and thus are a good aircraft for such things. It is an obscure airplane though, so I note when I see them in use.

I recently saw one on YouTube. They had a 60 Minutes episode where Bill Anders of Apollo 8 was shown flying one, the photographer who took the famous Earthrise photograph. He had one painted up as a military fighter, complete with his name under the cockpit. He recently died in a plane crash. As far as I can tell it was in that same Mentor.

Skywarriors was eventually forced to shut down after a crash. A wing fell of the Mentor. It turns out if you do intense acrobatics in them, which you do even in amateur dogfights, the wings are stressed and weakened. They found cracks in the wings of other Mentors after the crash. Thus, the FAA pulled the permits on dogfighting in Mentors.

Not before Skywarriors gave Bud Anderson and Chuck Yeager a chance to go up against one another. two WW II aces. The cracks were obviously not an instant thing.

It makes me wonder if and how hard Bill Anders pushed his flying.

[Bob Butler]

Dr Fauci recently put out the book On Call, a biography with an emphasis on his years fighting infectious disease, including AIDS and Covid. It includes his interactions with the various presidents he served, including Trump. I haven't read it yet, he is in line behind Admiral Nimitz, but Trump's figuring a healthy economy would win him re election led him to value the economy over lives, resulting in the deaths of many of his followers. To this day part of MAGA avoids vaccines and a recent House committee meeting turned into a bunch of personal attacks on Fauci. I figure it would be a good book for Trump fans to avoid.

Unrelated, I get Meals on Wheels delivered regularly every weekday morning. Today my usual driver was accompanied by Miss Massachusetts, complete with crown and sash. It turns out she is his daughter. Part of the cost of the crown is performing the odd public service, and I guess delivering meals counts. Ah well. I hope it makes the chicken tastier.

[Bob Butler]

But if one is unwilling to compromise, if lack of compromise makes one no longer love America, one could always go to [expletive deleted].

You're saying this to a veteran and a true American patriot? A hard Leftist committed to Marxism and the destruction of American society would say this. You Leftist Communists are happy to tear down what you hate. Nihilists hate everything.
All Communists go to Hell.

Well, you are a bit confused about how I see the difference between Marxism and Communism. Marx saw a need to overthrow autocratic governments, much as the US founding fathers rejected George III. In Marx's lifetime you transformed governments by revolution - with few examples of votes - so you got him favoring a revolution of the people. On the other hand, Communists are autocrats. While a Marxist is in theory for the working people and uses violence to achieve that end, in practice a Communist is for himself.

Thus, a Democrat who favors the Revolution is sorta, kinda if you squint hard enough a Marxist, though they are moving beyond violence these days. It might be a last resort, but Democrats are enough with the people not to go that way. But if Trump is a wannabe dictator, a narcissist, out for himself, you don’t have to squint very hard to see the Republicans as Communists. That has always been the problem with Communists. They are out for their own wealth and power.

That little difference will probably will be rejected by people who don’t know how politics works, but is at the core of the November elections.

Boycott Disney!

Choke. Gasp. Cough. Agonize. Agreed.

[Bob Butler]

[Leftist political attack ad removed by Moderator.]

Liar. An ad would imply someone was paying me. Not true. You shouldn't lie and slander outright as a moderator, no matter Trump's behavior.

(I guess that would be a third legitimate function of a moderator. In addition to foul language and personal attacks, if someone is posting outright lies and 'conspiracy theories' they might be a valid target. On the other hand, this is a conservative site.)

And you are going to start removing rightist political attacks? Are you incapable of answering political posts, and must resort to censorship? Are you that stupid?

Anyway, Marxists are in theory for the working people. Communists are in practice for themselves. You can decide for yourself which Trump is.

At any rate, go to my thread if you'c care to see my reply to FullMoon.

But I also agree we should boycott Disney.

[Bob Butler]

I am into fantasy role playing, which to me is fiction with each player running one character. The head of the game creates a trouble filled world, and the characters are the heroes that overcome the problems in it. It’s just storytelling with each player shaping the part of one character.

One such world featured a game master character arch villain / hero called Dardan. The name translates from the elvish as “He Who Speaks Clearly”. Thing is, he could not speak clearly enough. No matter how well he convinced his people they were steering towards disaster, and he spoke most clearly that is what they were doing, they steered for disaster anyway. Elves were ‘esthetic’. They would always do the right and beautiful thing. They always had to be ‘esthetic’, to the point where every player In the game was sick of hearing the word. And no mater that if they continued to be predictably loyal to their values, no matter how clearly one spoke, over the cliff they would go rather than question their values.

My character came up with another name for Dardan. “He who acts obscurely”. Being unable to convince his people, he took to weird plots that weren’t understood until too late. The game for me was figuring out the weird plots and frustrating them. As a result, the plots failed, but the twisted threats that were part of them often manifested.

Thing is, if the plots worked, he would create a better world. More, shudder, esthetic. In stopping the arch villain / hero was one the real villain?

Anyway, my presence here has become an echo of the poor Dardan. No matter how clearly I present the problem, everyone insists on clinging to their values and heading for disaster anyway. They are so certain that the way they see the world is correct that no matter how clearly you state the upcoming problem and their doomed blind thinking, they head for disaster none the less. Is it possible to speak clearly enough? Is the problem not in speaking clearly but in the listeners? Are they that much locked into their beliefs?

That seems to be a significant theme in Strauss and Howe crisis theory. Every four score and seven years, a new birth of freedom. Except there are always fans of yesterday. There has always been a king, so there will always be, unless somebody holds a revolution. There have always been slaves, so there will always be, unless there is a civil war to free them. There have always been conquerers, so there will always be, unless an alliance is formed to contain them. There have always been autocrats, religious fanatics, bigots, elites, so there will always be, unless…

The other way to see crisis theory is as the rhythm and method by which cultures improve themselves. The greatest problems facing the culture are removed. The problem is people who find favor with the problems, How do you stop the new birth of freedom? How blind and insistent do you have to be to not see the biggest problem in the culture?

While Dardan’s creator is long gone, I wonder what he would think of the current crisis.