Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

An alternate home for the community from the legacy Fourth Turning Forum
Rhodie

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Rhodie »

Another guest wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:11 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:04 am
FullMoon wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:24 pm

Yes it was a dud a big dud. It was setup for the media because the last one gave them so much. But nobody showed up this time. I mean, why would they? Mr. Butler thinks so badly of his fellow countrymen.... Care to hurl.so insult now? I mean after you have argued incessantly about jan 6 being some kind of turning point?
Not so much a turning point, but a desperation time for Trump to overturn the Constitution and will of the people. He didn't have much other choice. He was out of other options.

The turning points were choosing the economy continuing well over fighting Covid and choosing 'law and order' supporting of continued racist oppression after George Floyd's death. These are also my choices for triggers of the current crisis. In choosing 'stay the same' over 'this cannot continue' he misjudged the people and the upcoming vote. The mood was for saving lives and equality, but he missed it.

Tying the Republicans to elite and racist interests worked through the unraveling. The approach does not need extraneous insults. One should just not expect it to continue unopposed indefinitely.
Sounds like an effective recipe for the collapse of America.
Look how good Zimbabwe turned out. You can't stop progress. Just ask the Rhodesians...

FullMoon
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:55 pm

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

Butler's been moved again. He wasn't being rude yet. But I suppose it's happened once too many times and always devolves into a shouting match. Macrocosm reflected in the microcosm. I wasn't expecting him to see how he's been using jan 6 'insurrection' blithely. It's his way, and the Way of the Left, to condemn others while elevating themselves. Self reflection is unapparent. Flip flopping hypocrisy will not begin to rectify the problems we should be working together on.

User avatar
Bob Butler
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am
Location: East of the moon, west of the sun
Contact:

Resolving the Greatest Issues

Post by Bob Butler »

Another guest wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:11 am
Sounds like an effective recipe for the collapse of America.
I consider the elite influence over the government and racist oppression as two of the biggest problems of the culture. Neither is advocated heavily here. Still, prior to the awakening, the Democrats (especially in the south) were racist while the Republicans were for the elites. No great choices there. Choose your evil. Then LBJ went after the black vote, the Republicans responded with the southern strategy, and as it turned out there were more racist votes than black votes. The result was the unravelling, and the greatest problems with the culture becoming obvious and tied together.

The crisis is about the greatest flaws in the culture being fixed. You expect these issues to be much debated and compromised about during the unraveling, but not definitively resolved until the crisis, and not hammered home until the high. This is not the same as “the collapse of America”. Prior crises got rid of kings, colonial imperialism, slavery, limits to expansion, the government not regulating the economy and isolationism. A crisis removes flaws, suppresses the cultural instinct to stay the same, to not solve problems. The Agricultural Age pattern involved much tribal thinking, the notion that one’s own group was supposedly superior to others which justifies oppression up to and including violence. America is just getting rid of a few more ancient flaws.

And this site seems to avoid dealing with the real issues of the time. How can a group dedicated to the study of history miss a crisis?

FullMoon
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:55 pm

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

The flaws which affect me and my family are those with which you not only condone but gleefully cheer for. Tyranny, violence and oppression. It's all been discussed as nauseum. You think you're doing good but actually are promoting the opposite. And you don't realize it.
Blaming others for their faults while claiming to be the good ones... Recipe for disaster every time it's occured in history. We do have at least that much historical knowledge. My grandfather flew B52, father cold warrior, and I only say things online as I watch in horror. I will flee, seems we're lost. The enemy is us and we refuse to recognize it

FullMoon
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:55 pm

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

"I consider the elite influence over the government and racist oppression as two of the biggest problems of the culture."
I agree with the first, second is more fabricated than not for the express purpose of dividing the people. The elites are controlling the government by dividing the people. Race is their choice par excellence

User avatar
Bob Butler
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am
Location: East of the moon, west of the sun
Contact:

Improving the Culture

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:25 pm
The flaws which affect me and my family are those with which you not only condone but gleefully cheer for. Tyranny, violence and oppression. It's all been discussed as nauseum. You think you're doing good but actually are promoting the opposite. And you don't realize it.
Blaming others for their faults while claiming to be the good ones... Recipe for disaster every time it's occured in history. We do have at least that much historical knowledge. My grandfather flew B52, father cold warrior, and I only say things online as I watch in horror. I will flee, seems we're lost. The enemy is us and we refuse to recognize it
Flaws in the culture as mentioned above have been removed in various crises. Each time, America became greater than before. The majority deciding the disease should be cured, violence suppressed, equality respected, the environment honored, the infrastructure maintained, is not tyranny.

I can understand that these problems might be seen less in rural areas. I can understand a culture that emphasizes individual responsibility over teamwork comes to exist in less population dense areas.

But the majority solving problems facing the culture is not tyranny. It might seem so to those clinging to old ideas, who disagree with the need to solve the problems. Gee, people should die of Covid. All men are not created equal. The environment should be messed up. Bridges should be allowed to fall. The status quo hurrah!

Blaming others for the faults while claiming to be the good ones has worked in each S&H crisis. Each crisis, the faults are fixed and the culture improved. Thus, your claim that crises do not improve the culture is quite absurd. Attempts to improve the culture do work at times, notably every four score and seven years.

But always there is a group which would rather see the problems not solved. If you insist that you belong to that faction, so be it.

FullMoon
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:55 pm

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

I understand your logic and it would be sound if the basic premises actually true. You start with shaky or mostly false premises and cherry pick details to paint a picture of your liking. It's a fundamental difference of perspective.
I'm a city person, reference to fleeing is for what I see in front of my face. My family is considered biracial person's of color. And white suburbanites like yourself will talk down to us because you know better. It's abhorrent

User avatar
Bob Butler
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am
Location: East of the moon, west of the sun
Contact:

Racism and Tribal Thinking

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:51 pm
I understand your logic and it would be sound if the basic premises actually true. You start with shaky or mostly false premises and cherry pick details to paint a picture of your liking. It's a fundamental difference of perspective.
I'm a city person, reference to fleeing is for what I see in front of my face. My family is considered biracial person's of color. And white suburbanites like yourself will talk down to us because you know better. It's abhorrent
That issue is equality, is tribal thinking. It is mostly the conservative thought pattern to consider themselves superior to other ethnic groups an to force their culture on others. It is to keep Trump in power that the people who wanted a racist president tried an insurrection. If you have only been talked down to rather than murdered, consider yourself lucky. I agree tribal thinking is abhorrent. In case you have not noticed, the blue faction and myself are of the 'all men are created equal' side.

FullMoon
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:55 pm

Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by FullMoon »

I would like to thank you for showing us the mentality of those who are committing the deprlorable atrociousness ripping our nation apart. Completely devoid of self reflection ability you are. Not agreement capable.

User avatar
Bob Butler
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am
Location: East of the moon, west of the sun
Contact:

Tyranny

Post by Bob Butler »

FullMoon wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:25 pm
The flaws which affect me and my family are those with which you not only condone but gleefully cheer for. Tyranny, violence and oppression.
Let’s list four of the major pieces of the Democratic agenda. Save lives by fighting Covid. All men should be equal under law rather than victims of prejudice, oppression and violence. The environment should be protected. The infrastructure should be kept up to date. All of these things are supported by the majority.

So how is this tyranny? The way democracy is supposed to work it the public servants try to do what the people want. The strange thing is that the minority is outraged at encountering democracy. They believe in death, prejudice, oppression, violence and collapse. If they don’t get it, what? Tyranny? Rebellion? All because the will of the minority is not being followed?

I can only conclude that they think getting their way more important than democracy, lives, stability, etc…

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests