Societal collapse

[Bob Butler]

Well, I will take the reproductive health care, anti killing, anti prejudice and equality in voting side. As S&H said, the civic generation decides the new morality, how America can best improve itself. Every four score and seven years, a new birth of freedom. It is always the progressive faction that has new solutions to new problems that presses against a conservative faction that wants to keep the old patterns. I don’t see how that is looking different this time around. I don’t think trying to convince you of the nature of crises is going anywhere.

The killings recently in Jacksonville, Boston, Chicago, Denver and Oklahoma has me looking again at the two instinct theory. Either you love your neighbor or hate those that are different. You can push your culture in one direction or the other. If you feel you have to push hate, I don’t think I can stop you.

[spottybrowncow]

Well, I will take the reproductive health care, anti killing, anti prejudice and equality in voting side. As S&H said, the civic generation decides the new morality, how America can best improve itself. Every four score and seven years, a new birth of freedom. It is always the progressive faction that has new solutions to new problems that presses against a conservative faction that wants to keep the old patterns. I don’t see how that is looking different this time around. I don’t think trying to convince you of the nature of crises is going anywhere.

The killings recently in Jacksonville, Boston, Chicago, Denver and Oklahoma has me looking again at the two instinct theory. Either you love your neighbor or hate those that are different. You can push your culture in one direction or the other. If you feel you have to push hate, I don’t think I can stop you.

As anticipated (and it' sad), you had no meaningful response, so you defaulted to "hate, prejudice, and intolerance."

Many of us fear you may be right and conservatives will be toast if you get your way, but what you don't realize is that the legions of oatmeal-heads will be toast also, and probably more badly burned.

[Bob Butler]

As anticipated (and it' sad), you had no meaningful response, so you defaulted to "hate, prejudice, and intolerance."

Many of us fear you may be right and conservatives will be toast if you get your way, but what you don't realize is that the legions of oatmeal-heads will be toast also, and probably more badly burned.

Actually, prejudice was only one of the four issues I raised. Most see reproductive health care as more important. A fifth - the attack on democracy - is another missing crisis issue. The excess influence of the wealthy on government and environmental concerns might count too.

Reproductive health care has not lost a vote since Roe was overturned. That alone is a strong indication the progressive side will come out ahead in 2024. Hunter's laptop and the alleged imaginary Biden crime family can hardly compete with the real issues. Has anyone suggested a real felony?

Common to all these is that special interest groups seemed more important in the unraveling, while serving the people is important in the crisis. If you could get enough money from big oil, the NRA and the like, you could control the country in the unraveling. No more. Certain issues have come to a head, and you need now to serve the people. Votes have become more important than dollars. The times they are a changing.

I’m not sure who you mean by the ‘oatmeal heads’, but the Republicans are sticking to gerrymandering, voter suppression, the filibuster and similar tricks to hang on post seasonal to their power. If the voting rights bill passes, that goes away. Voting to make an honest stab at the people’s crisis problems is apt to win more votes than any non-crisis issue. Thus, I remain hopeful for the new birth of freedom.

[Cool Breeze]

I could go on forever, but I won't, because I grow weary of playing chess with pigeons. As they say, "first they knock over the pieces, then they shit on the board, then they strut around acting like they won the game." Fits to a tee.

Exactly. Impossible to have a real discussion with buffoons who make stuff up as they go and constantly invoke buzzwords that are devoid of actual meaning.

[Bob Butler]

Impossible to have a real discussion with buffoons who make stuff up as they go and constantly invoke buzzwords that are devoid of actual meaning.

If you think the insurrection, reproductive health care, black lives mattering, excess killing, voting rights, and covid are devoid of actual meaning, your are right, it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

[spottybrowncow]

Impossible to have a real discussion with buffoons who make stuff up as they go and constantly invoke buzzwords that are devoid of actual meaning.

If you think the insurrection, reproductive health care, black lives mattering, excess killing, voting rights, and covid are devoid of actual meaning, your are right, it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

These are the real facts:

1) there was no insurrection
2) killing babies is not health care
3) black lives matter no more than any other lives
4) no one has been stopped from voting
5) covid is over

Get a life, loser.

[Cool Breeze]

Impossible to have a real discussion with buffoons who make stuff up as they go and constantly invoke buzzwords that are devoid of actual meaning.

If you think the insurrection, reproductive health care, black lives mattering, excess killing, voting rights, and covid are devoid of actual meaning, your are right, it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

These are the real facts:

1) there was no insurrection
2) killing babies is not health care
3) black lives matter no more than any other lives
4) no one has been stopped from voting
5) covid is over

Get a life, loser.

What doesn't Bish get about the fact that yes, those words mean something but no, they don't mean anything close to what he thinks - or in reality, it's actually the opposite. He keeps saying this stuff, as if it's true, and it's not.

As spotty points out, none of those things are actually happening according to how you imagine them. And you are imagining them. It's like the Scott Adams example (even he's figured things out, sorta, having been fooled before!): there's a movie on, we're all watching it, but these people like Bish claim what they are watching on the movie is entirely different to someone who is actually watching and knows what reality is.

A covidiot like Bish will tell guys like myself and spotty that it's someone else's fault that LA, SF, Chicago, NY, etc - all run by Democrats and to a large degree by blacks - are s*holes. What's a more perfect example than that? Derangement syndrome proven again.

Case closed.

[Higgenbotham]

These are the real facts:

1) there was no insurrection

Rehash of Item 1):

The real insurrection hasn't been seen yet. You will know it when you see it.

From The Fourth Turning, Strauss and Howe describe a plausible scenario for an insurrection.

Recall that a Crisis catalyst involves scenarios distinctly imaginable
eight or ten years in advance. Based on recent Unraveling-era trends, the
following circa-2005 scenarios might seem plausible:

Beset by a fiscal crisis, a state lays claim to its residents' federal tax
monies. Declaring this an act of secession, the president obtains a
federal injunction. The governor refuses to back down. Federal
marshals enforce the court order. Similar tax rebellions spring up in
other states. Treasury bill auctions are suspended. Militia violence
breaks out. Cyberterrorists destroy IRS databases. U.S. special forces
are put on alert. Demands issue for a new Constitutional
Convention.

Thing is, in the American sequence of crises, we have aways gone for glory rather than an apocalypse. We have gone for independence, freedom, regulation of the economy and containment. There is no historical precedence for the apocalypse option. Serious conflict during the crisis, sure, but not at the resolution. I'm generally with S&H, but occasionally they insert a little personal opinion with nothing from history to back it up.

You have cited Strauss and Howe as the basis for your conclusions, but haven't quoted anything from The Fourth Turning. When I did, you then changed your tune and said Strauss and Howe inserted their own opinions within all the "facts" you have not quoted or supported.

Next, when I quoted from Strauss and Howe describing what a real insurrection would look like according to them, not me, you turned the tape recorder back on and spit out Jan 6 again.

He's not aware of anything except that he hates Trump and anyone who supports him.
Sadly, it's really as simple as that.

Yes, it is that simple. Trump is clearly in line to win a fair election in 2024 and Bob (and the Democrats) are panicking because if they try to steal the election this time there is very likely going to be a real insurrection.

[Higgenbotham]

This is what changed my mind about seeing an insurrection if the Democrats steal the election in 2024. If the numbers are polling at 7 percent they are probably already higher.

More say violence could be necessary to restore Trump to White House: survey
BY TARA SUTER - 07/25/23 6:48 PM ET

A recent survey shows increasing support for the use of violence to restore former President Trump to the White House.

The report, titled “Dangers to Democracy” and released by the Chicago Project on Security Threats (CPST) earlier this month, found that 7 percent of Americans from April 6 to June 26 agree that “the use of force is justified to restore Donald Trump to the presidency.”

That number is an increase from 4.5 percent, or “the equivalent of an estimated shift from 12 million to 18 million American adults,” according to the survey, which was conducted by CPST and NORC.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... se-survey/

I could go on forever, but I won't, because I grow weary of playing chess with pigeons.

Similarly, I could run through cut and paste with items 2-5, but will stop at item 1 and go back to the Dark Age Hovel.

[Bob Butler]

These are the real facts:

1) there was no insurrection
2) killing babies is not health care
3) black lives matter no more than any other lives
4) no one has been stopped from voting
5) covid is over

Get a life, loser.

It is easy but shallow to discuss the nature of a crisis if you whimsically assume the crisis issues don't exist. Fact is, Trump is in legal jeopardy, women seeking their own will in reproductive health care are apt to swing the vote progressive, cops should not kill black folk out of prejudice, the voting rights bill is apt to be passed in 2025 and will make a difference, and they are offering a new Covid booster. If you live on Earth Two your analysis is entirely valid. It doesn't mean much if you live on Earth One.