Re: All Men
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:29 pm
Bob, I'm not trying to shit-stir, I'm just requesting clarification. People under general anesthesia are not sentient - does that mean they are not people during that time?
Generational theory, international history and current events
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Bob, I'm not trying to shit-stir, I'm just requesting clarification. People under general anesthesia are not sentient - does that mean they are not people during that time?
Only if they are white.spottybrowncow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:29 pmBob, I'm not trying to shit-stir, I'm just requesting clarification. People under general anesthesia are not sentient - does that mean they are not people during that time?
If you are asleep, unconscious, or otherwise temporarily incapacitated, yes, I at least would acknowledge them as sentient. Arguably, if multiple doctors rate that someone will never recover from a coma, you might make a case he is not.spottybrowncow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 10:29 pmBob, I'm not trying to shit-stir, I'm just requesting clarification. People under general anesthesia are not sentient - does that mean they are not people during that time?
Dictionary.com would not support your contention https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sentientBob Butler wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:03 amIf you are asleep, unconscious, or otherwise temporarily incapacitated, yes, I at least would acknowledge them as sentient.
For the sake of the abortion debate, you might add that something that has never been sentient isn't sentient. Would that clarify how I use the word?spottybrowncow wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:43 pmPeople under anesthesia are unquestionably not sentient by the pretty much universally accepted definition of the word. The best you can say is that they are potentially sentient, as the huge majority of them will gain perception / sensation.
September 1, 1939
W. H. Auden
1907 – 1973
I sit in one of the dives
On Fifty-second Street
Uncertain and afraid
As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade:
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives;
The unmentionable odour of death
Offends the September night.
Accurate scholarship can
Unearth the whole offence
From Luther until now
That has driven a culture mad,
Find what occurred at Linz,
What huge imago made
A psychopathic god:
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.
Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.
Into this neutral air
Where blind skyscrapers use
Their full height to proclaim
The strength of Collective Man,
Each language pours its vain
Competitive excuse:
But who can live for long
In an euphoric dream;
Out of the mirror they stare,
Imperialism's face
And the international wrong.
Faces along the bar
Cling to their average day:
The lights must never go out,
The music must always play,
All the conventions conspire
To make this fort assume
The furniture of home;
Lest we should see where we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the night
Who have never been happy or good.
The windiest militant trash
Important Persons shout
Is not so crude as our wish:
What mad Nijinsky wrote
About Diaghilev
Is true of the normal heart;
For the error bred in the bone
Of each woman and each man
Craves what it cannot have,
Not universal love
But to be loved alone.
From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
The dense commuters come,
Repeating their morning vow;
"I will be true to the wife,
I'll concentrate more on my work,"
And helpless governors wake
To resume their compulsory game:
Who can release them now,
Who can reach the deaf,
Who can speak for the dumb?
All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die.
Defenceless under the night
Our world in stupor lies;
Yet, dotted everywhere,
Ironic points of light
Flash out wherever the Just
Exchange their messages:
May I, composed like them
Of Eros and of dust,
Beleaguered by the same
Negation and despair,
Show an affirming flame.
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