Generational Dynamics World View News

[JDav]

JDav:
America's treatment of First Nations was WRONG. But that is whataboutism. Ukraine is important for the same reason Czechoslovakia was important in 1938. We did not react then, and we got Poland in 1939. Putin wants everything that was once part of Russia's Empire back under his control? Does that include Alaska?

Putin wants Russia's Empire back under his control, so he kills, rapes, and annexes land. The young US government wanted to expand its borders, not reclaim them, so it killed, raped, and annexed land, as brutally as Putin is doing now. It's not whataboutism. I just don't understand why one is right and acceptable and one is wrong, or is it just that time has passed and the victors write the history? If Russia succeeds and a hundred years go by will what they did today be acceptable? On a spiritual level I can see (but not understand) that it's according to God's plan, but can someone explain it to me on a human level?

We can't do anything about evil that was committed in the past. We can do something about evil that is happening right now. It seems you want to justify closing your eyes, turning away and talking about something else bad. Fine, if that's what you want to do. Don't pretend there is any moral superiority in it.

There's no moral superiority about it. Don't assume you know you know my motives. I just see this event that almost everyone is saying we need to get involved in and it makes me stop and think about their motives. If the herd is all heading in one direction it's usually a sign for me to look in another. When I do, I don't like what I see.

If we agree that we need to do something about the evil happening right now, should we also go to war with China? Their Nazi-esque persecution of the Uighers is right in front of us, and we do nothing. Is that not as bad, or worse, than Putin? You probably own products that were made with Uigher slave labor. We probably all do.

Evil reigns in this world. Using physical means to fight a spiritual battle is akin to bringing a knife to a gunfight. I'm not closing my eyes - just seeing the futility in your way. You say Russia is the greater evil - I disagree. I'm not trying to dissuade you, just showing that there are differing viewpoints, all with valid reasoning, and people aren't trolls for having them - you're allusion, not mine. Name-calling falls under which logical fallacy?

[JDav]

There are different degrees of evil with some being worse than others. Not stopping drugs coming over the border is a form of evil. Shoveling people into ovens is a more extreme form of evil. Do you see the difference?

What happened 10 or 50 or 100 or 5,000 years ago is important as a point of reference and context but they are in the past and we can't do anything about them. We CAN do something about what is happening right now.

Why should we place any importance on Ukraine? Because right now it is suffering invasion by a brutal autocratic regime. Russia has been a problem almost since Putin took over due to his megalomania and revanchism. Europe would be a more peaceful place with more funds going to solving social issues were it not for Putin's need to compensate for... something. The US would be able to mostly ignore Europe and concentrate and the actual foe, China, where it not for Putin constantly dragging US attention back. The US might actually be able to reduce defense spending and either cut taxes or take care of other needs.

Is Ukraine the "most important battle of our time"? No, and I never made that argument (yet another logical fallacy). Supporting Ukraine in its efforts to defend itself preserve an independent country, push back on the idea that attacking others to steal their territory is just fine, and helps remove the ability of Russia to continually engage in these actions. If Russia's military is in tatters and it doesn't have to money to support let alone rebuild, that provides a safety net for the rest of the world.

As to "our country rots from inside", that's an unrelated issue that would exist (or not) regardless of whether or not the US supports Ukraine.
[/quote]

China is also encroaching on and stealing territory - has been for years. Are you ready to go to war with them, too?

You are correct in that there are different degrees of evil. God laid it out that way when he gave us the Ten Commandments. Sins we commit against God are far worse than sins we commit against other men. That's the measure I use. Based on the first three Commandments we are a Godless country with no moral authority in the Russia/Ukraine conflict. We commit every abomination against the fourth with legalized gay marriage, abortion, contraception, euthanasia, etc. Only then do we come to the fifth (killing) and seventh (stealing), which you've described above.

From that I discern that my spheres of influence, where I should focus my concern and efforts, are church first, then family, community, country, and then the world. Since you brought up sin, it is sinful to try to fight evil on the other side of the world when you do nothing about the evil in your own backyard.

Reasonable people can, and do, disagree about the Russia/Ukraine conflict. There are plenty of valid reasons on both sides. We should all try to be respectful of them. Where I have failed in that, please forgive me.

[Tom Mazanec]

Putin Says West Has Lost in Ukraine—'Breakdown of American World Order'
Brendan Cole - Yesterday 8:16 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pu ... ar-AAZus3n

Did Putin blunder the Kremlin into a dystopian World War III?
BY MARK TOTH AND JONATHAN SWEET, OPINION CONTRIBUTORS - 07/12/22 7:00 AM ET
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-se ... d-war-iii/

Ukraine uneasy over Russian activity on Belarus border
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-uneasy-ov ... v-62439398

And over at our other bugaboo:
Is China Preparing To Emulate Russia’s Invasion Of Ukraine?
https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Intern ... raine.html
By Simon Watkins - Jul 11, 2022, 7:00 PM CDT

[FullMoon]

Based on the latest reports, it appears that the man who assassinated Shinzo Abe targeted him for his association with the Japanese branch of the Unificationist movement (aka the "Moonies").

He also appears to have no core political beliefs, so it's highly likely that the co-conspirators (if any) came from a group that also has it out for the Unificationists (because if he has no core political beliefs then he had no incentive to search for co-conspirators among any other kind of group).

Based on that information, I'd narrow down the list of possible co-conspirators to the following:

1. A rival sect (of either Christianity itself or a NRM derived from Christianity)
2. China
3. Japanese communists
4. Japanese ultranationalists
5. North Korea
6. Radical atheists
7. Radical Buddhists

It seemed we might have had our Archduke moment, but no Chinese hand has been shown.
Timing in relation to elections together with the results and stated priorities (constitutional reform) does make this a more probable motive.

[Tom Mazanec]

https://twitter.com/WarAgainstPutin/sta ... 8314584064

https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/15 ... 4558507008

"We cannot risk a nuclear war with Russia, the citizens of Alaska must be sacrificed!"

[Bob Butler]

Putin wants Russia's Empire back under his control, so he kills, rapes, and annexes land. The young US government wanted to expand its borders, not reclaim them, so it killed, raped, and annexed land, as brutally as Putin is doing now. It's not whataboutism. I just don't understand why one is right and acceptable and one is wrong, or is it just that time has passed and the victors write the history? If Russia succeeds and a hundred years go by will what they did today be acceptable? On a spiritual level I can see (but not understand) that it's according to God's plan, but can someone explain it to me on a human level?

In fantasy role playing, I recently had a squabble about when it was proper to use violence. If you are attempting to destroy, diminish or subjugate another culture, that would be a no. If you are attempting to acquire status, power, resources or things similar, that would be a no. If you are allying with those who abuse violence, you are tainted by the alliance. There may be other principles, but that would do as a start.

This is becoming true in the current Information Age. It was treated as not true in the old Agricultural Age. In fact, it was what kings and emperors did. In between, in the Industrial Age, there was a transition. The white Americans would demand freedom, justice, rights, etc, for themselves while subjugating Backs, Asians, Native Americans, Irish, most everybody.

We had conquerers and racists that considered themselves superior, and those who defended rights and cultures. The Napoleons, Hitlers, Stalins and Putins of the time gave way to the Franklins, Lincolns and Churchills. One could work for a better future, but it seems rare that one is able to undo an evil that had already been done.

I don’t think it is possible to right every wrong done in the bad old days. Perhaps, to some degree, we could try to make it up to the decedents of those who were wronged. Still, I don’t see the poor reservation lands given to the Native Americans being traded for the more valuable properties owned by people generations removed from what was unfairly done long ago. Similarly, those of Irish, Italian, Black, Asian etc descent are far better off getting ahead by their own merits than trying to correct the very real wrongs done to their ancestors.

[JDav]

Putin wants Russia's Empire back under his control, so he kills, rapes, and annexes land. The young US government wanted to expand its borders, not reclaim them, so it killed, raped, and annexed land, as brutally as Putin is doing now. It's not whataboutism. I just don't understand why one is right and acceptable and one is wrong, or is it just that time has passed and the victors write the history? If Russia succeeds and a hundred years go by will what they did today be acceptable? On a spiritual level I can see (but not understand) that it's according to God's plan, but can someone explain it to me on a human level?

I don’t think it is possible to right every wrong done in the bad old days. Perhaps, to some degree, we could try to make it up to the decedents of those who were wronged. Still, I don’t see the poor reservation lands given to the Native Americans being traded for the more valuable properties owned by people generations removed from what was unfairly done long ago. Similarly, those of Irish, Italian, Black, Asian etc descent are far better off getting ahead by their own merits than trying to correct the very real wrongs done to their ancestors.

Not trying to start a new thread of debate but the situation with the Indians was a little different, and the resentment among the Indian Nations is palpable even today. The government stole their land and purposely forced each tribe onto lands nothing like where they had lived, so they were unable to practice their traditional forms of livelihood. You are correct that the land to which they were relocated was, and is still, the worst quality land. It's a crime that many tribes have resorted to opening casinos to make money, but most tribes are out in the middle of nowhere, and they can't even do that.

Then the government removed their children and sent them to boarding schools to be "Christianized" so they would unlearn their ancestors "savage" ways - look up the history of Haskell Indian Nations University, still in existence, where many of my relatives went. When the Bureau of Indian Affairs needed Indian liaisons to work with the tribes, providing health care, etc., they never employed members of that tribe or a neighboring tribe, lest there would be plots of rebellion.

In short, the US government crushed entire societies and cultures of Indians, and created a situation where the only way they could have a decent standard of living was to abandon the reservation and adopt the white man's ways.

I personally bear no resentment, as my upbringing was far removed from all that, but I have relatives that do. I just brought it up as part of an examination of the nature, and permanence, of evil throughout the world.

[Bob Butler]

I personally bear no resentment, as my upbringing was far removed from all that, but I have relatives that do. I just brought it up as part of an examination of the nature, and permanence, of evil throughout the world.

Not sure if the Native Americans had it the worst of the worst of the bad time, but it was bad enough.

I would disagree as to the permanence of evil, though. From the S&H perspective, each crisis will strike down one or two ugly elements. Each makes America more American. The progressive side in the US crises tends to win, the conservative side is with the evil. The Revolution was against colonial imperialism and noble privilege, for democracy. The Civil War was against slavery, for westward expansion (admittedly flawed) and industrialism. FDR's time saw regulation of the economy and promoted containment. Trump worked with racists and against rule of law. Sure, a lot was wrong, new evils replaced old, and each crisis can correct only a few things at a time. Greed and oppression of other cultures is pervasive throughout history. But are the evils permanent? No where near clear.

[DaKardii]

Does anyone have any news on John? Which hospital did he go to?

According to John's profile, his last post was on July 10 at 9:17 PM, and he last logged off the site earlier today at 3:11 PM.

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=53

[Tom Mazanec]

The man who has Putin’s ear — and may want his job
Catherine Belton - Yesterday 5:00 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/th ... ar-AAZwn4D

RUSSIA OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, JULY 13
Jul 13, 2022 - Press ISW
https://understandingwar.org/background ... nt-july-13

Separatist official says Russian and proxy forces enter Ukraine's Siversk -TASS
July 13, 2022
1:40 PM EDT
Last Updated 18 hours ago
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/se ... 022-07-13/