John wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:22 pm
** 12-Feb-2021 World View: Inflation and Deflation
Burner Prime wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:06 pm
> The inflation/deflation debate is fun. The simplest way to look at
> it is by the very definitions. Inflation is the expansion of the
> money supply, deflation is the opposite. How it manifests is not
> obvious and people here are looking at markers that give false
> impressions.
Are you having fun making up stuff? The definition of inflation has
no relation whatsoever to the expansion of the money supply. You
don't even know what "expansion of the money supply" means.
From Investopedia:
What Is Inflation?
Inflation is the decline of purchasing power of a given currency over
time. A quantitative estimate of the rate at which the decline in
purchasing power occurs can be reflected in the increase of an average
price level of a basket of selected goods and services in an economy
over some period of time. The rise in the general level of prices,
often expressed a a percentage means that a unit of currency
effectively buys less than it did in prior periods.
Inflation can be contrasted with deflation, which occurs when the
purchasing power of money increases and prices decline.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp
Appreciate that and appreciate you proving my point. Great job, I see you're coming over to the side of inflation. I know it's hard to let go of long-held beliefs, so believe me, your evolution is certainly acknowledged.
I used to reference investopedia 20 years ago when I knew nothing. Now I rarely do. They are for beginners and amateurs. Eventually you graduate from Investor Grade School. They mention nothing about money supply; they botched it and you bought it, because you know even less.
Here is a much better definition: "Economics. a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency (opposed to deflation)."
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/inflation
So no, I wasn't making that stuff up.
For those who want a serious understanding about Economics look here:
https://www.aier.org/
Leave investopedia for the normies. And listen to people who have it, not those who are destitute.
Ok, all joking aside, both definitions do a great job explaining, and with my examples demonstrates we are undergoing inflation that risks hyperinflation in the event we can no longer get cheap stuff from overseas.
Food prices across the board are rising, only held in nominal check by sourcing from other countries.
The same goes for transportation, medical commodities, durable goods. Many washing machines, and fridges are made in Mexico and elsewhere. The "basket of goods" includes massive numbers of goods obtained by net deficit import. It also includes education and medical care that is heavily subsidized by individual and Govt borrowing, so the real costs are born by IOUs. So the CPI is bullshit and a dupe for the masses and an excuse that allows the Fed to keep the printing press going. The only segment that shows low/no inflation due to bona fide domestic competitive sources is Education with all the online universities and targeted learning (learn to code) institutions popping up. Here Big Education is in Big Trouble as Google and other techs are dropping their requirement for formal 4 yr education.
CPI would be through the roof if we had to produce those things ourselves.
In the event of WWIII supply chains will be totally broken. All those container ships from China will cease and shipping from other ports will be torpedoed. Mexico will still be able to move stuff across the border for the most part. No more overseas sources of food and raw materials. Supply will not be able to meet demand. That is inflationary.
In the event of total depression (it would not just affect the US, it would be global), supply chains will also have an impact on prices because there is a floor on the cost of transport, especially over long distances. At some point foreign sources can't compete regardless of how low they can drive production costs. That's why locally-sourced goods and services provide the best example of real current pricing for those things. The CPI ignores that, and why it's bullshit. I can't say what will happen then, inflation or deflation as it depends heavily on human behavior. I just can't see any discipline or austerity being viable in the US with a population accustomed to cheap or free stuff. But in the case of WWIII, hyperinflation is certain because there will be no foreigners to borrow from, few to trade with, they will continue running the printing press, and supply will not meet demand.
There are so many ways Deflationists cherry pick examples that do not apply today at all. It's mainly because of our de-link from gold. For example Harry Dent cites deflations that happened in 1837-1842 and the Great Depression. But he misses as John does that the US was tied to the gold standard in those times and could not print dollars out of thin air to devalue the currency. In WWII we did borrow money in the form of war bonds, but that was nearly all domestic borrowing. Money printer enthusiasts rightly say they can print indefinitely but that's only if the debt is held domestically. Today that is not the case as foreigners hold about 40% of all public US debt. Hello Weimar Germany.
One great Deflationist Harry Dent explains why Weimar Germany happened but completely fails to see the parallel with the US today! He says that Weimar Germany had to pay off WWI debts (foreign debt, hello!) that got more and more expensive as they devalued their currency. The US keeps borrowing from foreign nations and from the Fed AND the Social Security Trust Fund, printing money, thereby devaluing our currency and making it more expensive to pay off that debt. It's astonishing. The only reason it hasn't resulted in a crisis is because EVERYBODY else is doing the same and devaluing THEIR currency. I suppose that can keep going on indefinitely if there weren't any trade imbalances, but that's not the case and we're on the losing end of that trade.
This is a good vid of Harry Dent vs Peter Schiff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIw-rO2ooIQ
The other argument Dent makes over and over is "I just don't see inflation!". That's right, he relies on the nominal prices he's seeing that rely on goods and services heavily dependent on foreign sourcing or subsidized by Govt debt. He is myopic and blind to the whole picture much the same way they cherry pick historic examples of inflation or deflation without regard to context. In war they call it target fixation. It is a fatal flaw. John's target fixation is P/E.
Another thing the CPI is ignoring is rising Stonk prices. They do include "housing cost" that had been slowly *accelerating* prior to Covid (since 2010, prior to rent moratorium) which takes into account the current RE inflation. I think here's another example where Deflationistas assume incorrectly that all that fake wealth will be wiped out, in essence, the destruction of a lot of that printed currency that fed the bubbles - which would be deflationary (contraction of the money supply). In a depression stonk nominal prices will fall, but that will have a floor based on their intrinsic value. Peter Schiff argues that their nominal price will fall but not in terms of gold. He is a gold bug so I can't say, but I know there's an intrinsic value floor. On top of that the prices won't fall in the absence of trading so the current holders who sell on the way down will retain a lot of those printed dollars. Only the holdouts who ride it to the bottom and are forced to liquidate lose and jump out the 40th floor window. There's also going to be future geniuses who never sell, regardless of how low because they don't have to, only care about dividends, knew the value at the time of purchase and didn't overpay. If Peter Schiff is right they win in short and long-term. If John and Dent are right they win long-term.
In the end, inflation is inevitable unless somehow the people in charge shut off the printing press. Or if we somehow start running trade surpluses. But these days, regardless of any crisis or disaster, the instinct of the Govt is to crank up the presses to warp speed. Austerity is never an option.
Are you gonna be able to buy more or less goods and services in the event of WWIII or depression? In the event of WWIII, certainly less, in the case of depression, depends on the money printer speed, stimulus checks, UBI, rent-free housing - things non-existent on the Great Depression. Based on past BRRRR, I'd say less.