Greek Govt. Ocean Ferries moving 6K per day from Asia to Europe

[Reality Check]

The Greek Government is using Greek ocean going ferries, to, every day, transport, from Asia to Europe, across the huge Aegean Sea, over 6,000 potential war refugees, each and every day.

The Greek Government is doing this without legally processing them for asylum as "War Refugees" as Greece is required to do as a member of the Shengen Treaty ( aka the Shengen Agreement). Greece, unlike all the countries on it's land borders ( who are not members of the Shengen Area, Greece is a member of the Schengen Area and Greece is also a member of the EU).

How this is happening is discussed here: http://gdxforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3303

Why this is happening is the subject of speculation, but it appears to be the partially intended, and partially unintended, consequences of pressure put on the Greek Government by outside parties, including the European Union Elite, The International Monetary Fund, The UN Refugee Agency, all the preceding as part of the Greek bail out negotiations, and also as the result of pressure applied by the Media :

The speculation that best fits the evidence is that the Media highlighted the lack of refugee facilities on remote Greek Islands ( remote in the sense they are Geographically Islands in Asia, not in Europe; and these remote Islands are geographically Turkish coastal Islands with Greek Sovereignty; and remote in the sense these Islands are on the opposite side of the Aegean Sea - in Asia - not in Europe - from the Greek mainland which is in Europe )".

Outside parties, including the media, put pressure on the Greek government to clean up these "substandard" "remote" refugee camps on these "remote Islands" and to comply with the Schengen Treaty ( Greece is an obligated member of Schengen Area ) and to comply with the UN and EU policies on caring for refugees.

The Greek Government wanted to receive the bail out monies, remove the Media pressure of nightly pictures of small, but substandard refugee camps on remote islands, but did not want to incur the costs of caring for refugees or complying with Greek Treaty requirements under the Schenge Treaty and the various EU Treaties.

The Greek Government's solution to all this was to immediately transport the "then small numbers" of "potential war refugees" that "appeared" on these remote Islands next to Turkey, transport them by large Greek ocean going ferries, from the Turkish side of the Aegean Sea, into the European Mainland Portion of Greece, and point them, as illegal immigrants in Greece, toward the Macedonian border ( on the way to Germany ). Macedonia and Serbia are not members of the EU nor are they members of the Schengen Area, so Greece had no obligations to Macedonia under either the EU treaties nor under the Schengen Treaty. What happened to the "potential war refugees" on the Macedonia-Greek border and on the rest of their journey through multiple countries as ( "illegal aliens"."undoumented aliens", "potential war refugees", "economic migrants", and/or "war refugees" ) and ending up in Germany and Sweden is beyond the scope of this post, except to say that Macedonia found a way to let them in and pass them on to the next country in the chain of countries they are traveling through.

By never processing the "potential war refugees" in accordance with the "Schengen Treaty" Greece avoided the obligations to other members of Schengen Treaty Area that Greece would have had if it had granted them "war refugee" status, and it also avoided the obligations Greece would have had, to the refugees under international law, if it rejected them as "war refugees". By passing them on to Macedonia, Greece also avoided having to operate long term refugee camps for them, The "potential war refugees" were treated officially as "undocumented aliens" or "illegal aliens" while in Greece and the "undocumented aliens" were "self deported" from Greece to one of the non-EU, non Schengen Area countries on the land borders of Greece.

Since Macedonia, Serbia and Croatia are not members of the Schengen Treaty, Greece has no obligation to process the "potential war refugees" in accordance with the Schengen Treaty before the Greek "undocumented aliens" self deported themselves, nor do they have any obligation to take back individuals who were "illegal aliens" or were "undocumented aliens", while in Greece, in the event the next country who they may have entered illegally ( after having passed through Greece as "illegal aliens" or were "undocumented aliens" ) decides to legally deport them.

Individuals in Asia, who wanted to move to the rich areas of Europe for whatever reason, rapidly discovered that all they had to do was get to Turkey and then "appear" as an "undocumented alien", or as "an illegal alien", on one of the Greek islands off the coast of Turkey, and they would get an immediate Ocean going Ferry ride, courtesy of the Greek government, into Europe, no questions ask. Best of all the Greek government did not ask any questions nor did the Greek government put them through any legal process, the Greek government just dropped them in Europe and pointed them toward Central Europe, Western Europe and Northern Europe. Since these "potential war refugees" did not want to stay in Greece with it's major economic crisis and they wanted to go to Central Europe, Northern Europe or Western Europe this should be the prefect solution for both Asian who wanted to move to Europe and Greece who wanted their bailout money and no refugees in their refugee camps.

This discovery of a sure fire path for "undocumented Asians" to move to the European country of their choice, with all the benefits of legally living in the European Country of their choice, has resulted in the flow of over 6,000 "potential war refugees" from Asia to Europe, every day, on Greek ocean going ferries.

The Turkish governments role in all this is also beyond the scope of this post.

[John]

> The Greek Government is using Greek ocean going ferries, to, every
> day, transport, from Asia to Europe, across the huge Aegean Sea,
> over 6,000 potential war refugees, each and every day.

> The Greek Government is doing this without legally processing them
> for asylum as "War Refugees" as Greece is required to do as a
> member of the Shengen Treaty ( aka the Shengen Agreement).
> Greece, unlike all the country on it's land borders is a member of
> the Schengen Area and Greece is also a member of the
> EU.

Sorry, "Reality", but the "first country - asylum" rule has nothing to
do with the Schengen agreement. It's a requirement of the Geneva
convention, and it was adopted by the EU in the "Dublin II" regulation
of 2003.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... ERV:l33153

Furthermore, the asylum rule applies to the entire EU, not just to the
Schengen zone.

Tsk, tsk. You're going to "cause confusion" by making these kinds of
errors.

[Reality Check]

Sorry, "Reality", but the "first country - asylum" rule has nothing to
do with the Schengen agreement. It's a requirement of the Geneva
convention, and it was adopted by the EU in the "Dublin II" regulation
of 2003.

John, You may, or may not, be right, in some, or all of your statement, and your implications, of facts.

But even if some, or all, are true, you are just providing another reason as to why Greece is doing what they are doing, NOT, repeat NOT, disagreeing with the fact they are doing it.

Greece is not, repeat NOT, processing these "potential war refugees" for the purpose of determining if they are "war refugees" or "not war refugees" and is instead allowing them, the "potential war refugees" to travel from Asia to Europe, within the country of Greece, with the assistance of the Greek government as "undocumented aliens" or as "illegal aliens" and allowing them, the "potential war refugees" to voluntarily cross the border ( self deport ) into Macedonia ( a European country ), on their way, to other countries in Europe they want to live in. [/color]

By not following the legal process of making a determination as to if these are war refugees, Greece is avoiding the obligations ( from whatever source ) that come with making a determination as to their war refugee status.

Greece is simply avoiding the refugee problem entirely by allowing "undocumented aliens" or "illegal aliens" to transit Greece from Asia to Europe on Greek ocean going ferries, and allowing them to enter another country. They are also spending Greek government money - or spending third parties money - or allowing third parties to spend money - to feed, care for, and transport the "undocumented aliens" or "illegal aliens" from Asia to Europe, within the country of Greece, so that they will "self deport" as soon as possible, into another European country. Which both the Greek government and the "undocumented Asian aliens" wish to have happen.

As noted in my post, why Macedonia is allowing them to "self deport" across the Macedonian border, and enter Macedonia, is beyond the scope of my post.

I would speculate however, that Greece is not, repeat not, violating the Geneva convention in the manner you are suggesting, because Greece is not deporting, or even attempting to deport, a person claiming to be a "war refugee". Greece is avoiding such a violation by simply not even attempting to deport the individual or detain the individual or determine if they are a war refugee" - instead Greece is simply allowing them to transit through Greece from Asia to Europe and then allowing them to "Self Deport" into another European country without making any determination as to their war refugee status.

I would further speculate that any agreement such as the Schengen Treaty would include provisions that requires any country allowing an alien to enter the Shengen Area, to vet the alien before doing so, your suggesting that it does not include such a requirement by incorporation, or otherwise, is likely inaccurate. To not include such a requirement in such an "open borders treaty" would be beyond insanity, even if some of the writers had no intention of enforcing such a requirement.

Regardless, violating the Schengen treaty would only apply to other treaty members, and Macedonia and Serbia are NOT, repeat NOT, members of either the Schengen Treaty Area nor are they members of the EU.