Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

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Bob Butler
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Short Message Service

Post by Bob Butler »

DaKardii wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:47 pm
SMS is part of most telephone and internet systems. That means if Biden goes through with this, private channels WILL be affected across the board.
SMS (Short Message Service) is an internet protocol for sending (surprise) short messages. It can be used in private communications or public. Any time you find yourself being limited to about 160 characters, the application you are using is likely enough using SMS. The major social media companies use it. As part of their terms of service you have to agree to use it in certain ways. If you don’t, you find yourself looking for another service.

Most social media have some sort of enforcement. For example, you are not supposed to use it in planning or committing a crime. This was a problem for red criminals after the insurrection who had to go for more private and harder to access services, hidden from most users. Still, if part of that service is to send short messages around, they wlll likely use SMS. It is just how you send short messages over the internet. Sure, you can reinvent the wheel if you like, but why bother?

(I guess the answer is that the NSA can recognize the SMS protocol easy enough, and break out the content. The people who are violating the social media terms of service likely want to avoid the common protocols. And yet, your message is likely to pass through multiple machines - Cisco routers, Linux, mainframes, MacOS, Windows, etc... For your message to arrive, there has to be operating system software present to handle the message. If you don't use it, how does the message get there? SMS has to be present in the OS to handle it. There are few alternatives, and all would be designed to be simple and easy to use.)

The problem is that some want to spread false information that kills for political gain. Some people don’t like this. It is against more and more terms of service. I think fact checking public attempts at murder for political gain would be against many terms of service. Fact checking the worst lies would be the least one could do. Spreading the truth would not be blocked by the First Amendment, quite the opposite.

I could see an effort to spread fatal lies over public services resulting in a fact check or worse. Write it in the terms of service. Ban users that persist in it. The problem isn’t with SMS. I would ask if the social media companies should be compelled to fact check, and if the government can force it somehow.

On another topic, Trump has been working towards short term goals lately. Start an insurrection today! Prevent the right to protest immediately! Find the votes right away! Which of Trump's crimes do you see as slow enough that Brandenburg v Ohio would become relevant?

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Cool Breeze »

I tried multiple times with this man, being charitable, no longer. He doesn't even know the scriptures or history enough which is why he doesn't know who his real father is. Ironic.

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Capitalization

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:28 pm
I tried multiple times with this man, being charitable, no longer. He doesn't even know the scriptures or history enough which is why he doesn't know who his real father is. Ironic.
Oh, I know who my father was, but you were not clear who you were talking about. God the Father is traditionally capitalized, where dad wasn't, but I don't know that you knew him. Due to your incoherence I had to provide both answers. You didn't clarify what you meant, nor respond to the meat of either response. I assume that is because you cannot. Rather than admit this, you babble incoherently.

That seems par for the course. When you or others here can't answer my comments, silence. Comments that result in a conservative inability to answer is somehow my fault. I just assume most have learned that they can't answer so that silence becomes permanent. You just babble incoherently rather than provide any real answer. You just talk about not talking.

So which is it? Did you make up lies about someone you never met, or do you ignore the tradition of capitalizing God the Father? Are you a hypocrite, trying to combine Christian charity with Tribal Thinking oppression of those unlike you? Curious. Not sure why. Your unusual thought processes just seem a bit odd.

On another tangent, when I wrote operating systems in my days as a software engineer, I commonly worked on small dedicated networks with multiple processors. My OS would generally contain a routine anyone could use, SendMessage(Pointer_To_Message, Message_Length, Destination_Processor). I assume SMS is a more complex service that does much the same thing, but works over a much larger collection of very diverse processors.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by Cool Breeze »

Can anyone make anything that Bish says intelligible? I've noticed the common thread of lefties, beyond lying, is that they accuse others of what they themselves do.

That's why the accuser is their father. He still doesn't get it, because literally his details are in all of his confusion.

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Rejected Principle

Post by Bob Butler »

The problem is not with the clarity of what I say, but with your inability to understand it or describe your position clearly. It is not that progressives lie, but that conservatives do not want to acknowledge the principles progressives speak. All men are created equal. All men are imbued with certain rights. All men should receive equal treatment under law. Etc... These are not lies, but principles that conservatives routinely prefer to ignore.

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Re: Rejected Principle

Post by John »

** 17-Jul-2021 World View: Lying "Progressives"
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:57 am
> The problem is not with the clarity of what I say, but with your
> inability to understand it or describe your position clearly. It
> is not that progressives lie, but that conservatives do not want
> to acknowledge the principles progressives speak. All men are
> created equal. All men are imbued with certain rights. All men
> should receive equal treatment under law. Etc... These are not
> lies, but principles that conservatives routinely prefer to
> ignore.
No, you're the one who is lying, because of your inability to understand
what America is all about:
  • Freedom of speech
  • Freedom of religion
  • Freedom of press
  • Freedom of assembly
  • Freedom of self-defense
  • Freedom to expect a fair trial
  • Free and fair elections
You lying Democrats would discard any of these freedoms to impose your
Stalinist Fascist view of government -- you can't speak if you support
Trump, you can't own a gun, you have to perform abortions even if you
think they're murder, you can be jailed without charges and put into
solitary confinement for months if you were peacefully protesting on
January 6, you have hundreds of girls packed into a lice-infested tent
in Texas, you teach racial hatred in schools, you have thousands of
young blacks killing each other on the streets of Chicago and other
Democrat cities, and you want to rig all the elections.

Democrats used to be decent. But today, they're trying to destroy the
US Constitution. Everything they do is sickening, and nothing they do
is shocking or surprising any more. They are as vicious and evil as
the Nazis, the Soviets, the Chinese Communists, and any other horrific
regime you can think of.

Image
  • The ideal Democrat society

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Bob Butler
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Freedom of...

Post by Bob Butler »

That is worthy to start some discussions. I can go down the Freedoms listed and come up with where they are controversial and what I want to do. Now, they are political positions, not lies. Generally, when you say I am lying, you are lying.

Free and Fair elections. At the state level, wherever the Republicans have control of the legislature, they are Gerrymandering and making it harder for minorities to vote. At the federal level, most Democrats are trying to pass voting rights legislation while Republicans resist. To a great degree, I can’t claim holier than thou on this one. The majority wants what the Democrats are trying to provide, so the Republican are trying to rig the vote. But I see it as the other way around from what you present. The Republicans are the ones trying to rig the vote.

Freedom of self defense. The Unites States has a huge ratio of guns to people. If you want a gun, you can get it. Complaining that a lawful citizen cannot get a gun is a lie. Felons? They too can currently freely get a gun. There is also a problem with so called random shootings. If you decide to commit suicide, it is too often suicide by cop and too often you take as many people as you can with you.

Now I am not a big fan of banning stuff the public wants. Going that route only lets the criminals profit. And if the ‘take as many people as possible with you’ culture continues to grow, it is easy to demand that something must be done. Close some background check loopholes? If the NRA broke the law and spent charity money on luxuries for the guys on top, dissolve the NRA? Both may help a little, but neither are solutions. If I had an easy solution I would advocate it. I just know the current situation isn’t satisfactory.

I did spend a lot of time on other forums clarifying the law. I am a Standard Model fan. The Second establishes is an individual right. We do have a right to own and carry nukes, even if we are pretending we don’t. A real compromise guaranteeing honest citizens a clear right to own and carry hunting, target and self defense weapons while banning military grade weapons might well be a worthy compromise.

But the conservatives are right under the Constitution, while the progressives were right under Jim Crow court precedent for well over a century. The law schools taught it wrong for a long time. Both sides are unwilling to give up on their theories, stonewalling for their extreme. Movement is not happening. Not my fault. I just try to suggest compromises should the extreme positions be recognized as failing.

I do have an idea that if the Democrats gave up on the Jim Crow precedents, who is in the militia could be changed and Congress does have the right to regulate the heck out of the militia. It is an entirely different perspective going back to how the Founding Fathers approached things. The Founding Fathers weren’t stupid. They just didn’t anticipate the army not liking the southern militias in the Civil War, defunding militia training, and arranging for the National Guard to act as a reserve that could legally be sent overseas. (Long story. You have to look at some ancient history.)

But if the current convenient arrangement were dropped, just threatening to regulate the heck out of the military age males might bring the conservatives to the compromising table. Currently the militia is all military age males, and Congress has the right to specify what training they receive.

A big mess. Having an opinion is not a lie. It is just complicated. Congress doesn’t have the right to regulate Americans. They can, however, regulate the militia and guess who defines who is in the militia? Not that the Democrats are ready to move in that direction yet.

Freedom of Speech. There is a difference between political speech and planning a criminal act. On this site I see lots of political speech, little to no criminal activity. By rights, there should be no censorship. Surprise, there is no censorship, other than by yourself of course.

The other issue that came up recently is the tendency by some to lie about the Covid vaccines. Some are claiming you can’t correct the lies. Speaking the truth would be a violation of the Constitution? I think not. This Covid disinformation shtick isn’t much of a thing here. There are none that are telling lies about the vaccine, but some are complaining about correcting the lies. The issue should be scientific and medical rather than political, but somehow it has become politicized. Trump originally thought to downplay Covid as at the time any action to save lives would slow the economy, His best chance of reelection in his opinion at the time was a healthy economy. The situation has changed. We have the vaccine. If everyone were vaccinated, we could fully restart the economy. But yet, the conservatives are still advocating not saving lives. They still favor death. I insist progressives have a right to spread the truth, but if the conservatives want to kill themselves it is tempting to let them.

And yes, we have a problem with drugs. This is not a deliberate plan by any faction of government. Saying it is is a lie.

Well, you have demonstrated a willingness to lie, so that isn’t a problem.

The Nazi, Soviets and CCP all cared more about maintaining power for themselves than they cared for the people. The things they did and in the latter case still do are problematic. Even when the Party of Lincoln was allied with the abolitionists and the industrialists, when they were the progressive party, working to kill the agricultural power base so they could move the US into the Gilded Age, they were still the party of the Robber Barons. Still are. Allied with the racists, they did what they could to hurt the working man, send jobs overseas where they could profit more, and thus increase the division of wealth.

To me, advocating for the privileged is the cardinal sin. I don’t care if it if for white supremacy or increased division of wealth, it is the Republicans who are more akin to the Nazi, Soviets or CCP.

As usual, you have it backwards.

***

The cartoon above illustrates the point. The autocratic leaders of the Nazi, Soviets and CCP work for the benefit of the elites, not for the people. They do set up a wall between the people and the elites. The Republicans with the division of wealth and white supremacy are doing much the same thing.

Socialism as practiced in much of Northern Europe is the government working for the people. As the US Constitution preamble puts it, the government works for the general welfare. Working for the benefit of the elites and the white supremacy movement are the greatest problems facing the culture, and as such is coming at the center of the crisis. We will see if the Republicans can really pick up votes by fighting extremely popular government actions.

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Re: Freedom of...

Post by John »

** 18-Jul-2021 World View: Freedom of Speech

I don't have the time to respond to your long list of narratives, most
of which are troll garbage. I'll just respond to the simplest one.
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:55 pm
> Freedom of Speech. There is a difference between political speech
> and planning a criminal act. On this site I see lots of political
> speech, little to no criminal activity. By rights, there should
> be no censorship. Surprise, there is no censorship, other than by
> yourself of course.
This is so evil, and the fact that this doesn't even occur to you
shows what a deeply evil person you are.

You were responding to "you can't speak if you support Trump," and
you've translated that into "you can't speak if you're planning a
criminal act."

Well, Trump isn't planning any criminal act except in the
hallucinatory minds of people like you and Milley. Also, the 75
million Trump supporters are not planning any criminal acts. The
people who ARE planning criminal acts are people like antifa-blm who
have been burning down cities, but those criminal acts are perfectly
okay with you.

You and the Democrats are no different than Hitler or Stalin or any of
the other evil butchers. Hitler didn't say, "The Jews are nice guys
but we're going to kill them all anyway." Hitler said, "The Jews are
criminals, so we're going to kill them all." That's how people like
the Nazis and the Democrats operate. They manufacture crimes, make
false accusations, and then jail or kill the people they're accusing.

There was no "insurrection" on January 6. We now know that the whole
thing was staged by Nancy Pelosi. There were no weapons found on
January 6, except by those of the Capitol police. Nobody was killed
on January 6 except Ashli Babbitt, a pretty young girl just walking
through the Capitol building. Her crime? She was a Trump supporter.
That's why she got shot in the head and killed by Lt. Michael L. Byrd,
a black officer of the Capitol police, on the staff of Nancy Pelosi.
Needless to say, Pelosi isn't being censored, despite her thoroughly
criminal activity.

So the "insurrection" was staged by Nancy Pelosi, and Ashli Babbitt
was killed by a person on Nancy Pelosi's staff. Byrd is not being
punished, but dozens of Trump supporters have been jailed and put into
the solitary confinement for months. But that's perfectly ok with
you, because you're an evil asshole. There's no excuse for people
like you and the Democrats.

The above only covers the so-called "criminal activity" around January
6. Facebook has been censoring lots of things that have nothing to do
with January 6 but make the Democrats look bad. These include things
like ivermectin, hydroxychloroquin, Hunter's laptop, and the Wuhan lab
leak theory. So for you and the Democrats, censorship is not about
criminal activity or "the truth." It's about censoring any political
opinion the Democrats dislike.

And now we have this farcical situation where Biden is calling
Facebook a killer (Lol!), and they want to spy on all facebook
users and punish any "misinformation." This is just the next
step to punishing any opinion that the Biden administration
doesn't like. This is exactly what Hitler, Stalin, Putin,
and many others have done. It's part of the Standard Genocide
Playbook.

** 12-Jan-21 World View -- America and the standard Genocide Playbook
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e210112



You and Brower are nothing but evil Democrat party trolls, possibly
paid trolls. Your purpose in joining this forum has always been to
destroy it from within. In the past, you've often expressed your
utter contempt for the members of this forum, based on some "tribal
thinking" nonsense you've concocted. If you had the power, you would
not hesitate to manufacture some accusation and use it to arrest the
people of this forum, and get it censored or canceled.

A final point about free speech and criminality. The US
Constitution's guarantee about Freedom of Speech does not distinguish
between ordinary people and hallucinatory criminals or even real
criminals. The First Amendment guarantees Freedom of Speech to
everyone, even to criminals. The fact that you can't see that shows
what deeply evil people you and the Democrats are.

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Re: Polyticks: Bob Butler's Perspective

Post by spottybrowncow »

Bob Butler wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:49 pm
Trump's incitement of insurrection let immediately to insurrection.
Bob, I know you're probably not a scientist, but you need to learn the difference between association and causation. It's obvious from the above quote, and some of your previous posts, that you don't know the difference.

Trump said nothing to incite the trespassing and disorderly conduct at the capital on Jan 6. That's well-established, and easy to verify by looking at a transcript of his words. The fact that these events (speech and trespass) were temporally and physically situated in proximity is simply not enough to demonstrate cause and effect.

You embraced another logical fallacy in an earlier thread when you said that racists supporting Trump meant that Trump was a racist. I tried to gently educate you by asking whether racists supporting you would mean that you were a racist, but you dismissed my question as nonsense. It appears that you completely missed the point.

Many on this forum are trained in disciplines requiring scientific rigor, and we know how to reason. You don't. When people don't reply to you, it isn't because "you've got them," i.e., they can't refute your points. It's just that they've given up on you. But I'll hand it to you, you're like the energizer bunny. If only you'd been born several decades earlier you could have been Che Guevara's right hand man. Lots of passion, little reason.

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Correcting Lies

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am
I don't have the time to respond to your long list of narratives, most of which are troll garbage. I'll just respond to the simplest one.
The reason I interpret you as not answering most of the post is because you can't. Instead you chose to talk about not talking. Par for the course on this site. Conservatives just can't defend their lies.
John wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am
You were responding to "you can't speak if you support Trump," and you've translated that into "you can't speak if you're planning a criminal act."
I guess it must be because I live in the real world. Lots of people are speaking in support of Trump. So your claim that you can't speak if you support Trump is a typical lie. Has anyone tried to censor here, other than yourself? Is Biden talking about censoring in response to deadly lies for political gain, or is he talking about fact checking it? All talk of censorship is the typical conservative lie.

On the other hand, the criminals supporting Trump, if they are planning anything, are not doing it so publicly. They are moving away from the big social media programs or stopping, I know not which.
John wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am
Well, Trump isn't planning any criminal act except in the hallucinatory minds of people like you and Milley.
We'll see how the various court cases involving Trump come out. Tax fraud. Bank fraud. Insurance fraud. Attempt to influence election. Inciting insurrection. I'll wait a little longer to answer that one. It is not my place to decide if Trump is criminal with finality.
John wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am
You and the Democrats are no different than Hitler or Stalin or any of the other evil butchers.
The problem is illustrated by your cartoon. Are various groups looking for votes by working for popular things the people want, or are they working for privileged groups like themselves or racists? Evil is a big word even for me, but any time you are working for privilege and inequality you are getting there.
John wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am
There was no "insurrection" on January 6.
That just shows you are a resident of Earth 2. Lying to each other and pretending to believe it is what they do. The problem is, the lies don't touch those that dwell in the real world.
John wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:32 am
A final point about free speech and criminality. The US Constitution's guarantee about Freedom of Speech does not distinguish between ordinary people and hallucinatory criminals or even real criminals. The First Amendment guarantees Freedom of Speech to everyone, even to criminals. The fact that you can't see that shows what deeply evil people you and the Democrats are.
Actually, if you are a felon, you can lose stuff which is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. If you wish to own and carry arms, sorry. If you want to vote in many places, sorry. That said, I don't know that anybody is cutting Freedom of Speech. They can, but so far as I know they haven't. The only counter example I can think of is that in World War II when they captured a German U Boat complete with coding information, and did not tell anyone or allow communication with the crew members held as prisoners. The codes would be changed if the German navy knew, so they made sure no one knew.

(Come to think of it, aren't the folks held in the maximum security prison for folks like the Unabomber held incommunicado? If so, was that done by statute or some prison system whim?)

But anything that solid citizens expect as a right might in theory be lost if a jury finds one guilty and the legislature sees fit to apply that penalty. That's how the justice system works. There is nothing to distinguish between Freedom of Speech and the Right to own and carry weapons.

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