Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

Catalonia is not land locked, and it borders France. It's a viable country that doesn't need Spain.

If violence really exploded, I think the Spanish would let it go. I can't imagine Europe tolerating a brutal crackdown in Western Europe. The local police are already openly siding with their countrymen. If the regional government declares independence, it's over. Catalonia will become a new nation.

If the EU plays hardball, it will back fire badly. The Europeans hate the EU. They want out. If the EU tries to bankrupt and starve the Catalans, the French Catalans will supply them. The Russians will help them, just because they want to bust up the EU. A lot of people in the EU will help them; just to push back against the EU. Either way, after today's violence, Catalonia will be free.

If the Catalans blink and fail to declare independence after the 90% referendum results in the face of massive Spanish opposition then Catalonia will never be independent in our lifetimes

The Catalans have no option but to forge ahead. If they waiver even slightly and pause or play for time then they will be swept aside and history will record them as cowardly losers.

In this situations you have to dial it up to 100 and push forward as if you are fueled by divine intervention. Any thing less than this and the powers that be will find a way to contain you, jail you and blacken your reputations.

The Catalan leader will fold like a cheap suit.

Guest wrote: > The Catalan leader will fold like a cheap suit.

Well, he didn't fold like a cheap suit. He did call for independence,
but preceded by a period of dialog.

In his speech, he drew heavily on the fact that Spain's national
police beat and abused and used physical violence on innocent people
trying to vote, and jailed and fined politicians for advocating a
referendum. Many non-Catalan Spanish people say that the violence on
Catalans was deserved, indicating a substantial fault line between
Catalans and the rest of Spain. Puigdemont said that the relationship
with Madrid is unsustainable.

Mariano Rajoy has made a major blunder by reviving the fault line in
the Spanish civil war. If Rajoy reacts violently again, or tries to
impose direct rule from Madrid, then the call for independence will be
reaffirmed.

So Puigdemont did something between folding like a cheap suit and
immediately calling for independence.

Mariano Rajoy has made a major blunder by reviving the fault line in
the Spanish civil war. If Rajoy reacts violently again, or tries to
impose direct rule from Madrid, then the call for independence will be
reaffirmed.

I'm a bit disappointed by how wishy washy the Catalans have been. Why couldn't they have just declared independence and been done with it. Is this an example of '4D chess'? Cat and mouse diplomacy is cowardly. All of this is so unmanly. The Catalans don't deserve to be independent.

Well, he didn't fold like a cheap suit. He did call for independence,
but preceded by a period of dialog.

They chickened out. It's over.

¡VIVA FRANCO! ¡ARRIBA ESPAÑA! ¡VIVA ESPAÑA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2ITxZcqqSw

It's all over except for a few doses of humiliation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MWXTSh74M

> Well, he didn't fold like a cheap suit. He did call for
> independence, but preceded by a period of dialog.

VIVA FRANCO wrote: > They chickened out. It's over.
> ¡VIVA FRANCO! ¡ARRIBA ESPAÑA! ¡VIVA ESPAÑA!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2ITxZcqqSw

The crisis is very far from over. Puigdemont is refusing to declare
independence, but that looks like a tactical move to gain a political
advantage when in inevitable invasion from Madrid occurs.

John wrote:

> Well, he didn't fold like a cheap suit. He did call for
> independence, but preceded by a period of dialog.

VIVA FRANCO wrote: > They chickened out. It's over.
> ¡VIVA FRANCO! ¡ARRIBA ESPAÑA! ¡VIVA ESPAÑA!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2ITxZcqqSw

The crisis is very far from over. Puigdemont is refusing to declare
independence, but that looks like a tactical move to gain a political
advantage when in inevitable invasion from Madrid occurs.

The Catalans aren't that clever. They are cowards. Jajajajaja!

VIVA FRANCO wrote:Jajajajaja!

What's that mean?