Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

The bleak future of Hong Kong
Written By: Aishani Mathur ugc.wionews.com
NEW DELHI Updated: Jul 05, 2022, 04:04 PM(IST)
https://www.wionews.com/opinions-blogs/ ... ong-494631

jldavid47 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:18 am

Cool Breeze wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:50 pm You guys lack all sorts very important considerations in this and for pure propaganda, and russian hatred, which is Bizarre when you look at the rulers of the West, who are absolute filth and totally indifferent to others. By the way, they have WAY more death on their hands than Mr. Putin has, and it's not even close.

Your head is so far up Putin's ass that I'm surprised you can even see your keyboard to type.

At least you have a name, so I'll give you a shot at a real post:

Please tell me how the illegal NATO coup, Maidan Massacre, violation of the Minsk Accords/Agreements, among many other things (NATO/US biolabs in east ukraine, strikes on eastern Ukraine civilians, etc) didn't provoke the Russian invasion?

I don't expect to hear an answer, since you don't have one. John didn't have one either, so don't worry about it. Keep calling me names though, which further proves my points to be the real case.

Cool Breeze wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:03 pm
All I'm trying to do is think correctly and see things for what they are. Puppet Regime? I haven't seen any defense of what NATO has done for decades by any of you all that claim that Russia is "evil." Nothing about the Maidan Massacre, nothing about the illegal coup, nothing about Zelensky and his joo puppet friends, all who have panama paper entries and millions in real estate and otherwise, around the world. Talk about puppets. But you don't talk about this because it is so clearly indefensible.

By the way, I don't think any government is good, generally speaking. It could theoretically be ok, but I don't see it, and haven't for most of my life. What I don't understand is the water carrying you all do, for the real evil socially and militarily I've seen from the US and NATO for years. The US has troops in over 70 countries. Bases surrounding Russia. Let's cut the crap here. If I get any of you to even be a little bit honest about what's going on, mission accomplished.

And once again you're spouting Russian talking points and avoiding the real issues.

Copies of the Russian plans were captured by Ukraine and it is undisputed that it was attempting to decapitate the Ukrainian government by capturing Kiev and installing a leader of its choice.

As to the "Maidan massacre", most of the murders were committed by Russian personal who were shooting at the crowds. There is definitive evidence to support this.

There was no "illegal coup". Even had there been, elections have taken place since and no Russian stooge would possibly be elected. This "point" is spurious and the fact that you keep bringing it up must be because you have nothing else.

Zelensky was elected by the people of Ukraine in a fairer election than anything that occurs in Russia.

The "joo puppet" anti-semitism is noted. How good of you to out yourself.

There certainly is corruption in Ukraine, but is has been improving and is quite a bit better than Russia. You probably don't want to use this an argument when your favored country is so much more corrupt.

I didn't make an argument about governments being good so your comment is not germane.

I don't see evil from the US and NATO. I see some policies I don't care for; some I think are misguided, some of those dangerously so. But I don't see the US or NATO engaging in wars of aggression to acquire territory. If you wanted to say that some (or all) of the wars the US has engaged in for the past 30 some years, I could at least grudgingly agree. The US stayed much too long in Afghanistan while the Iraq war was a mistake.

The number of countries in which the US has bases is a pointless figure. The US has security agreements with many countries and is there with the sufferance of those countries. Like it or not, the US has provided stability for much of the planet for 70 years. It has prevented many conflicts and stepped on others to keep them from getting out of hand. The security organizations it sponsors has proved a way for many small countries to exist without fear. Do you not think that all the former Warsaw Pact countries don't look at Ukraine and fear that it could be them?

The reason there are bases and agreements all around Russia is that Russia is a shitty police state that has a bad habit of invading its neighbors and stealing their territory. If Russia was a decent country no one would see the need to join NATO. Finland and Sweden were neutral all through the Cold War but now see the need to join NATO with the majority approval of its citizens. The reason for that is because Russia is a shitting police state with a recent history of invading its neighbors. Nothing else.

You need to step up your game because I'm not some ignorant hick with no basis of fact in this matter. I've also seen all of arguments time after time from both Russian trolls and their useful idiots. The fact that you think people will fall for them is actualy somewhat insulting.

Cool Breeze wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:10 pm

jldavid47 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:18 am

Cool Breeze wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:50 pm You guys lack all sorts very important considerations in this and for pure propaganda, and russian hatred, which is Bizarre when you look at the rulers of the West, who are absolute filth and totally indifferent to others. By the way, they have WAY more death on their hands than Mr. Putin has, and it's not even close.

Your head is so far up Putin's ass that I'm surprised you can even see your keyboard to type.

At least you have a name, so I'll give you a shot at a real post:

Please tell me how the illegal NATO coup, Maidan Massacre, violation of the Minsk Accords/Agreements, among many other things (NATO/US biolabs in east ukraine, strikes on eastern Ukraine civilians, etc) didn't provoke the Russian invasion?

I don't expect to hear an answer, since you don't have one. John didn't have one either, so don't worry about it. Keep calling me names though, which further proves my points to be the real case.

And this is just more of the same copy/pate from RT or Sputnik.

How can you even type "illegal: in regard to Russia? What was "legal" about attacking Georgia and unilaterally recognizing separatist states? What was "legal" about invading Ukraine and stealing Crimea in violation of its Budapest Memorandum agreement? What is "legal" about invading Ukraine again with the goal of removing the current elected leadership and replacing it with persons of its choosing?

Maidan. Maidan. Maidan. You're like a broken record with this. The only people bringing up Maidan these days are Russians and its butt-boy supporters. Regardless of whether or not the result was warranted, there have since been elections which could have refuted it. The will of the Ukrainian people was not to do so.

The biolabs thing is yet another example of Russian misinformation. They were sponsored by the US Department of Defence’s Biological Threat Reduction Program and were for diagnostics and biodefence. They were not developing weapons which is the impression the Russians want to make. This has been well documented for months and bringing it up again is another tactic of desperation.

There was conflict in Eastern Ukraine between the Ukrainian government of separatist rebels; rebels which existed only because of the overt support of Russia which provided funding, equipment and even placed serving Russian soldiers in the area. Using this as a casus belli, the US or some other country could have attacked Russia for its wars in Chechnya.

To sum up, your arguments consists almost exclusively of Russian propaganda with very little added content. To expand on that, your posts are usually skip[pable because you don't say anything interesting and fall into typical Russian troll characteristics. I usually just ignore you as unworthy of notice, but you've started annoying me more than normal with Russian cock sucking opinions. If you really feel the need to inflict them on other people, at least put some work into it and make a personal contribution rather than copy/pasting off Russian proeganda sites.

David Haggith expresses my views on the Ukraine War much better than I ever could:
Independence for America and None for Ukraine? (Part One)
https://thegreatrecession.info/blog/ind ... -part-one/

Russia has no more right to involve itself in Ukraine’s civil conflict in the Donbas or any other region of Ukraine, just because many of the people in that region speak Russian, than the US would for involving itself in a civil war in Canada if Quebec decided to secede. The US could claim it was standing up against the genocide of the minority English-speaking populace of Quebec, but frankly it’s not our fight. Russia should have stayed out just as the US should stay out of other people’s civil wars. (If invited in by the established government, then it is your right to join in that defense if you choose.)

I refuse double standards. The US has been wrong for getting involved in civil wars in Syria and Libya, which is why I wrote against Hillary’s wars, but I will never use those wrongs, as many now do, as justification for Putin doing exactly the same thing. That kind of involvement is rarely about helping certain groups of oppressed people out as claimed. It’s about regime change — installing regimes that are friendly to and work with the US. What on earth do people think Putin is doing in Crimea and Donbas? It is all about regime change — ending the Zelensky regime’s governance of those areas and putting in place Russian-friendly governments.

I’d like to see those who hate the US involvement in other nation’s wars, just as I do, go after Putin with all the same animosity for his imperialism because Putin clearly seeks to make sure that all the nations around Russia are squarely under his thumb as he slaughters tens of thousands of men, women and children on the pretext that he hates Nazis and that he has to protect Russian-speaking people from genocide. I call bull crap! And I’ve heard many Russian-speaking people in Ukraine say they hate what Putin is doing. I also heard many Russian-speaking people in Russia saying they hated what Putin was doing until he started silencing them by putting them in gulags.

Lavrov Storms Out Of G20 Foreign Ministers Meeting Over "Fevered Criticism Of Russia"
BY TYLER DURDEN
FRIDAY, JUL 08, 2022 - 08:05 AM
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... ism-russia

Xeraphim1 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:53 pm There was no "illegal coup". Even had there been, elections have taken place since and no Russian stooge would possibly be elected. This "point" is spurious and the fact that you keep bringing it up must be because you have nothing else.

Victoria Nuland, who lied again to Senator Rubio in the bioweapon conference and debacle, was caught on tape admitting that the coup was staged, induced and supported by NATO. When the EU objected on that recording she was noted to have said, "F the EU". You don't recall? Of course you don't, it's too inconvenient. Facts are a problem for the politically and emotionally charged.

Tom Mazanec wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:39 am David Haggith expresses my views on the Ukraine War much better than I ever could:
Independence for America and None for Ukraine? (Part One)
https://thegreatrecession.info/blog/ind ... -part-one/

Russia has no more right to involve itself in Ukraine’s civil conflict in the Donbas or any other region of Ukraine, just because many of the people in that region speak Russian, than the US would for involving itself in a civil war in Canada if Quebec decided to secede. The US could claim it was standing up against the genocide of the minority English-speaking populace of Quebec, but frankly it’s not our fight. Russia should have stayed out just as the US should stay out of other people’s civil wars. (If invited in by the established government, then it is your right to join in that defense if you choose.)

I refuse double standards. The US has been wrong for getting involved in civil wars in Syria and Libya, which is why I wrote against Hillary’s wars, but I will never use those wrongs, as many now do, as justification for Putin doing exactly the same thing. That kind of involvement is rarely about helping certain groups of oppressed people out as claimed. It’s about regime change — installing regimes that are friendly to and work with the US. What on earth do people think Putin is doing in Crimea and Donbas? It is all about regime change — ending the Zelensky regime’s governance of those areas and putting in place Russian-friendly governments.

I’d like to see those who hate the US involvement in other nation’s wars, just as I do, go after Putin with all the same animosity for his imperialism because Putin clearly seeks to make sure that all the nations around Russia are squarely under his thumb as he slaughters tens of thousands of men, women and children on the pretext that he hates Nazis and that he has to protect Russian-speaking people from genocide. I call bull crap! And I’ve heard many Russian-speaking people in Ukraine say they hate what Putin is doing. I also heard many Russian-speaking people in Russia saying they hated what Putin was doing until he started silencing them by putting them in gulags.

Moral high horse-ing is just dumb after a while. The world is what it is. We can sit here across the pond in our lap of luxury (for the time being) and pontificate all we want, but our government isn't good guys. At all. That's the only point. Does that make Russia "good guys"? Of course not. The point of all my posts is that most of the people on this board use moral language regarding all of these historical wars and situations, I think to make themselves feel like they are good guys, or that they are "on the right side." It's all nonsense. War is a fact of life. Just like when you mess with a bull, you get the horns. It doesn't matter what we think of Russia's actions here, the truth is that they were provoked by the US and NATO. I have no opinion on whether they are good or not, because ultimately it doesn't matter. My point is that you can't take opinions of moral authority when you have none. It's like the leftists atheists telling everyone they are better "christians", in actuality, than the christians, which they commonly do. It is at best silliness, and at worst insane.

One Overlooked Democratic Plan That Could Have Catastrophic Consequences Before Mid-Terms

It’s the first political idea being floated recently that I truly think has the potential to provoke even further division (if that's possible) in the country.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2022-07- ... nsequences
Court packing.

Cool Breeze wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:41 am

Xeraphim1 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:53 pm There was no "illegal coup". Even had there been, elections have taken place since and no Russian stooge would possibly be elected. This "point" is spurious and the fact that you keep bringing it up must be because you have nothing else.

Victoria Nuland, who lied again to Senator Rubio in the bioweapon conference and debacle, was caught on tape admitting that the coup was staged, induced and supported by NATO. When the EU objected on that recording she was noted to have said, "F the EU". You don't recall? Of course you don't, it's too inconvenient. Facts are a problem for the politically and emotionally charged.

Did Nuland and others support the Maidan protests? Sure they did.Yanukovish was a Russian stooge (note where he is still hiding out), but neither Nuland, nor the US in general nor the EU nor NATO caused the Maidan protests nor did they control them. To say otherwise is the province of Russian trolls.