Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

JDav wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:05 pm The government stole their land and purposely forced each tribe onto lands nothing like where they had lived, so they were unable to practice their traditional forms of livelihood. You are correct that the land to which they were relocated was, and is still, the worst quality land. It's a crime that many tribes have resorted to opening casinos to make money, but most tribes are out in the middle of nowhere, and they can't even do that.

Then the government removed their children and sent them to boarding schools to be "Christianized" so they would unlearn their ancestors "savage" ways - look up the history of Haskell Indian Nations University, still in existence, where many of my relatives went. When the Bureau of Indian Affairs needed Indian liaisons to work with the tribes, providing health care, etc., they never employed members of that tribe or a neighboring tribe, lest there would be plots of rebellion.

If the people choose to just stop participating in a ponzi scheme the size of the Chinese real estate market, things could get very interesting. Especially when a bunch of properties that are actively losing value get dumped back on the already battered developers books.

Noble Savage wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:41 am

JDav wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:05 pm The government stole their land and purposely forced each tribe onto lands nothing like where they had lived, so they were unable to practice their traditional forms of livelihood. You are correct that the land to which they were relocated was, and is still, the worst quality land. It's a crime that many tribes have resorted to opening casinos to make money, but most tribes are out in the middle of nowhere, and they can't even do that.

Then the government removed their children and sent them to boarding schools to be "Christianized" so they would unlearn their ancestors "savage" ways - look up the history of Haskell Indian Nations University, still in existence, where many of my relatives went. When the Bureau of Indian Affairs needed Indian liaisons to work with the tribes, providing health care, etc., they never employed members of that tribe or a neighboring tribe, lest there would be plots of rebellion.

The problem is that this too lacks historical context. All the "American Indian" (both north and south America) battled it out to control land and resources too. They just met a greater power, and they were not advance. That's history and life.

What's more is that many of these groups were major savages. Many implemented demonic human sacrifices. Many were conquered because they were under the control of demons in this fashion, and yes God allowed it.

We can pick and choose what groups we think were more harmonious with nature, or less savage, or whatever, but the fact remains that mostly it's just a sour grapes thing or an appeal to emotion for some underdog that got dominated. There are thousands of groups over time that got such treatment and never had bleeding hearts cover their story. Let bygones be bygones. America is already subverted; there's your "revenge."

Bob Butler wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:49 pm

JDav wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:05 pm I personally bear no resentment, as my upbringing was far removed from all that, but I have relatives that do. I just brought it up as part of an examination of the nature, and permanence, of evil throughout the world.

Not sure if the Native Americans had it the worst of the worst of the bad time, but it was bad enough.

I would disagree as to the permanence of evil, though. From the S&H perspective, each crisis will strike down one or two ugly elements. Each makes America more American. The progressive side in the US crises tends to win, the conservative side is with the evil. The Revolution was against colonial imperialism and noble privilege, for democracy. The Civil War was against slavery, for westward expansion (admittedly flawed) and industrialism. FDR's time saw regulation of the economy and promoted containment. Trump worked with racists and against rule of law. Sure, a lot was wrong, new evils replaced old, and each crisis can correct only a few things at a time. Greed and oppression of other cultures is pervasive throughout history. But are the evils permanent? No where near clear.

JDav wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:08 pm

Bob Butler wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:49 pm

JDav wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:05 pm I personally bear no resentment, as my upbringing was far removed from all that, but I have relatives that do. I just brought it up as part of an examination of the nature, and permanence, of evil throughout the world.

Not sure if the Native Americans had it the worst of the worst of the bad time, but it was bad enough.

I would disagree as to the permanence of evil, though. From the S&H perspective, each crisis will strike down one or two ugly elements. Each makes America more American. The progressive side in the US crises tends to win, the conservative side is with the evil. The Revolution was against colonial imperialism and noble privilege, for democracy. The Civil War was against slavery, for westward expansion (admittedly flawed) and industrialism. FDR's time saw regulation of the economy and promoted containment. Trump worked with racists and against rule of law. Sure, a lot was wrong, new evils replaced old, and each crisis can correct only a few things at a time. Greed and oppression of other cultures is pervasive throughout history. But are the evils permanent? No where near clear.

When I was talking about the permanence of evil I wasn't talking about specific events, but the nature of evil itself. You may conquer it in one place but it will eventually show itself in another.

JDav wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:44 pm

Thank you. That was the original point I was trying to make - wars of conquest are as old as man himself, and they continue to this day. Why are we so intent on Ukraine when it is happening in dozens of places across the globe? How about if we let the Russia/Ukraine conflict play itself out and let bygones be bygones, rather than sending $65 billion so far and counting over there, with US Democrats demanding that the IMF send another 2/3 of a TRILLION dollars? What is so important to them over there? Inquiring minds want to know.

If the argument for getting involved in the war is that Putin is committing atrocious acts against the people of Ukraine, I just want to see a little consistency in the application of that reasoning throughout all the global conflicts, but I don't.

As to your comment about demonic human sacrifices, they continue to this day in this country. See the previous discussion on abortion. No point in rehashing it here.