Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

Bob Butler wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:28 am

Navigator wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:00 pm

Bob Butler wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:51 am
I see you found nothing in the Bill of Rights. There is no guarantee that you will never be on the loosing side of an issue?

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights about having to pay for illegal immigrants (or for any other governmental social program).

The short form for democracy goes something like “the will of the majority checked by the rights of the people”. The Bill of Rights focuses on the rights of the people. The will of the majority is covered more by the bulk of the original constitution where the powers of government and ability to pay for it are enumerated. States and cities run much the same.

Over the years, what government can pay for has expanded. There is an interpretation that since you can collect funds you can spend them. As a result the power to spend money has expanded to cover more than the enumerated powers. You can spend on anything. Less than optimal. A problem even. The original founders for some reason did not mention a word about building airports, regulating flights, or going to the moon, yet we do those things. States and cities have even less enumerated powers. They are sovereign. There are no lists of what they can do generally.

I have thought of going back to the enumerated powers list, but the difference between the modern day and what the founding fathers thought of is a bit big. It would seem to require a constitutional convention, and we seem too divided for that.

But the basics is that the “will of the people” is determined by the majority. If you are in the minority on this, you cannot override the majority’s will. That just would not work.

Now some service provided by government are self funding. It is common to pay for town water by the gallon, and to pay for drivers licenses. You could set up a branch of government, similar to the Red Cross, which provides food and shelter for those in need. You could pay to fund this organization by volunteering funds. This could be done, but for the most part the sanctuary cities have not set it up that way.

Guest wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:12 am

Bob Butler wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:28 am

Navigator wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:00 pm

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights about having to pay for illegal immigrants (or for any other governmental social program).

The short form for democracy goes something like “the will of the majority checked by the rights of the people”. The Bill of Rights focuses on the rights of the people. The will of the majority is covered more by the bulk of the original constitution where the powers of government and ability to pay for it are enumerated. States and cities run much the same.

Over the years, what government can pay for has expanded. There is an interpretation that since you can collect funds you can spend them. As a result the power to spend money has expanded to cover more than the enumerated powers. You can spend on anything. Less than optimal. A problem even. The original founders for some reason did not mention a word about building airports, regulating flights, or going to the moon, yet we do those things. States and cities have even less enumerated powers. They are sovereign. There are no lists of what they can do generally.

I have thought of going back to the enumerated powers list, but the difference between the modern day and what the founding fathers thought of is a bit big. It would seem to require a constitutional convention, and we seem too divided for that.

But the basics is that the “will of the people” is determined by the majority. If you are in the minority on this, you cannot override the majority’s will. That just would not work.

Now some service provided by government are self funding. It is common to pay for town water by the gallon, and to pay for drivers licenses. You could set up a branch of government, similar to the Red Cross, which provides food and shelter for those in need. You could pay to fund this organization by volunteering funds. This could be done, but for the most part the sanctuary cities have not set it up that way.

Why America will not survive the decade.

But the basics is that the “will of the people” is determined by the majority. If you are in the minority on this, you cannot override the majority’s will. That just would not work.

thomasglee wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:26 amThis quote from BB is very telling. He doesn't even know what kind of governing system (Constitutional Republic) we have....

But the basics is that the “will of the people” is determined by the majority. If you are in the minority on this, you cannot override the majority’s will. That just would not work.

Bob Butler wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:31 pm

thomasglee wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:26 amThis quote from BB is very telling. He doesn't even know what kind of governing system (Constitutional Republic) we have....

But the basics is that the “will of the people” is determined by the majority. If you are in the minority on this, you cannot override the majority’s will. That just would not work.

Could you then provide a similar summary of your vision of a Constitutional Republic? You criticize without specifics or alternative.

thomasglee wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:28 pmA constitutional, representative republic is not based on mob (majority) rule. You seem to believe we are a pure democracy when we are not. I shouldn't have to educate you on such matters.

Cool Breeze wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:40 am We could have some common ground here as you brought up why the feds are so diseased and so many rights have been taken away, but the truth is that it's a waste of time discussing things with people who can't reason and aren't honest otherwise.

New York City Charter wrote:§ 28. Powers of council. a. The council in addition to all enumerated powers shall have power to adopt local laws which it deems appropriate, which are not inconsistent with the provisions of this charter or with the constitution or laws of the United States or this state, for the good rule and government of the city; for the order, protection and government of persons and property; for the preservation of the public health, comfort, peace and prosperity of the city and its inhabitants; and to effectuate the purposes and provisions of this charter or of the other laws relating to the city.

Other than the right to control one’s own body, what examples of rights removed can you give?