Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

JDav wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 pm

Xeraphim1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:06 pm

JDav wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:06 am
As long as the people in power are profiting (I'm sure there are Republicans in on this, as well), there is absolutely no incentive to end the Ukrainian conflict. So it drags on, causing maximum financial suffering for the American people, and maximum physical suffering for the Ukrainian people. We could have put pressure on either side to end the conflict quickly, but the ugly truth is the American government doesn't WANT it to end.

I'm interested in how you think the US can end the Ukraine war. Huge sanctions have been placed on Russia and have not changed its behavior at all. The only thing I can think of would be to try to force Ukraine to hand over the territory that Russia has seized. Is that what you are proposing? Keeping in mind that Ukrainians don't favor that outcome.

Without reliving our entire back and forth from three months ago - if we stopped supplying cash and weapons to Ukraine the conflict would end relatively quickly. I remember you questioning my "gut feeling" about corruption that wasn't backed up by facts. Well, the facts are trickling out that the Dems, some Republicans (and I don't believe for a minute that Zelensky himself isn't in on it) are using Ukraine as a money-laundering operation. What sayest thou now?

The normally anti-war left ALWAYS chooses money and power over human life. Some people are fine with that; I am not. It was clear to me from the start that our motivation for getting involved was strictly profit. The price for that is more, and worse, suffering and loss of life for the Ukrainian people than they would have experienced without our "aid", and more worldwide suffering in general. American politicians (and others) have much blood on their hands, and will ultimately be held to account for the unnecessary consequences of their fecklessness.

As an aside, if Trump had been president, this conflict would not have started because - 1) the scum in Washington would not have been able to profit like they are now, and 2) he would have brought the full force of American military, economic, and diplomatic might to bear to prevent it.

Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:09 am

JDav wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 pm

Xeraphim1 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:06 pm

Without reliving our entire back and forth from three months ago - if we stopped supplying cash and weapons to Ukraine the conflict would end relatively quickly. I remember you questioning my "gut feeling" about corruption that wasn't backed up by facts. Well, the facts are trickling out that the Dems, some Republicans (and I don't believe for a minute that Zelensky himself isn't in on it) are using Ukraine as a money-laundering operation. What sayest thou now?

The normally anti-war left ALWAYS chooses money and power over human life. Some people are fine with that; I am not. It was clear to me from the start that our motivation for getting involved was strictly profit. The price for that is more, and worse, suffering and loss of life for the Ukrainian people than they would have experienced without our "aid", and more worldwide suffering in general. American politicians (and others) have much blood on their hands, and will ultimately be held to account for the unnecessary consequences of their fecklessness.

As an aside, if Trump had been president, this conflict would not have started because - 1) the scum in Washington would not have been able to profit like they are now, and 2) he would have brought the full force of American military, economic, and diplomatic might to bear to prevent it.

Ah, ok. Cut the Ukrainians off and they'll have to surrender to Russia giving Putin whatever he wants. I suppose that's one way to end a war.

JDav wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:07 am

Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:09 am

JDav wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 pm
Without reliving our entire back and forth from three months ago - if we stopped supplying cash and weapons to Ukraine the conflict would end relatively quickly. I remember you questioning my "gut feeling" about corruption that wasn't backed up by facts. Well, the facts are trickling out that the Dems, some Republicans (and I don't believe for a minute that Zelensky himself isn't in on it) are using Ukraine as a money-laundering operation. What sayest thou now?

The normally anti-war left ALWAYS chooses money and power over human life. Some people are fine with that; I am not. It was clear to me from the start that our motivation for getting involved was strictly profit. The price for that is more, and worse, suffering and loss of life for the Ukrainian people than they would have experienced without our "aid", and more worldwide suffering in general. American politicians (and others) have much blood on their hands, and will ultimately be held to account for the unnecessary consequences of their fecklessness.

As an aside, if Trump had been president, this conflict would not have started because - 1) the scum in Washington would not have been able to profit like they are now, and 2) he would have brought the full force of American military, economic, and diplomatic might to bear to prevent it.

Ah, ok. Cut the Ukrainians off and they'll have to surrender to Russia giving Putin whatever he wants. I suppose that's one way to end a war.

Do you not remember anything that you or I said three months ago? The only thing that's changed is that what I only suspected three months ago is proving true, and you have no comment, which speaks volumes about you.

Seeing the D-MED data, I have significant concerns that within 5 years we will not have a standing military.

tim wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:34 pm https://rumble.com/embed/v1tq9de/

Around 24:00

Seeing the D-MED data, I have significant concerns that within 5 years we will not have a standing military.

JDav wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:07 am

Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:09 am

JDav wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 pm
Without reliving our entire back and forth from three months ago - if we stopped supplying cash and weapons to Ukraine the conflict would end relatively quickly. I remember you questioning my "gut feeling" about corruption that wasn't backed up by facts. Well, the facts are trickling out that the Dems, some Republicans (and I don't believe for a minute that Zelensky himself isn't in on it) are using Ukraine as a money-laundering operation. What sayest thou now?

The normally anti-war left ALWAYS chooses money and power over human life. Some people are fine with that; I am not. It was clear to me from the start that our motivation for getting involved was strictly profit. The price for that is more, and worse, suffering and loss of life for the Ukrainian people than they would have experienced without our "aid", and more worldwide suffering in general. American politicians (and others) have much blood on their hands, and will ultimately be held to account for the unnecessary consequences of their fecklessness.

As an aside, if Trump had been president, this conflict would not have started because - 1) the scum in Washington would not have been able to profit like they are now, and 2) he would have brought the full force of American military, economic, and diplomatic might to bear to prevent it.

Ah, ok. Cut the Ukrainians off and they'll have to surrender to Russia giving Putin whatever he wants. I suppose that's one way to end a war.

Do you not remember anything that you or I said three months ago? The only thing that's changed is that what I only suspected three months ago is proving true, and you have no comment, which speaks volumes about you.

Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:16 pm

JDav wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:07 am

Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:09 am

Ah, ok. Cut the Ukrainians off and they'll have to surrender to Russia giving Putin whatever he wants. I suppose that's one way to end a war.

Do you not remember anything that you or I said three months ago? The only thing that's changed is that what I only suspected three months ago is proving true, and you have no comment, which speaks volumes about you.

I had to review since I didn't recall. After looking over the exchange we had in July, I don't see how anything you said changed. If anything, the reasons to support Ukraine have increased since Russia is losing and Ukraine is winning. You seem to think that opposing Russia's aggression will lead to WWIII and that Russia should be given everything it wants. I reject that idea as do most people. In fact, if Russia had been opposed more strenuously in the past, it may have never started this war.

And if we use your same thinking, we should abandon Taiwan and South Korea and Japan and Poland and the Baltic states and every other country and let the aggressor countries take what they want with the US washing its hands. I strongly reject that idea as not just wrong, but foolishly wrong.