Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

Higgenbotham wrote:This thing in Baltimore is getting interesting. Now they're going to try (or pretend) to sacrifice 6 cops, 3 white and 3 black. I wonder if the cops (meaning the whole force) are going to fight back or what they will do. Notice how the Mayor used the divide and conquer tactic on the force in her speech.

When talking about this earlier this week, I mentioned the idea that there's an issue the media and the authorities don't want to discuss re Baltimore and other slums. That is, little known to most people, the gangs have already taken over areas that the police are unable to patrol. There are probably certain areas the gangs are butting up on now that they cannot lose for strategic reasons. Therefore, violence is going to be inevitable.

Charging the cops sends the message that the soldiers that are maintaining the boundaries of the empire are being sacrificed. That may embolden the gangs for the time being. Then we'll have to see if they convict the cops or quietly drop the charges.

There was a guy on a video talking about the fact that a few Baltimore cops killed a guy several months ago and no charges were filed. Now all of a sudden it is important to file charges as the population gets restive. The hypocrisy and corruption is clearly evident.

This has to do with the fact that the authorities have illegitimately grown population levels for personal gain in the manner previously described.

I think Limits to Growth can also mean: How much can you let the dependent population multiply before they lose control of the cities as appears to be happening in Baltimore? Got any Harvard or Johns Hopkins graduates having babies in Baltimore? That is funny. It is such a preposterous thought as to be funny.

Regarding who gets to have children and who pays and how many ( and I might add voting ) is a political and social issue to benefit a controlling few, until it blows up or collapses, same as before in history - example, see end of Rome.

gerald wrote: Your limits stated are Earth and current physical body structure. Earth is not the only planet and humanity is messing around with genetics. As for cockroaches and other things, Nature sets limits within a specific context, leave the context and the "limits" change.

I've never seen anyone try to run through it logically but something like this comes to mind:

1. If there were no limits to growth, another species would have very likely already come into our solar system (from outside our solar system), or at least passed through.
2. If they passed through and determined the human race was salvageable, they would have attempted to impart some knowledge and allowed the human race to expand, since there are no limits.
3. If they passed through and determined the human race was not salvageable, they might leave it alone except to observe it and let it die out.
4. If another species in the universe has not yet reached the level of human development and humans are the first to get to this level, all we know at this point is that the history of populations on earth show that overshoot and collapse is the only trajectory that has ever occurred. We could also infer that the reason we are the first is that overshoot and collapse has occurred in other places in the universe also.

Higgenbotham wrote:

gerald wrote: Your limits stated are Earth and current physical body structure. Earth is not the only planet and humanity is messing around with genetics. As for cockroaches and other things, Nature sets limits within a specific context, leave the context and the "limits" change.

I've never seen anyone try to run through it logically but something like this comes to mind:

1. If there were no limits to growth, another species would have very likely already come into our solar system (from outside our solar system), or at least passed through.
2. If they passed through and determined the human race was salvageable, they would have attempted to impart some knowledge and allowed the human race to expand, since there are no limits.
3. If they passed through and determined the human race was not salvageable, they might leave it alone except to observe it and let it die out.
4. If another species in the universe has not yet reached the level of human development and humans are the first to get to this level, all we know at this point is that the history of populations on earth show that overshoot and collapse is the only trajectory that has ever occurred. We could also infer that the reason we are the first is that overshoot and collapse has occurred in other places in the universe also.

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5. An experiment to see what happens.
6. A prison for the undesirables.
7. A school.-- In Hinduism and some other religions, one reincarnates. One could say,-- so as to gain and learn from different experiences and eventually "graduate" into a different realm after passing the various "classes". This may help explain why history appears to repeat.
-------------------------------------

I have come across #1 - #4 before. It a very logical argument. However, we don't know what the unknowns are. Yea, I know it is a weaselly answer. But to feel good, there is probably an answer to the quandary that we just can't fathom at this point.

cheers

Higgenbotham wrote:

.In June 1997, two of Dangerfield's tenants complained that he had refused to fix a broken-down rowhouse at 1943 N. Patterson Park Ave., where they were renting a room for $55 a week. The plumbing leaked. Wires hung out of the walls. Gas hissed from the broken stove. Rats and roaches teemed in the basement. Perusing the long list of deficiencies, a housing court judge ordered the landlord to fix the property and barred him from evicting his renters in the meantime. Two weeks later, on a hot July night, Dangerfield eased his Rolls Royce onto Patterson Park Avenue, parked it under a street light and watched in a pinstriped suit as five of his men tore the door off its hinges and herded the occupants into the street, witnesses later testified. "I felt like less than a man that night," recalls Eric Holmes, a 41-year-old disabled Army veteran who lived there with his wife. "But there was nothing I could do. They dragged us out of bed. One guy had a gun in his belt. The rest of them were all crowding around us, knocking stuff over and yelling. You ever seen a barroom brawl? That's what it was like. "Next thing I knew, I was on the sidewalk in my underwear. And George was laughing at us. They all were laughing at us. "As his troops shoved Holmes' belongings out a rear window into a garbage-strewn alley full of chained guard dogs, Dangerfield leaned on the gleaming hood of his Rolls out front, holding court for his many tenants on the block of rowhouse shells, court records show. Dangerfield owns four houses there, partitioned into tenement flats for three families, all sharing the same kitchen and bathroom and paying their rent week-to-week. Called into court for violating the judge's order, he pleaded guilty to wrongful eviction and received a $500 fine -- small consolation to Holmes and his wife. "It's like something out of a Charles Dickens novel," says Kenneth M. Walden, a poverty lawyer with the Public Justice Center who is now suing Dangerfield for assault and trespass in the incident. "We deal with some fairly desperate clients, so we're used to seeing bad conditions. But this is a new low. "That Mr. Dangerfield can get away with using tactics like these is a sign of how bad things are out there.

I am not a lawyer but was a landlord in Chicago, if I did the above I would be sued and charged with breaking and entering, intimidation and probably more, which are criminal offences in which you get jail time. Talk about rotten.

gerald wrote:5. An experiment to see what happens.

Yes, I had thought about this one a few years back. Here's how I reasoned it out. Let's say a superior being visited planet earth and found some naked Neaderthals or whatever wandering around grunting, using a bit of fire, picking berries, hunting mastadons, killing each other occasionally by busting skulls with rocks, etc. So the aliens decide to cross these savages with some of their own genes to see what happens. They create various types of humans for various environments on earth and put a few of each onto different parts of the earth.

If this really happened what does it tell us?

I think it first tells us that the superior beings clearly understood space travel and survivability before they clearly understood genetics. Because they got here first, then still had a need to conduct an experiment. Also, because they understood genetics enough to know that the experimentation is quite dangerous, they undertook the experiment in an isolated location so as to not harm their own environment.

So what does that tell us?

It tells us that since humans haven't been able to master space travel yet, they are going to get themselves into big trouble if they try to manipulate genes at this time. They are unready to do it and have no escape valve if their own experiment (Monsanto, etc.) goes terribly wrong.

Any species that is fit for survival would realize they have to master space travel first before they attempt to conduct genetic experiments, then conduct the experiments in laboratories, so to speak, that are isolated from the environment on which they depend.

gerald wrote:I am not a lawyer but was a landlord in Chicago, if I did the above I would be sued and charged with breaking and entering, intimidation and probably more, which are criminal offences in which you get jail time. Talk about rotten.

My observation is it depends on where you own your properties.

I knew a guy who was a retired cop. He kept it a bit simpler. If the tenant didn't pay the rent or he wanted them out he just went over to the house and took the doors off.

He could get away with that because law and order had broken down in the area he operated in. That can happen for various combinations of the below:

1. The tenants don't want to get the cops involved because there are existing warrants out on them. I was told at one time that area had 5,000 warrants out on 35,000 people. Probably the worst of it had over half of the population with outstanding warrants out on them. The reason for the high percentage of warrants is that if you stay inside the areas the cops stay out of you can't get arrested.
2. The cops don't go into those neighborhoods because the gangs have ordered hits on any cop seen in that area.
3. The tenants can't read or write.
4. The cops just don't go into those areas because they don't want to or there are not enough resources to take care of everything so they ignore certain areas and let them rot.
5. A few other reasons I don't know or have forgotten.

I think the reason Dangerfield got into trouble was he became so brazen that what he was doing got to broadcasted to a wider audience and they felt they had to do something. If he had just stuck to something like taking doors off he probably would have been OK.

It is the scientists now who fill the shoes of Dr. Pangloss.

As we noted often here NAFTA was the sticky wage solution.
During the operation they lost one third wages and half benefits then.
The rest we know. We are descending locally on todays view to just hanging on
and social implosion.

The spring ride was wrought with caution by some and blatant
heads accosting people locally. http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/Milton/pl3.html

In blissful solitude; he then survey'd Hell and the gulf between, and Satan there
Coasting the wall of Heaven on this side Night.

"biological terrain and infectious illnesses" Aug 02, 2013 : It's clear today that development in Russia didn't go the way the West anticipated. Russia became the perfect KGB state. 80% of government officials are former or active KGB officers, including President Vladimir Putin himself. The objective of the Soviet regime was to overthrow the United States as the world's leading power. The Soviet KGB fathered state-sponsored terrorism. The PLO was dreamt up by KGB. In 1960s a new element was added to the Soviet/PLO war; international terrorism. Today's international terrorism was conceived at the Lubyanka.
As Yuri Andropov once explained to Ion Pacepa, the Muslim world was a Petri dish in which the Russians might "nurture a virulent strain of America-hatred from the bacterium of Marxist-Leninist thought." KGB General Alexander Sakharovsky once said to Pacepa: "In today's world, when nuclear arms have made military force obsolete, terrorism should become our main weapon."

The local 2014 numbers posted are accurate.
Thread noted: Recent local numbers last 60 days for us outside in the real world also in Michigan:
21.8 percent of children living in poverty 2011, a jump of 30 percent since 2005 in our area.
4 out of every 10 children live in poverty as it was conveyed now in 2014.

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For man will hearken to his glozing lies, And easily transgress the sole command, Sole pledge of his obedience: So will fall
He and his faithless progeny: Whose fault? Whose but his own? ingrate, he had of me All he could have; I made him just and right,
Sufficient to have stood, though free to fall. milton


When you’re one step ahead of the crowd you’re a genius. When you’re two steps ahead, you’re a crackpot. Rabbi Shlomo Riskin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteVmdoo1yI

The revolution is between humanity's ears... and they don't want the responsibility.

“Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.” Euripides

- Lovers of themselves — check
- Lovers of money — check
- Boasters and proud — check
- Blasphemers — check
- Disobedient to parents — check
- Unthankful — check
- Unholy — check
- Unloving — check
- Unforgiving — check
- Slanderers — check
- Without self-control — check
- Brutal despisers of good — check
- Traitors — check
- Headstrong, haughty — check
- Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God — check
- Having a form of godliness but denying its power — check

I think that about sums it up. 2 Timothy

a from the grain colony

Casualties were slight compared to later battles, rarely amounting to more than 5% of the losing side, but the slain often included the most prominent citizens and generals who led from the front.

Tellus... had both beautiful and good children, and he saw all his grandchildren from birth and all remaining alive... And the end of his life was most brilliant: for when the Athenians had a war against their neighbor's in Eleusis, coming to the rescue and making a rout of the enemy he died most beautifully, and the Athenians had buried him publicly right where he fell, and honoured him greatly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEluoeM ... AF&index=7

Munny threatens the townsfolk before finally leaving Big Whiskey

Higgenbotham wrote:

gerald wrote:I am not a lawyer but was a landlord in Chicago, if I did the above I would be sued and charged with breaking and entering, intimidation and probably more, which are criminal offences in which you get jail time. Talk about rotten.

My observation is it depends on where you own your properties.

I knew a guy who was a retired cop. He kept it a bit simpler. If the tenant didn't pay the rent or he wanted them out he just went over to the house and took the doors off.

He could get away with that because law and order had broken down in the area he operated in. That can happen for various combinations of the below:

1. The tenants don't want to get the cops involved because there are existing warrants out on them. I was told at one time that area had 5,000 warrants out on 35,000 people. Probably the worst of it had over half of the population with outstanding warrants out on them. The reason for the high percentage of warrants is that if you stay inside the areas the cops stay out of you can't get arrested.
2. The cops don't go into those neighborhoods because the gangs have ordered hits on any cop seen in that area.
3. The tenants can't read or write.
4. The cops just don't go into those areas because they don't want to or there are not enough resources to take care of everything so they ignore certain areas and let them rot.
5. A few other reasons I don't know or have forgotten.

I think the reason Dangerfield got into trouble was he became so brazen that what he was doing got to broadcasted to a wider audience and they felt they had to do something. If he had just stuck to something like taking doors off he probably would have been OK.

Boy I couldn't do that, I am just not put together that way. I prefer to deal with people who are more or less straight and can be related to in a mostly rational manner. -- I knew an elevator repair man ( he serviced my elevators ) and serviced the elevators for the Chicago Housing Authority. When police had to respond to an issue in these buildings they went in a group for protection. Many times this serviceman alone had to walk up 20 flights of stairs because the "residents" liked to play with the elevators. He was ex-military packed a respectable side arm and said he had no problem with the tenants. As for his life style, his wife lived in a distant Chicago suburb where he spent the weekends, and during the week he spent his time with his mistress in the city. I guess people are just different.

I've talked about this before but I owned property in an area that was borderline. Meaning for example if you crossed the street half a block to the north, from there the insurance companies didn't insure in those areas. You had to go into a State Insurance Plan which cost about 5 times as much or go without insurance. You were OK in that area if the locals knew who you were. I didn't cross that street and venture into that area too often. Nobody did. One day the bank branch manager sold me on the idea of looking at a house up there that was bank owned. He said knock on the door and ask for Gail. When Gail answered and I asked if she was Gail she screamed at me "Who wants to know?" There was a short awkward silence, then she smiled and said, "Oh, I know you, come on in." Half a block south where I was I could leave an aluminum extension ladder behind the house for months and the locals didn't touch it. They could have easily hauled the ladder away and taken it a few blocks to a recycling center. For some reason they didn't. I was very careful to mind my own business. I turned a blind eye to the crack delivery guy; just smiled and said hello. That would have been in this case the guy who delivered the manila envelope for distribution from the drug house. I never talked to the good looking women or even looked. There was a super hot chick who hung out across the street and the first I ever talked to her was when she said hello to me in the library like 5 years after I had first seen her. I did talk to the older folks and the men. There was a drug related killing around the corner half a block to the north where a guy was shot in his vehicle and found slumped over dead. The police did come in and tape it off. On the other hand, one day there was a large riot that involved about 300 people in the same area. I drove through just as it was breaking up. The police did not respond to that. Perhaps they were never called. I know they didn't patrol that area and was told so by the locals and told why. I would not have felt comfortable taking anybody's doors off but I suppose it would have been possible in the block to the north. The guy who took the doors off was in a different area across town.