Trump will win.spottybrowncow wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:38 am Thank you, John and Navigator, for your insights. I have great respect for both of your opinions.
However, while I haven't seen the polls Navigator referenced, I can't see Trump's popularity decreasing significantly with a conviction. In fact, if anything, I think a conviction would increase his popularity, because all of his supporters (and a good number of his detractors) think most or all of his prosecutions are politically motivated. The man is like Godzilla - lobbing atomic bombs at him just seems to make him stronger.
I think John is on to something. "Trumpism" (whatever that is) is NOT going away unless he is beaten in a general election that most people believe is conducted fairly. Hopefully the SC is planning to ensure that.
Generational Dynamics World View News
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
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Bob Butler
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
To disagree with John…
Trump is hated by a bunch of people. He is criminal. Most sane people believe criminals should not be elected to high office. This is rational. Hundreds of investigations have been initiated. The first on the schedule is streamlined and simplified as suggested, but his crimes are many and charged. The total is currently 91, and properly so.
The Supreme Court’s job is not to insure that particular candidates will reach a given election. It is to make sure the Constitution is followed. The Constitution says sworn insurrectionists should not hold office. The decision is not likely to be 9 - 0. It has been our habit to treat non unanimous decisions as if they were unanimous. The country is absurdly divided, but rule of law suggests all men are equal under law, and there ought to be a trial for each crime observed. I anticipate that.
Trump nominated a bunch of conservative jurists suggested by the Federalist Society. They have turned out to have conservative political leaning, but respect rule of law. They are in part of reason why the courts firmly rejected Trump’s lies so far, and I am optimistic they will continue to do so.
I imagine several ways in which conservatives are apt to be disappointed, and they tend to get violent when their so called thought processes are frustrated. They want their own prejudices, superstitions and culture forced on others, and cannot seem to conceive of freedom. This could lead to a violent late 2024. The argument that such violence will not occur is the arrest of the January 6 2021 insurrectionists. Lots of people have noticed what happens when you break the law. While I’m sure some conservatives will want violence, lawlessness and insurrection, they have been very reluctant to respond to Trumps recent hints of violence. It is not so certain there will be a strong response after all the evidence has been presented.
In short, we will probably have to work through 2024.
Trump is hated by a bunch of people. He is criminal. Most sane people believe criminals should not be elected to high office. This is rational. Hundreds of investigations have been initiated. The first on the schedule is streamlined and simplified as suggested, but his crimes are many and charged. The total is currently 91, and properly so.
The Supreme Court’s job is not to insure that particular candidates will reach a given election. It is to make sure the Constitution is followed. The Constitution says sworn insurrectionists should not hold office. The decision is not likely to be 9 - 0. It has been our habit to treat non unanimous decisions as if they were unanimous. The country is absurdly divided, but rule of law suggests all men are equal under law, and there ought to be a trial for each crime observed. I anticipate that.
Trump nominated a bunch of conservative jurists suggested by the Federalist Society. They have turned out to have conservative political leaning, but respect rule of law. They are in part of reason why the courts firmly rejected Trump’s lies so far, and I am optimistic they will continue to do so.
I imagine several ways in which conservatives are apt to be disappointed, and they tend to get violent when their so called thought processes are frustrated. They want their own prejudices, superstitions and culture forced on others, and cannot seem to conceive of freedom. This could lead to a violent late 2024. The argument that such violence will not occur is the arrest of the January 6 2021 insurrectionists. Lots of people have noticed what happens when you break the law. While I’m sure some conservatives will want violence, lawlessness and insurrection, they have been very reluctant to respond to Trumps recent hints of violence. It is not so certain there will be a strong response after all the evidence has been presented.
In short, we will probably have to work through 2024.
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
Trump is the subject of a witch hunt. A dangerous witch hunt.Bob Butler wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:20 pm To disagree with John…
Trump is hated by a bunch of people. He is criminal. Most sane people believe criminals should not be elected to high office. This is rational. Hundreds of investigations have been initiated. The first on the schedule is streamlined and simplified as suggested, but his crimes are many and charged. The total is currently 91, and properly so.
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Bob Butler
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Re: Here, witchy, witchy, witch...
Which Trump is not.
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Re: Here, witchy, witchy, witch...
I think that Hunter and Joe Biden are the criminals, and Jill Biden is the witch.
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Bob Butler
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Crises
You know, the country could not be so badly divided if at least one side was lying and their followers believed the lies. Trump lied about the election being rigged, and the courts called him on it. Sixty court cases found there was no basis for the lies. The House of Representatives is currently starting an official impeachment inquiry against Biden when they have absolutely zero evidence. Fox News pled guilty to lying for profit and handled over a multi million dollar payment to Dominion in admission of their perpetual lies. Smartmatic pending. Giuliani is currently working through the punishment phase of his lies about the Georgia election workers. His defense? He has no money left after paying restitution for all his other lies.
Thus, I am going on the assumption that the conservative bosses are lying habitually. I have been assuming after a few more Trump court cases expose with evidence a few more of Trump’s lies, the country might become whole again. Maybe not. The conservative media will lie about what happened, and those addicted to the lies will cling to them.
The last several S&H crises have had various things pin the key issues, documenting the new values created by the crisis. The Revolution featured the Declaration of Independence. Fewer delve into the Federalist Papers, which go into far more detail. Even fewer delve into the conservative arguments favoring noble privilege and colonial imperialism. The Civil War featured two major Lincoln speeches, the Gettysburg Address and the Second Inaugural. Few bother with the writings of the abolitionists. Fewer still take seriously the conservative claims that blacks are subhuman and must be enslaved for their own good. FDR had a couple of good one liners. “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” “A date which will live in infamy.” How many have delved into the fireside chats? How many read the conservative claims that the government does not have the power to regulate the economy, and that the Fascist conquests are a good thing?
This crisis might well be remembered by a few books. Recently, I keep bumping into Cassady Hutchinson’s “Enough” and Liz Cheney’s “Oath and Honor”. I have even heard rumor that Nancy Pelosi is working on a third book. These are longer documents than in the previous crises, but peg down firmly that there is indeed a witch worth hunting. The odd thing is that a few scenes in the books document interactions between the three women. As diverse as they are in politics and experience, they recognized other patriots. Given the crisis thus documented, will anyone bother with the conservative lies, any more the treatise on noble privilege, slavery and fascism?
But that is the future. For now, the conservatives are into prejudice, superstition and imposing their culture on others. To get these, they must believe in liars or pretend to. How hard the base clings to the lies will determine how late 2024 resolves.
Thus, I am going on the assumption that the conservative bosses are lying habitually. I have been assuming after a few more Trump court cases expose with evidence a few more of Trump’s lies, the country might become whole again. Maybe not. The conservative media will lie about what happened, and those addicted to the lies will cling to them.
The last several S&H crises have had various things pin the key issues, documenting the new values created by the crisis. The Revolution featured the Declaration of Independence. Fewer delve into the Federalist Papers, which go into far more detail. Even fewer delve into the conservative arguments favoring noble privilege and colonial imperialism. The Civil War featured two major Lincoln speeches, the Gettysburg Address and the Second Inaugural. Few bother with the writings of the abolitionists. Fewer still take seriously the conservative claims that blacks are subhuman and must be enslaved for their own good. FDR had a couple of good one liners. “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” “A date which will live in infamy.” How many have delved into the fireside chats? How many read the conservative claims that the government does not have the power to regulate the economy, and that the Fascist conquests are a good thing?
This crisis might well be remembered by a few books. Recently, I keep bumping into Cassady Hutchinson’s “Enough” and Liz Cheney’s “Oath and Honor”. I have even heard rumor that Nancy Pelosi is working on a third book. These are longer documents than in the previous crises, but peg down firmly that there is indeed a witch worth hunting. The odd thing is that a few scenes in the books document interactions between the three women. As diverse as they are in politics and experience, they recognized other patriots. Given the crisis thus documented, will anyone bother with the conservative lies, any more the treatise on noble privilege, slavery and fascism?
But that is the future. For now, the conservatives are into prejudice, superstition and imposing their culture on others. To get these, they must believe in liars or pretend to. How hard the base clings to the lies will determine how late 2024 resolves.
Last edited by Bob Butler on Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here, witchy, witchy, witch...
Agree. There is a mountain of evidence against the Biden's, and they have gotten away with it.Guest wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:31 amI think that Hunter and Joe Biden are the criminals, and Jill Biden is the witch.
Butler is one of the flying monkeys.
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Bob Butler
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Lies
See? The conservatives will cling to their lies without trying to defend them.
Hunter, yes, he pretended to use influence over his father. I wish children of presidents didn't do that. Trump's children clearly did, to the tune of several millions of Saudi money. Several of them were hired into the White House. Hunter likely deserves to be slapped. However, the conservative prosecutor is using crimes almost never charged. It is a clear case of weaponization. Flaming at Hunter or defending him are equally not necessary, so I leave that issue alone. Meanwhile, the impeachment against his father has zero evidence. Zero. None. Nada.
In short, in order to defend the conservative position you have to run without evidence. Abuse the witch analogy? Is that all you have?
Hunter, yes, he pretended to use influence over his father. I wish children of presidents didn't do that. Trump's children clearly did, to the tune of several millions of Saudi money. Several of them were hired into the White House. Hunter likely deserves to be slapped. However, the conservative prosecutor is using crimes almost never charged. It is a clear case of weaponization. Flaming at Hunter or defending him are equally not necessary, so I leave that issue alone. Meanwhile, the impeachment against his father has zero evidence. Zero. None. Nada.
In short, in order to defend the conservative position you have to run without evidence. Abuse the witch analogy? Is that all you have?
Re: Here, witchy, witchy, witch...
Somehow the POTUS position has been weaponized against the country. Navigator is correct. They're all crooks. Denying that is a sign of the level of intelligence and honesty of a person.
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