Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

thomasglee wrote: ...
I agree and tend to think that the Gen-Xers will do something (get us in a global war?) to bail out our kids (I guess I'm a Gen-Xer by definition), but how do you think it will transpire? I see most Gen-Xers supporting issues they *think* will be good for their kids when in reality, it will not (due to the fact they'll have to pay for it later in life once they become the tax payer).

I really don't have a clue. I would have thought the illusion would have ended last year and for me it did. Maybe that's what it takes? A few folks at a time to reach a critical mass and finally the crises Xenakis has been talking about. Honestly I now know I wont personally profit from any foreknowledge but only hope to be prepared enough to save something for my family if and when it comes. I'm hoping it's just a depression like the one my grandparents pulled their families through and not the German experience. I've given up trying to spread the word myself since no one really wants to hear it even if it is to help them prepare. Most of the people I've tried to talk to about this think I'm trying to make a political commentary on Democrat rule and in that they are True Believers (unmoving). But I hear ostensibly Republican commentators like Charles Krauthammer tow the elite line that Benanke saved the economy too. I really don't see any possibility of true leadership anytime soon from the current political establishment and that is scary. When truth is so foreign to the political discourse, I see the real possibility for the ramblings of a fanatic being mistook for hyperbole as I image Germans misunderstood Hitler until it was too late.

xakzen wrote:I really don't have a clue. I would have thought the illusion would have ended last year and for me it did. Maybe that's what it takes? A few folks at a time to reach a critical mass and finally the crises Xenakis has been talking about. Honestly I now know I wont personally profit from any foreknowledge but only hope to be prepared enough to save something for my family if and when it comes. I'm hoping it's just a depression like the one my grandparents pulled their families through and not the German experience. I've given up trying to spread the word myself since no one really wants to hear it even if it is to help them prepare. Most of the people I've tried to talk to about this think I'm trying to make a political commentary on Democrat rule and in that they are True Believers (unmoving). But I hear ostensibly Republican commentators like Charles Krauthammer tow the elite line that Benanke saved the economy too. I really don't see any possibility of true leadership anytime soon from the current political establishment and that is scary. When truth is so foreign to the political discourse, I see the real possibility for the ramblings of a fanatic being mistook for hyperbole as I image Germans misunderstood Hitler until it was too late.

I totally agree with you. I keep hearing how the TP movement is just a bunch of right-wing GOP whackos, but I actually went to an event down in Texas and it's NOTHING like most describe it. It's main-stream Americans, much like me (and you from what I can tell) that are honestly worried about where this country is going. They are anti-elitist (DNC or GOP) and really disgusted with "politics as usual" in this country.

I too hope it's nothing more (nothing more... can't believe I'm saying that, but it could be worse) than a depression like that of the 30's, but I think it will end up being much worse.

Often I wonder if any any of the succession ramblings of many down in Texas, S. Carolina, etc. will ever grab any roots and have a real shot at happening? It won't help, I know, but it's interesting to watch. I too am just trying to "prepare", but it's hard! I'm in Vegas where our houses are worth about 1/3 of what they were.

thomasglee wrote: I totally agree with you. I keep hearing how the TP movement is just a bunch of right-wing GOP whackos, but I actually went to an event down in Texas and it's NOTHING like most describe it. It's main-stream Americans, much like me (and you from what I can tell) that are honestly worried about where this country is going. They are anti-elitist (DNC or GOP) and really disgusted with "politics as usual" in this country.
...

That has been my take on the Tea Party and I hope that John is right that it represents a new political alignment. At the same time I hear political pundits talking about how they plan to co-opt the movement as they have done to previous such movements like the Reform Party ten years ago. I fear without real political change we are more likely to see extreme reactions.

xakzen wrote:That has been my take on the Tea Party and I hope that John is right that it represents a new political alignment. At the same time I hear political pundits talking about how they plan to co-opt the movement as they have done to previous such movements like the Reform Party ten years ago. I fear without real political change we are more likely to see extreme reactions.

I'm hoping this movement is different. It (so far) seems to have a much wider and educated (school of hard-knocks educated as well as formally educated) following than past movements. Past movements were either those frustrated and not knowing what to do so just following anybody (Perot Movement) or those that wanted reform, but could not communicate effectively with the masses (Reform Movement). This time it appears as if those that want change but aren't sure how to achieve it are working hand in hand with those with the intelligence needed to lead such a movement. I hope that makes sense. I don't like elitists, but I also realize there are a lot of middle Americans that don't have the "experience" to foment change on their own. We need leadership and the TP seems to have it. I just pray they continue to push away from those that are trying to use the movement for their own gain (many GOP candidates). Here in Nevada we have a guy running on the "Tea Party" ticket, but he IS NOT endorsed by the TP and a matter-of-fact, they've asked him to STOP using the TP name in his campaign, but he won't.

xakzen wrote:

thomasglee wrote: I totally agree with you. I keep hearing how the TP movement is just a bunch of right-wing GOP whackos, but I actually went to an event down in Texas and it's NOTHING like most describe it. It's main-stream Americans, much like me (and you from what I can tell) that are honestly worried about where this country is going. They are anti-elitist (DNC or GOP) and really disgusted with "politics as usual" in this country.
...

That has been my take on the Tea Party and I hope that John is right that it represents a new political alignment. At the same time I hear political pundits talking about how they plan to co-opt the movement as they have done to previous such movements like the Reform Party ten years ago. I fear without real political change we are more likely to see extreme reactions.

During the 2008 election, I was a frequent visitor to Pro-Hillary Clinton sites. During the Primary they became utterly surprised at how nasty the Democrat Party was being. (I had fun saying things like "Well, now you know how Republicans have been treated by Democrats/Media when opposing Democrats how do you like it)

So many of them became utterly disgusted and disillusioned that the party they thought was so nice and compassionate turned into some Fascist brute force in its efforts to make Hillary lose and Obama win.

Of course if Hillary won , their Democrat party would be Mother Theresa.. but I wont quibble over what makes them see the light.

When the shocks of September 2008 came a lot of us Conservatives and Hillary Democrats came to realization where 30 years of Leftist social policy has led us.

I think part of the roots of the Tea Party are found here.... with the awakening of some Democrats to the corruption of the Democrat party, the deception of Obama, the destructiveness of the Left.

Other roots go to the Ronulians (Ron Paul fanatics).. and other roots go to the ordinary patriotic American.

I think you can say all of these groups are dispised by the Elites and the feeling is mutual.

VinceP1974 wrote:During the 2008 election, I was a frequent visitor to Pro-Hillary Clinton sites. During the Primary they became utterly surprised at how nasty the Democrat Party was being. (I had fun saying things like "Well, now you know how Republicans have been treated by Democrats/Media when opposing Democrats how do you like it)

So many of them became utterly disgusted and disillusioned that the party they thought was so nice and compassionate turned into some Fascist brute force in its efforts to make Hillary lose and Obama win.

Of course if Hillary won , their Democrat party would be Mother Theresa.. but I wont quibble over what makes them see the light.

When the shocks of September 2008 came a lot of us Conservatives and Hillary Democrats came to realization where 30 years of Leftist social policy has led us.

I think part of the roots of the Tea Party are found here.... with the awakening of some Democrats to the corruption of the Democrat party, the deception of Obama, the destructiveness of the Left.

Vince, I have allot of friends who are what I'd call Traditional Democrats al a Reagan Democrat or JFK Democrat, i.e. patriotic Americans with traditional values but an inherent distrust of big business. I cannot say I don't share some of their views on big business especially after what has transpired with the bailouts and continued bonuses. My only reservation is that I'm more worried about big gov every since Hillary tried to take over health care in the nineties. I agree with you and many others that the Tea Party crosses party lines and therein lies the possibility of real change within both parties and the ultimate political consensus after the regeneracy event John often talks about.

A majority (52%+) of T.E.A. Party supporters are not Republican. Of that majority about 15% are Democrat and 85% independent. As to socioeconomic and ethnic background, the T.E.A. Party roughly mirrors the nation as a whole.

Too big to fail? Ha! Ask the USSR about that one, oh, wait you can't. The bigger they are the harder they fall.

Boomers hated the G.I. Generation, berated the Silent Generation, abuse(d) Generation X, and ostracize(d) other Boomers (e.g. George W. Bush) who don't share their predominately anti-establishment values. Now Boomers hold power and want GenY (and their children, and everyone else) to pay for massive gov't entitlements for them as they age (any surprise at the humongous healthcare entitlement as Boomers begin to reach elderhood). Conflict? I'd say so.

Maybe this is not the right thread, but I'll give it a shot....

John, or anyone else with management experience: I have a question about managing Millennials, or maybe it applies to all generations.

My son is 41 and manages a small group of late-20s types, in a software/math environment. One of his direct reports recently made an error that made my son look bad, and he absolves himself of all responsibility. This seems to be a consistent pattern – “It’s not my fault, I just did my job, I don’t care what you think.” It’s as if he thinks nothing bad can happen to him. I should add I’ve seen this kind of behavior in my experience, and it didn’t seem to be generational, but almost random.

How should one deal with this kind of employee?

Shoshin,

I’ll give it a shot. I don’t think this is strictly generational, though it may relate to how they’ve been raised or taught in other employment experiences. I’ve seen this behavior out of boomers, gen-x’s and millenials. In fact, I’ve found it easier to mold millenials than boomers that have this attitude because they are less set in their ways.

For the past several years I’ve been working in an organization that is progressively moving from being traditional to self-empowered. My experience is mostly with employees that do not have college degrees - but the same principle applies. This employee wants to act traditional (boss tells me what to do and I do it) and your son wants him to act empowered. Traditional management is sometimes called Theory X and empowered is sometimes called Theory Y management. You can look up various sources on the internet that describe this. Here is one link (there are plenty more of this type of thing out there): http://www.netmba.com/mgmt/ob/motivation/mcgregor/
Another way of describing this employee is that he is disengaged. Here is some info on engagement. See page 4 of the pdf for a description of what type of management creates engaged employees.
http://www.gallup.com/consulting/121535 ... chure.aspx

Why does this employee act like that? Here are some potential reasons:
• Your son’s organization has “trained” this employee that the consequences of taking accountability are likely to be unfair or negative. An example of this could be where this person has shown accountability in the past and has had his manager took the credit.
• This employee has been rewarded for not making decisions or taking accountability in the past. (this could include working less hours, less stress etc.)
• The work objectives are unclear – the employee’s role is unclear.
• The expectations are beyond the employees ability.
• The worker is having outside issues that are keeping him from fully engaging in his job.
• The worker was raised to be pampered and have a sense of self entitlement. This is where I think you are assuming the problem comes from. It may be the case, but I wouldn’t assume it to be the most likely reason for this issue.

What do you do about it?
1. Decide if this employee is worth investing any time in. It will take time to turn this employee around. If not, part ways.
2. Review with the employee what the situation was – what the result was and why the result didn’t meet expectations. Ask the employee to explain why the result didn’t meet expectations. This discussion may lead to there being a very different set of expectations between manager and employee. The goal of this discussion is to get the employee to understand that there is an issue – it’s not necessarily to cast blame, but to get the employee and manager feel like they are playing for the same team and playing by the same rule book. The goal is to not focus on the past but assure that this doesn’t occur in the future.
3. Establish clear performance expectations with this employee and all employees. Couple this with routine performance metric reviews and performance feedback.
4. Spend more time listening than talking – more time understanding than lecturing.
5. Now – this doesn’t have to be one big group hug-fest – in fact, empowerment works best when strict expectations are put forward and people are held consistently and fairly accountable. The manager does need to view his role of someone who supports his employees and sets them up for success rather than someone who tells them what to do and how to do it.

I’m assuming this employee has a college degree – or least a high level of training. I expect more highly educated people to catch onto this principle of empowerment and accountability quickly. I do not have that expectation of factory workers with 20 years experience of working in a traditional non-empowered environment. If after coaching, this employee doesn’t demonstrate a desire to show some leadership – cut your losses –part ways. Make sure that the employee knows that showing leadership and accountability is part of his responsibilities and that he can’t continue to work there if he won’t.

Hope this helps,

Regards

Jack

Jack, thanks!....your analysis and suggestions sound useful and I will pass them on.