Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

No soldier fights for anything other than "trying to not be killed". Armies are arrayed (by their command structure) so that the individual soldiers have a binary choice: Stay alive by killing the enemy, or die through lack of support from their side.

You have never fought in a war. I have, and it's not like that for a lot of soldiers. Soldiers who just try to stay alive, are not really soldiers. They are conscripts fighting for an occupying army or they are cowards. I fought for my beliefs. I fought for my people. I defended my homeland from attack. My comrades were fighting to defend their families. No, I wasn't in the American army. I find it hard to believe that American soldiers just try to stay alive, unless they are immigrants who joined for a paycheck. That's very possible in America now. If most American soldiers are like you, America will lose the next war, and your family will suffer.(If you have any loved ones. You sound like you don't.)

I think you have read too many science fiction novels or watched movies made by people who have never fought in a war. I agree with the others on this board. You are a coward.

Guest wrote:

No soldier fights for anything other than "trying to not be killed". Armies are arrayed (by their command structure) so that the individual soldiers have a binary choice: Stay alive by killing the enemy, or die through lack of support from their side.

You have never fought in a war. I have, and it's not like that for a lot of soldiers. Soldiers who just try to stay alive, are not really soldiers. They are conscripts fighting for an occupying army or they are cowards. I fought for my beliefs. I fought for my people. I defended my homeland from attack. My comrades were fighting to defend their families. No, I wasn't in the American army. I find it hard to believe that American soldiers just try to stay alive, unless they are immigrants who joined for a paycheck. That's very possible in America now. If most American soldiers are like you, America will lose the next war, and your family will suffer.(If you have any loved ones. You sound like you don't.)

I think you have read too many science fiction novels or watched movies made by people who have never fought in a war. I agree with the others on this board. You are a coward.

Yes, it was an overstatement, and utterly untrue, that every soldier is SIMPLY a cog. But the command structure must be built such that an army "as a tool" is most reliable, and the way that is done is to assume that the MAIN motivation of the individual soldier is to stay alive by following orders.

In as much as individual soldiers are motivated by "better reasons" the army is that much better at doing what needs doing.

But the "war planners" (command) must be as conservative as possible, and practical as possible, so that they have a utilitarian operational base-line for the "tool" that is an army.

War planners put massive resources into training, armor, weapons, logistic support, food, comfort, connections to "the real world", and other things to motivate their soldiers to be more than simply cogs in a machine.

It's not constructive to over romanticize the "tool" that is the army, though. The command structure certainly doesn't.

Whether you think I'm a coward or not isn't relevant to anything we're doing here, so I'll leave that opinion wherever it make be.


Aloha! <shaka!>

FishbellykanakaDude wrote:

Guest wrote:

You have never fought in a war. I have, and it's not like that for a lot of soldiers. Soldiers who just try to stay alive, are not really soldiers. They are conscripts fighting for an occupying army or they are cowards. I fought for my beliefs. I fought for my people. I defended my homeland from attack. My comrades were fighting to defend their families. No, I wasn't in the American army. I find it hard to believe that American soldiers just try to stay alive, unless they are immigrants who joined for a paycheck. That's very possible in America now. If most American soldiers are like you, America will lose the next war, and your family will suffer.(If you have any loved ones. You sound like you don't.)

I think you have read too many science fiction novels or watched movies made by people who have never fought in a war. I agree with the others on this board. You are a coward.

Yes, it was an overstatement, and utterly untrue, that every soldier is SIMPLY a cog. But the command structure must be built such that an army "as a tool" is most reliable, and the way that is done is to assume that the MAIN motivation of the individual soldier is to stay alive by following orders.

In as much as individual soldiers are motivated by "better reasons" the army is that much better at doing what needs doing.

But the "war planners" (command) must be as conservative as possible, and practical as possible, so that they have a utilitarian operational base-line for the "tool" that is an army.

War planners put massive resources into training, armor, weapons, logistic support, food, comfort, connections to "the real world", and other things to motivate their soldiers to be more than simply cogs in a machine.

It's not constructive to over romanticize the "tool" that is the army, though. The command structure certainly doesn't.

Whether you think I'm a coward or not isn't relevant to anything we're doing here, so I'll leave that opinion wherever it make be.


Aloha! <shaka!>

You understand nothing. How many armies fighting in wars have massive resources? Most do not. My army had little money and our lives were very uncomfortable. How many armies offer extensive training? Most fighting armies don't have the time or enough the qualified instructors to train their fighters that effectively. America is an exception. You have zero understanding of soldiers and war. You try to analyze things without any information. You are worse than any foreign journalist I met during the war.

Guest wrote:<directed at Fishy>

You understand nothing. How many armies fighting in wars have massive resources? Most do not. My army had little money and our lives were very uncomfortable. How many armies offer extensive training? Most fighting armies don't have the time or enough the qualified instructors to train their fighters that effectively. America is an exception. You have zero understanding of soldiers and war. You try to analyze things without any information. You are worse than any foreign journalist I met during the war.

Armies try to have as many resources as possible.
Armies try to have as much money as possible (as money is a resource, that's rather obvious).
Armies try to train as well as they can.

Soldiers, and command structures, make do with what they've got.

What exactly are you arguing?