Financial topics

Investments, gold, currencies, surviving after a financial meltdown
Higgenbotham
Posts: 7985
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

Cool Breeze,

Below I've highlighted some experts that have recently made negative statements about Bitcoin that you could contact for a debate on national television. Go get 'em, my friend. I think getting on national television to debate some of these anti-Bitcoin folks gives you the best chance to "clear the air" and make a name for yourself as a sharp, nuanced investor.

Rush to bitcoin? Not so fast, say keepers of corporate coffers


Tesla Inc's $1.5 bn bitcoin bet saw it join business software firm MicroStrategy Inc and Twitter boss Jack Dorsey's payments company Square Inc in swapping some traditional cash reserves for the digital coin.

Rush to bitcoin? Not so fast, say keepers of corporate coffers

London/New York: When Elon Musk's Tesla became the biggest name to reveal it had added bitcoin to its coffers last month, many pundits were swift to call a corporate rush towards the booming cryptocurrency.

Yet there's unlikely to be a concerted crypto charge any time soon, say many finance executives and accountants loath to risk balance sheets and reputations on a highly volatile and unpredictable asset that confounds convention.

"When I did my treasury exams, the thing we were told as number one objective is to guarantee security and liquidity of the balance sheet," said Graham Robinson, a partner in international tax and treasury at PwC and adviser to the UK's Association for Corporate Treasurers.

"That is the fundamental problem with bitcoin, if those are the objectives for treasurers, then breaking them could get them in trouble."


Tesla Inc's $1.5 billion bitcoin bet saw it join business software firm MicroStrategy Inc and Twitter boss Jack Dorsey's payments company Square Inc in swapping some traditional cash reserves for the digital coin.

Proponents of the cryptocurrency see it as a hedge against inflation at a time of unprecedented government stimulus, a falling dollar and record-low interest rates that make attractive high-yielding assets hard to find.

While the moves have prompted more boardroom discussions though, headaches from bitcoin's volatility to accounting for it and storing it are likely to preclude a big wave of companies holding large amounts on balance sheets in the short term, according to over a dozen financial officers, board members and accountants interviewed by Reuters.

"It will take more than a small handful of disruptive companies investing in bitcoin to impact the narrative in boardrooms," said Raul Fernandez, an entrepreneur and investor who sits on the audit committee of the board of chipmaker Broadcom Inc as well as other companies.

"Larger global companies, I can't see those conversations happening right now."


Bitcoin's Intangible Tangle

One problem could lie in the devil of the accounting detail in a bookkeeping industry that, like many others, is still taking stock of the nature of cryptocurrencies.

The Financial Accounting Standards Board, which sets accounting standards for U.S. corporations, does not have guidance specific to the accounting for cryptocurrencies. However, consistent with discussions among a separate U.S. trade body, companies apply existing FASB guidance on the accounting for "intangible assets", which usually includes intellectual property, brand recognition or goodwill.

Under these rules, companies other than investment firms or broker-dealers cannot book gains in the value of holdings should the price of bitcoin rise - but must write down their investment as an impairment charge if it falls.

Furthermore, once a company writes down its holdings, it cannot record subsequent gains until it sells.

By contrast, companies periodically reflect the impact of fluctuations in traditional currencies in their financial statements.

The FASB has no immediate plans to review its treatment of bitcoin as the issue affects few of its constituents, according to a source familiar with the matter.

"I don't think it's the best accounting so far," said Robert Herz, a former FASB chairman. "I am hoping that if more mainstream companies get into bitcoin, the accounting standards board may revisit the accounting treatment."

Outside the United States, cryptocurrencies are usually treated as intangible assets too. But in contrast to guidance under the FASB rules, writedowns can be reversed in future years. In certain cases, companies can record bitcoin at market value.

Companies' Crypto Billions

Publicly listed companies together hold around $9 billion of bitcoin, data from the Bitcoin Treasuries website shows. Around 80% is held by Tesla and MicroStrategy, the latter with over $4.5 billion.

Square, which allows users to buy and sell bitcoin, said last month it had added an additional $170 million of the virtual coin to its coffers.

Of course, if the price of bitcoin rises, a company can always simply sell its holdings, thus realising some gains. Yet it is still a risky investment, given the cryptocurrency's record of wild swings.

In 2013, for example, bitcoin started at around $13 and spiked to over $1,000. In 2017, it went from about $1,000 to around $20,000. In early 2020, it sunk below $4,000. It fell more than 25% late last month only a week after hitting a record high above $58,000. It has now recovered part of its losses.

About 5% of chief financial officers (CFOs) and senior finance leaders said they planned to hold bitcoin on their balance sheets in 2021, a survey of 77 executives by U.S. research firm Gartner found last month.

Some 84% of respondents said they did not plan to ever hold it as a corporate asset, citing volatility as the top concern, followed by board risk aversion, slow adoption as a widespread method of payment and regulatory issues.

"I think for the most part you will find companies will avoid that sort of thing," said Jack McCullough, president of the CFO Leadership Council and a former CFO.

"CFOs are likely to be very conservative in managing corporate treasuries. They're happy sinking money into very safe places with low interest. Their job is to help grow the company through its operations, and the treasury needs to be safe and secure."


Why Put My Neck On The Line?

Cryptocurrency supporters, however, say the rationale for companies to buy bitcoin is clear, not least the decline of the dollar - the dominant reserve currency - which has fallen about 4.5% against a basket of major currencies in the past year.

"The value of the dollar over time is getting weaker and weaker," said Dave Sackett, CFO of ULVAC Technologies Inc, the U.S. subsidiary of a Japanese vacuum equipment maker, and an active cryptocurrency investor.

"Bitcoin flips the script on that."

Sackett pitched ULVAC executives on investing in bitcoin last April, suggesting they take a chance and then cash out with potential gains. They passed on the opportunity, he said.

Other potential headaches for executives include questions over how a company can safely hold a cryptocurrency, and how much it should disclose to shareholders about security precautions, said Tim Davis, principal in the financial and risk advisory practice at Deloitte & Touche, which advises firms on holding crypto on their balance sheets.

High-profile thefts from exchanges have highlighted problems over safely storing digital assets. The loss of passwords for digital wallets is also a risk. Offline or "cold" storage is widely seen as the best defence against hackers but there are few, if any, regulatory standards.

"Do you custody it yourself?" Davis said. "Do you have an exchange custody it? How much of it do you want to have in a hot wallet versus a cold wallet?"


Ultimately, experts added, the expansion into bitcoin by companies without existing ties to the cryptocurrency market may depend on the willingness of financial executives to take on risk.

"The general consensus among treasurers is that very few of them are going to follow this trend initially," said Naresh Aggarwal at the UK's Association for Corporate Treasurers.

"As a treasurer, if I am right and the price doubles, the company may sell its holding and make a profit. Whilst the company may be worth more, it won't be reflected in my compensation," he added.

"But if the price falls, I am pretty confident I will be fired. Why bother putting my neck on the line?"
https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... ers/729911
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.
aeden
Posts: 13972
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aeden »

"But if the price falls, I am pretty confident I will be fired. Why bother putting my neck on the line?"

He would be utterly drawn and quartered and put in cage to rot in the Cathedral.
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/10/ ... ti-church/
Their remains were left dangling from the tower for 50 years.
Higgenbotham
Posts: 7985
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

aeden wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:05 pm "But if the price falls, I am pretty confident I will be fired. Why bother putting my neck on the line?"

He would be utterly drawn and quartered and put in cage to rot in the Cathedral.
https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/10/ ... ti-church/
Their remains were left dangling from the tower for 50 years.
I guess I think too much like a CFO to be in Bitcoin.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.
aeden
Posts: 13972
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aeden »

We ate instant noodles that we luckily had packed in our bags.
No free lunch was provided.....
Swamp not happy and neither is taxpayers.
Higgenbotham
Posts: 7985
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

Cool Breeze,

Alibaba seems to be the leading innovator in blockchain and cryptocurrency. They have more blockchain patents than any other company.

I can't find anything recent from Jack Ma (he's number 25 on the Forbes real time list of billionaires) but he's another high profile person who's stated that Bitcoin is a bubble and won't deal with Bitcoin. I can't find any evidence that Alibaba accepts Bitcoin, even now. Perhaps you could try to arrange a debate with him. Anytime I've seen him on the business channels, he seems like a regular guy who might entertain such a thing. He was a teacher before starting Alibaba.

Also, maybe Max Keiser at RT would consider hosting a segment on this topic.

Good luck and go get 'em, my friend. I'll be sure to watch if you can arrange a high profile debate and surely I will learn something from it.


'Blockchain Is Not a Bubble, But Bitcoin Is,' Says Alibaba's Jack Ma

TANG SHIHUA

DATE: MAY 17 2018/ SOURCE: YICAI


(Yicai Global) May 17 -- Jack Ma, executive chairman of China's tech conglomerate Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. and a long-standing skeptic of one of the well-known cryptocurrencies, repeated his criticism of Bitcoin, but talked up the blockchain technology.

"Blockchain is not a bubble, but Bitcoin is," Ma reportedly said yesterday, according to online new site The Paper. "Bitcoin is only a small part of blockchain," Ma told the second World Intelligent Congress in Tianjin, North China.

"Blockchain is not a gold mine. It must be a solution to data privacy in the data age," Ma said. "It has to provide value before it can become wealth."

Alibaba has long studied blockchain and currently has the most blockchain patents in the world. "Alibaba will die if there is no blockchain," Ma reportedly said.

Alibaba's co-founder realized the importance of blockchain technology when he heard that it could solve the problem of data privacy security before he understood it, Ma said. Alibaba has been working on blockchain for years, but it has no intention to deal with Bitcoin, he repeated.
https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/blockc ... ba-jack-ma
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.
aeden
Posts: 13972
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aeden »

Jack had the 90 day treatment seminar plan with xi.com
A true believer now.
Ma bluntly derided Chinese regulators for being too risk averse,
stifling innovation, and clinging to a “pawnshop” mentality in overseeing China’s financial system.
Retribution was swift. Officials summoned Ma and senior executives.

Funny how they want to verify your identity here to buy a loaf of bread but no I.D required to vote.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTrETLzdDTM guess who it attracts
We will stick to two percent from three percent.

Cancel Culture is a Dress Rehearsal for Mass Murder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L0dPKpfHRA
Democrats are asleep and republicans are culpable.
Higgenbotham
Posts: 7985
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Higgenbotham »

aeden wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:28 pm Jack had the 90 day treatment seminar plan with xi.com
A true believer now.

Forgot about that and it's probably why nothing came up for 2021. For all we know, he may want to use it, but can't.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.
aeden
Posts: 13972
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aeden »

Ant got reorganized...
Americans are still missing the point on what is coming.

@12:08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtsXi6urbh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYzX3YZoMrs <--------------- truth

43000 lovely apes bought contracts they could not fill called metal
Last edited by aeden on Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
aeden
Posts: 13972
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aeden »

Once listed as a deadbeat,
Li and his wife will not only have to live plainly, but he will also have to step down as a senior Baidu executive.
China
Cool Breeze
Posts: 3040
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by Cool Breeze »

Higgenbotham wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:47 pm
Cool Breeze wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:51 am
Higgenbotham wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:46 am


Assuming you're talking to me, yes, I've been pretty much wrong about the stock market for the past 10 years. My track record on the stock market is horrible and the archives prove that. The only reason I'm still here is because I can day trade. That's a fact, and I've stated it numerous times.

You shouldn't worry about it. Maybe I was just early, or maybe the stock market bubble will continue to grow and I'll get blown out.
I'm just trying to figure out what your MO is, I have no problem with you trading or having certain opinions. The issue is that for some or your opinions (not all) you have absolutely no basis. The best example is your non-criticism of BTC and lack of understanding of it.

As a trader, what do you currently do, and what is your time frame generally?

I'm trying to figure out how you can get past this in a way that would be of some benefit to yourself.

So here's my idea. You say,

"The issue is that for some or your opinions (not all) you have absolutely no basis. The best example is your non-criticism of BTC and lack of understanding of it."

Here's what Bill Gates said about Bitcoin, as I quoted the other day:
Higgenbotham wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:41 am Bill Gates

"I don't own Bitcoin. I'm not short Bitcoin. So I've taken a neutral view."

"Bitcoin can go up and down based on the mania or whatever the views are and I don't have a way of predicting how that will progress."

"As an asset class, you’re not producing anything and so you shouldn’t expect it to go up. It’s kind of a pure ‘greater fool theory’ type of investment."

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/02/18/b ... on-it.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/07/bill-ga ... could.html
I'm assuming therefore that you have the same opinion of Gates' stance on Bitcoin as you do of mine.

Why not offer to debate Bill Gates or some other high profile person who is anti-Bitcoin? You could contact CNBC, Bloomberg, Fox Business, etc., and make the offer, while simultaneously contacting the Gates Foundation, Nouriel Roubini, and other respected high profile individuals who have made negative comments about Bitcoin.

If you could get on national television to "clear the air" on Bitcoin, your ship might come in, as opposed to spending time here debating someone like me who is essentially a nobody.

At the same time, you could give a plug to John.
If I had the opportunity, I definitely would. The problem is that, again, whatever you say to denigrate BTC you should apply to gold. Mining gold isn't "producing anything." It is an inferior version of BTC as an asset class for reasons I've stated for months now. It is scarcer, more easily divisible, you can't verify it as easily as bitcoin, you can't carry it at all as well as bitcoin, and you can't send it near instantly with ease. It shines as money far beyond gold, yet you don't apply these criticisms to gold. As a result, you are exposed when you denigrate BTC.

And for the 100th time, I don't have a problem with gold, it's just that (especially now) BTC is far superior to gold. Period. The cherry on top is that gold has been manipulated, confiscated, and all of the above; proof yet again that people who disparage bitcoin are frauds by their own making, since they don't and can't counter these realities.
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