Nuclear War

[Jubal Early]

Another big problem for NATO is that the size of the total ground force is so small that it cannot maintain a continuous front line. This situation has not been possible since the 1800s.

In WW1 (most famously on the Western Front) as well as in most European situations in WW2, the two sides maintained a solid "front line". You had to attack it to break through. This was very difficult (in WW1, nearly impossible).

Without a continuous front, the enemy can get through and attack into your rear areas. Disaster ensues.

Today, all the Russians have to do is bypass the few NATO brigades by not engaging them directly (just screen them with one of yours if you're the Russians), and they are into the NATO interior. Panic and disaster will ensue.

But wouldn't France of the UK nuke Russia to stop the total destruction of Western Europe? That seems reasonable enough.

Americans will never cower to an enemy; it goes against our ethos. If the migrant population gains power, they would. Cowering to the stronger is why the third world is third world. In Mexico, might makes right, but not in America. I honestly believe that Americans would choose nuclear war. I hope they would. Living like a beaten dog is worse than death.

When the Russians attacked Georgia in 2008, Russian troops communicated with cell phones and looted supermarkets for food. Russian logistics are very poor.

[spottybrowncow]

I almost cannot believe my thinking has come to this, but it occurred to me the other day that the democrat "master plan" may be to surrender to the Chinese after a pre-emptive attack such as that described by Navigator, telling us "it's for our own good." They could then use that as a basis to declare martial law, outlaw private weapons, outlaw dissenting views in any media, etc. They would welcome the Chinese sending forces to the U.S. to "assist with the transformation." I don't think it would work out as they imagine, but I've come to believe they're stupid enough and evil enough to try it.

Navigator, please tell me I'm crazy.

[El Cid M]

I almost cannot believe my thinking has come to this, but it occurred to me the other day that the democrat "master plan" may be to surrender to the Chinese after a pre-emptive attack such as that described by Navigator, telling us "it's for our own good." They could then use that as a basis to declare martial law, outlaw private weapons, outlaw dissenting views in any media, etc. They would welcome the Chinese sending forces to the U.S. to "assist with the transformation." I don't think it would work out as they imagine, but I've come to believe they're stupid enough and evil enough to try it.

Navigator, please tell me I'm crazy.

Sweet Jesus.

[John]

** 22-Dec-2021 World View: Surrenduring to the Chinese

> I almost cannot believe my thinking has come to this, but it
> occurred to me the other day that the democrat "master plan" may
> be to surrender to the Chinese after a pre-emptive attack such as
> that described by Navigator, telling us "it's for our own good."
> They could then use that as a basis to declare martial law, outlaw
> private weapons, outlaw dissenting views in any media, etc. They
> would welcome the Chinese sending forces to the U.S. to "assist
> with the transformation." I don't think it would work out as they
> imagine, but I've come to believe they're stupid enough and evil
> enough to try it.

> Navigator, please tell me I'm crazy.

I don't believe that this proposed scenario is possible. Before I'd
believe it possible, I'd want to be aware of a historical example
where something similar happened.

I've thought of two historical examples that might be relevant, but
they both contain significant differences that mean that they don't
apply as an analogy.

The most obvious example is Vichy France, which became collaborators
with the Nazis. However, in that case, the Nazis had already defeated
France militarily, so that example would not be similar unless the
Chinese militarily defeated the US.

Another example is JFK's sabotage of the Vietnam war in favor of Hanoi
by agreeing to the neutralization of Laos and by supporting the
military coup (and subsequent assassination) of Ngo Dinh Diem. This
is similar to the scenario you've proposed in that an American
administration collaborated with its Communist enemies at time of war,
but that was for a distant war.

So I agree that many in the Democrat leadership are almost completely
compromised by the Chinese -- just look at Eric Swalwell or Nancy
Pelosi or Hunter Biden -- but the Democrat leadership are only a small
percentage of the country, and nobody outside the leadership would
agree to surrender to the Chinese without a fight.

[El Cid M]

American leadership in 2021: Biden, Harris, and Pelosi.

The Russians and Chinese must be laughing their asses off.

[Jubal Early]

I almost cannot believe my thinking has come to this, but it occurred to me the other day that the democrat "master plan" may be to surrender to the Chinese after a pre-emptive attack such as that described by Navigator, telling us "it's for our own good." They could then use that as a basis to declare martial law, outlaw private weapons, outlaw dissenting views in any media, etc. They would welcome the Chinese sending forces to the U.S. to "assist with the transformation." I don't think it would work out as they imagine, but I've come to believe they're stupid enough and evil enough to try it.

Navigator, please tell me I'm crazy.

I think a variation of that will probably be attempted by the Biden admin. I can't imagine the American public going along with it because losing our Asian allies and the entire Asian market would mean our complete economic ruin. We would also lose the reserve currency status of the US dollar and our remaing allies.

I think the nukes would be used immediately if any US targets were subject to a nuclear attack.

I have really grown to hate the Chinese and the Russians. Both countries will half to be destroyed or the world will never have any peace.

[thomasglee]

I almost cannot believe my thinking has come to this, but it occurred to me the other day that the democrat "master plan" may be to surrender to the Chinese after a pre-emptive attack such as that described by Navigator, telling us "it's for our own good." They could then use that as a basis to declare martial law, outlaw private weapons, outlaw dissenting views in any media, etc. They would welcome the Chinese sending forces to the U.S. to "assist with the transformation." I don't think it would work out as they imagine, but I've come to believe they're stupid enough and evil enough to try it.

Navigator, please tell me I'm crazy.

I think a variation of that will probably be attempted by the Biden admin. I can't imagine the American public going along with it because losing our Asian allies and the entire Asian market would mean our complete economic ruin. We would also lose the reserve currency status of the US dollar and our remaing allies.

I think the nukes would be used immediately if any US targets were subject to a nuclear attack.

I have really grown to hate the Chinese and the Russians. Both countries will half to be destroyed or the world will never have any peace.

1. The American public will be too shell-shocked not to go along. The dems will placate their base and the rest of us will be the rebels they go after.

2. Our complete economic ruin is well underway.

3. We are going to lose the reserve currency status of the dollar as soon as they foist upon us a global CBDC.

4. Nukes will be used in flyover country. They won't have to use them on either coast.

[jmparret]

I almost cannot believe my thinking has come to this, but it occurred to me the other day that the democrat "master plan" may be to surrender to the Chinese after a pre-emptive attack such as that described by Navigator, telling us "it's for our own good." They could then use that as a basis to declare martial law, outlaw private weapons, outlaw dissenting views in any media, etc. They would welcome the Chinese sending forces to the U.S. to "assist with the transformation." I don't think it would work out as they imagine, but I've come to believe they're stupid enough and evil enough to try it.

Navigator, please tell me I'm crazy.

I think a variation of that will probably be attempted by the Biden admin. I can't imagine the American public going along with it because losing our Asian allies and the entire Asian market would mean our complete economic ruin. We would also lose the reserve currency status of the US dollar and our remaing allies.

I think the nukes would be used immediately if any US targets were subject to a nuclear attack.

I have really grown to hate the Chinese and the Russians. Both countries will half to be destroyed or the world will never have any peace.

1. The American public will be too shell-shocked not to go along. The dems will placate their base and the rest of us will be the rebels they go after.

2. Our complete economic ruin is well underway.

3. We are going to lose the reserve currency status of the dollar as soon as they foist upon us a global CBDC.

4. Nukes will be used in flyover country. They won't have to use them on either coast.

[jmparret]

Oh no, my words did not show up.

It will only take 7 or 8 nuclear bomb explosions to kill the world. Everyone will not die immediately, it could take a while but the cooling will finish everyone off.

Navigator has the web site or file for these predictions

Joe

[Jack Edwards]

jmparret said:

Oh no, my words did not show up.

It will only take 7 or 8 nuclear bomb e[plosions to kill the world. Everyone will not die immediately, it could take a while but the cooling will finish everyone off.

Navigator has the web site or file for these predictions

You may be referring to various prognostication from academics on what would happen if a nuclear war broke out between Pakistan and India. Some of their modeling assume 50 Hiroshima sized nukes were detonated (Hiroshima was a 15 kton warhead - pretty small).
Here are a couple of links:
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Nucle ... -2-Billion
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 21.1882772

There are many more if you just google pakistan india nuke model temperature

The general thought is that the ensuing fireball will suck in a lot of material and send a lot of particulate up very high in the atmosphere that would stay suspended for years and depress global temperatures. I've seen various estimates from 1C to 5C. That would reduce crop yields significantly which would lead to many deaths from starvation and could also damage part of the stratosphere and let a lot more UV light come through, which would also wreak havoc.

These are just models. They might be right. They might be wrong. I do a small amount of modeling for my job. I can tell you that it all comes down to the assumptions. If someone wants to get published, the more extravagant the claims the better (see all climate models and covid models which are continuously WRONG and yet keep being cited). So when I see mathematical models predicting doom and gloom, I take it with a grain of salt. All that being said a nuke on the other side of the world has the potential to affect the whole planet by putting particulate in the air. The question would be how much. Volcanoes do the same thing.

Take it all with a grain of salt. We don't really know what 7 or 8 average sized nukes would do, other than it would be bad.

regards,
Jack