Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

A feminist movement, or at least having women figuring prominently in various movements, has characterized past Awakenings prior to the one we last had; even the Reformation in Europe had women figuring prominently in that Awakening period. It is indeed correct that feminism or "woman power" didn't start with the mid-1960s. —Best regards, Marc

nope, it didn't. I admit, it's sad to see the kind of outright hatred of men that I see everywhere. I remember a conversation when women were talking of sexists. I forget how I got dragged into that, but I said that yeah, I knew my share of sexists. What I left unsaid was that most of them were women. Granted, I've known male sexists as well, but it seems to be primarily a female trait, at least today.

There are times when I can understand why Generation X hates boomers. the sexual revolution may seem like fun when you're a young woman (or man) or even for the middle-aged silent, but if you're a child, it's got to be an absolute nightmare.

Dear Trevor,

Trevor wrote: > I've read the story dozens of times, but in spite of that, I have
> never understood why there has been so much sympathy towards
> Andrea Yates. Not only did she kill her five children, but this
> was not a spur of the moment, blind rage decision; this was a
> planned, calculated murder. She even admitted as much, so i can't
> believe how so many would simply excuse her actions. It's not just
> feminists; people I know that I've spoken on this subject on have
> told me that they considered the husband "morally guilty". Are you
> kidding me?! She kills her children and he's somehow responsible?
> Being mentally ill doesn't mean that you don't know right from
> wrong.

It's the same reason why ordinary Germans supported the Holocaust.
Generational hatred is so great that it overwhelms reason and
common sense.

Trevor wrote: > I did some research and realized that in most cases, both partners
> were violent. One story that stands out in particular is Erin
> Pizzey. In the 1970's, she opened one of the first women's
> shelters in Britain, because at the time, while hitting a woman
> was considered despicable socially, in all but the worst of
> circles, it generally wasn't prosecuted criminally. After she
> opened it and began hearing the woman's stories, she realized that
> many of them were just as violent as their partners.

Thanks for this information. I found her book online -- not
surprisingly on a "men's rights" web site, even though she's a women's
advocate:

Prone to Violence by Erin Pizzey
http://www.menweb.org/pronevio.htm

Also, here's her 1999 article where she was viciously targeted by
feminists for saying that women are violent too:

Who’s Failing The Family? - By Erin Pizzey
http://www.fathersforlife.org/pizzey/failfamt.htm

Trevor wrote: > One personal story I have on this is when I walked towards and
> attempted to comfort a woman I knew. She was obviously upset,
> maybe crying, although I wasn't sure about that part. She was
> having relationship problems and I did my best to reassure her,
> one of the things I said was that she was an attractive
> woman. Afterwards, I left, not thinking anything of it.

> A couple days later, I was confronted by one of the people in
> charge. He informed me that she was accusing me of sexual
> harassment, saying that I was coming on to her. To say I was
> shocked at this would be an understatement; I was floored at this
> revelation. This was somebody I knew. Granted, we weren't real
> close, but I thought she knew me better than that.

> Based on how he was talking, the idea that this might be a
> misunderstanding never once crossed his mind. I was considered
> guilty and not even capable of trying to tell my side of this
> story; he had already made up his mind. Other people I knew and I
> thought were friends came to the same conclusion, all without even
> taking the time to hear me out. There were two things I learned
> that day. One is how easy it is to be accused, especially if you
> appear weird to people, which I do. The second is that trying to
> protest your innocence is utter futility.

When did this incident take place? This sounds like the "crazy woman
stories" that were common during the 1990s, but have been less
prevalent in recent years.

Trevor wrote: > Over the years I've realized just how common male hatred as
> become. This is not restricted to Boomers; it's in every single
> generation. I was taught in school a statistic that "One out of
> four men will commit rape", that it's normal to abuse women, that
> one of the main reasons is a belief in male superiority and male
> power. The pamphlets that I saw in college... well, the message
> was basically: "Be on your guard with every man."

These are like feminists saying "Jews are dirty crooks" in 1930s
Germany. These things become the "common wisdom" and then they're
widely believed.

Trevor wrote: > There are times when I can understand why Generation X hates
> boomers. the sexual revolution may seem like fun when you're a
> young woman (or man) or even for the middle-aged silent, but if
> you're a child, it's got to be an absolute nightmare.

This is absolutely right. The sexual revolution was great fun in the
1960s -- with free love, free sex, girls burning their bras, men
streaking. These were all forms of political protest, not to mention
a way of getting laid. But Higgie has already told us how streaking
particularly affected him and caused him to have a very negative
opinion of Boomers.

Most of the stories about fun and freedom in the 1960s were a myth.
Here's something I wrote on the 1967 Summer of Love, which was
supposed to be wonderful, but actually was disastrous for many
of the kids involved:

** Boomers commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Summer of Love.
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... b#e070612b


The pendulum has been swinging back towards greater modesty in
women:

** 'It's going to be the 1950s all over again'
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 11#e041011


** Victoria's Secret changes from 'too sexy' to 'ultra-feminine'
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 29#e080229


In the 1960s, it was all about "women's lib" and "men and women are
equal." Those political things are still around, but they've become
very tired and stale. As I recently wrote, I was very impressed by
Newt Gingrich stuck it to Juan Williams over the racist crap, and
stuck it to John King over the feminist crap.

Mainstream journalists have been missing the point (as usual)
on these incidents. The broader point has nothing to do with
Gingrich, who may or may not succeed in these kinds of actions.

When the Tea Party burst upon the scene, mainstream journalists
"blamed" it on CNBC's Rick Santelli, who made a rant one morning that
appeared to catch fire. As I pointed out at the time, what was
special about this situation was not that Santelli ranted about
something -- he rants about something every day -- but that something
had changed in the public to make them accept Santelli's rant.

The same kind of thing was true with Gingrich's remarks. The point is
not that Gingrich was clever (though he was). The point is that the
public is less willing to accept this kind of feminist crap,
indicating that the public is changing, irrespective of what happens
to Gingrich.

In a generational crisis era, gender roles become more conservative
and stereotypical. This is happening in America, but it's worth
pointing out that the same kinds of changes are occurring throughout
the world, because people return to the comforts of religion at times
of great anxiety. Thus, many Muslim women are returning to the
comfort of the hijab, and both Turkey and Egypt have voted to move in
the direction of more conservative Muslim precepts. And I've reported
on the web log recently that ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel are moving
in a similar direction, with women covering themselves from head to toe
with multiple layers of clothing.

John

Even if ordinary Germans didn't support it, per se, they willfully blinded themselves to what was going on. If it's a choice between closing your eyes and looking at something ugly in the mirror, many will choose the former course.

When did this incident take place? This sounds like the "crazy woman
stories" that were common during the 1990s, but have been less
prevalent in recent years.

The incident took place a little over four years ago. It was one of the things that made me realize how common this hatred was. Even many men believe this, most likely because they've heard it their entire lives and don't know how to think otherwise.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever read or heard of the book "Disclosure"? It deals with the topic of sexual harassment and false accusations. It was written in 1994, though i think it's still relevant today in terms of how many people still think.

I've managed to repeatedly horrify people, usually Boomers, when I mentioned to them that I don't see what was so wonderful about the sexual revolution. Yeah, it may have been liberating and fun, but it was also enormously destructive. We have an entire generation as a testament to that.

As for what was said about society moving in a different direction... 10-15 years ago, the kind of questions that Gingrich faced would have completely finished him. Now, however, the economy is what is on everyone's minds and if they think he can get it moving again (no one can until this runs its course) people will be willing to overlook his personal life, even if they don't forgive it.

John wrote:The situation is amplified by the fact that Jewish law provides for very careful handling of money and debt, meaning that the people in the Jewish community do well during financial crisis periods, while other communities struggle.

What are the details on this Jewish law that makes for careful handling of money and debt so that they do well during financial crisis periods? If there is a set of rules that make people do well during financial crisis periods I would like to understand them.

vincecate wrote:

John wrote:The situation is amplified by the fact that Jewish law provides for very careful handling of money and debt, meaning that the people in the Jewish community do well during financial crisis periods, while other communities struggle.

What are the details on this Jewish law that makes for careful handling of money and debt so that they do well during financial crisis periods? If there is a set of rules that make people do well during financial crisis periods I would like to understand them.

Largely, it boils down to looking for the best deals on both price and quality, saving money and/or provisions during times of prosperity (similar to the Mormon practice of maintaining a 1-year pantry), using your own prosperity to help the less fortunate within your community, etc. With few exceptions, a Jew is not permitted to charge interest on loans to others nor to accept anything as security on a loan that would deprive the debtor of the basic necessities of life (shelter, food, etc), although issuing non-interest loans is encouraged. Interestingly, some interpretations of Exodus and Deuteronomy permit certain types of loans to non-Jews that would be prohibited between Jews, which would almost certainly draw the ire of any neighborhood Nazi sympathizer.

The upshot is that there is a strong ethic within the Jewish community toward mutual assistance, savvy purchasing and investing, honest dealing, and planning for the future...all of which benefit the Jewish family and the Jewish community. Contrasted with the "live-for-today" financial attitudes of many gentile communities throughout history, Jewish prosperity cannot help but become conspicuous even though honestly acquired.

Jewish money habits and business ethics are actually quite complex when you really start digging, but a good starting point is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_business_ethics

In addition, Jews were generally well-educated, which helped them make a decent amount of money. In something like the Great Depression, when a certain group is better off than most, you're going to have a feeling that somehow they're either responsible for this or committing dishonest behavior. We're already seeing this with some of the protests now.

Having a close-knit community is the result of centuries of being scapegoats. If you've spent your entire life being despised or at least looked down upon, you make sure to form strong ties with your fellow Jews because few others would be willing to look out for you in hard times.

John wrote: But Higgie has already told us how streaking
particularly affected him and caused him to have a
very negative opinion of Boomers.

John

John,

Going further, by the time I came of age the sexual revolution had gotten very stale. Whereas you stated that very few Boomers took part in streaking as a percentage (true), all of my peers witnessed this. Most of my peer group in college acted like idiots and, while of course I blame them, I also realize they were negatively impacted by what they witnessed as children. To give an example, Freshman year of college, I was put into a triple room with a couple idiots. I switched rooms with another guy but sort of remained friends with the idiots. We had a habit of walking into each others rooms if the doors were unlocked. So I walked into his room one evening (my old room) and with the door unlocked he was going down on his girlfriend and I was, like, oh, hey, I just came by to talk about the Chemistry exam. He said something like, oh, yeah, I'll stop by when I'm done here. So about 45 mintues later he walked into my room with a stupid grin on his face and said now we can talk about that Chemistry test. At the time that was the environment I found myself in and it was only later that I began to put 2 and 2 together and try to figure out how the hell something like that became "normal" behavior to my peer group.

Onto the new roommates, one of them would get so drunk that I'd frequently wake up at night to hear him choking on his vomit, so that wasn't much improvement, but some.

This was at one of the best universities in the world. My peer group was decrepit but they had some help getting into that state at such an early age. I'm just hitting a couple highlights, but could go on and on.

For all the complaining about how immoral and loose things are today, it was far more so in the sexual revolution. I think a lot of it is just self-righteous culture warriors projecting it onto the next generation and holding them to a higher standard than they held themselves to. Besides, if they admit things are changing, they wouldn't be able to give their moralistic speeches.

What I described wasn't the whole student body of the U but, nonetheless, in my view, it is totally unacceptable that things like that could have happened at all in the university provided living quarters of such an institution. Drug use was rampant. The kid who I mentioned with regard to the Chemistry exam was smoking pot with his mother when she dropped him off. She passed the joint to all the other kids. I was the only kid who didn't partake. His mother would have been born in 1942. My parents were Silents. They could not have imagined such a thing but the interesting thing about Silents is they like to minimize communication and stick their heads in the sand, so I didn't tell them. That dynamic would be why none of this got solved. The Silents who were kids during the Depression and the War wanted to hear that "everything is fine" and that's it.

As far as what you said, those same people would be 50 years old now and have kids your age. Whereas my parents may have had visions of an orderly living arrangement similar to the way they had lived in college, the early X'er pigs I am describing are probably envisioning behavior more similar to their own or at least what they may have witnessed in college, which was not so good in my experience.

It was possible for me to find some good roommates in later years, but that first year was an absolute nightmare. Looking back on it, I'm surprised that I got through it with a pretty decent GPA and without getting sick.

I thought of something else I saw in the dorms but I don't want to gross you guys out.