Generational theory, international history and current events
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Cool Breeze wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:43 pmThat's what I thought, the delusion is that high that he thinks others share in his.Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:51 amI have trouble believing even you are that ignorant.Cool Breeze wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 am
I can't help it, your delusion is so strong it's funny, please tell me where Mr. Trump attempted to "steal" an election?
FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:52 pmHow about we don't get into this. We know this back and forth would be moderated but John is having a hard time. With respect to him just don't, both of you.Cool Breeze wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:43 pmThat's what I thought, the delusion is that high that he thinks others share in his.
Just watch what coverage comes out of the Taiwan visit tonight and wait to see if it's provocative enough to get the Dragon's fire. Domestic issues will be irrelevant quickly enough. Crisis is escalating quickly on many fronts
Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:44 pmI could easily see this shifted to its own thread. Feel free to create one. I called the Big Lie a big lie long ago, but didn’t push it because I know how skewed the Red media is. If that is where you pick up your information, anyone could be as ignorant as Cool Breeze. The question is how many of you are still that ignorant? How many still believe the Big LIe?FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:52 pm How about we don't get into this. We know this back and forth would be moderated but John is having a hard time. With respect to him just don't, both of you.
MSNBC recently did a Big Lie special based on evidence exposed by the Jan 6 committee, chasing back seven interwoven threads. One they list as perfectly legal, challenging the votes in the courts. Of course, Trump lost something like 59 of 60 cases. Trump’s lawyers could just not provide any evidence of the voter fraud they were claiming in public.
The other six threads ended up quite illegal. Pressuring the justice department to claim there was evidence of fraud when there was not. Fake electors. Pressuring states to ‘find’ votes. Pressuring Pence to count the fake electors rather than those accredited by the states. Use of the January 6 violence to delay congressional counting of the votes. Claiming state legislators should select electors, not the voters.
Lots of evidence for the Blue perspective, none for the Big Lie.
Of course a Red believer will ignore all that. Of course Red media will not cover it. But if you ignore what the other party is up to, limit your information to partisan sources, you will get blindsided.
Regarding the last sentence, this looks like another CCP distraction. They constantly threaten violence and never follow through. It will come to nothing as it always does. And yes, Russia and China are collapsing due to self inflicted wounds. The Crisis is is accelerating, but you have to open your eyes to see in which direction it is heading.FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:52 pmJust watch what coverage comes out of the Taiwan visit tonight and wait to see if it's provocative enough to get the Dragon's fire. Domestic issues will be irrelevant quickly enough. Crisis is escalating quickly on many fronts
FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:28 pmNo one needs respond.Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:44 pmI could easily see this shifted to its own thread. Feel free to create one. I called the Big Lie a big lie long ago, but didn’t push it because I know how skewed the Red media is. If that is where you pick up your information, anyone could be as ignorant as Cool Breeze. The question is how many of you are still that ignorant? How many still believe the Big LIe?FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:52 pm How about we don't get into this. We know this back and forth would be moderated but John is having a hard time. With respect to him just don't, both of you.
MSNBC recently did a Big Lie special based on evidence exposed by the Jan 6 committee, chasing back seven interwoven threads. One they list as perfectly legal, challenging the votes in the courts. Of course, Trump lost something like 59 of 60 cases. Trump’s lawyers could just not provide any evidence of the voter fraud they were claiming in public.
The other six threads ended up quite illegal. Pressuring the justice department to claim there was evidence of fraud when there was not. Fake electors. Pressuring states to ‘find’ votes. Pressuring Pence to count the fake electors rather than those accredited by the states. Use of the January 6 violence to delay congressional counting of the votes. Claiming state legislators should select electors, not the voters.
Lots of evidence for the Blue perspective, none for the Big Lie.
Of course a Red believer will ignore all that. Of course Red media will not cover it. But if you ignore what the other party is up to, limit your information to partisan sources, you will get blindsided.
Regarding the last sentence, this looks like another CCP distraction. They constantly threaten violence and never follow through. It will come to nothing as it always does. And yes, Russia and China are collapsing due to self inflicted wounds. The Crisis is is accelerating, but you have to open your eyes to see in which direction it is heading.FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:52 pmJust watch what coverage comes out of the Taiwan visit tonight and wait to see if it's provocative enough to get the Dragon's fire. Domestic issues will be irrelevant quickly enough. Crisis is escalating quickly on many fronts
We know what this is, seen it before. Responding only makes it worse.
And obviously he has no respect for John. Because we know their history.
Insert expletive for this type of ____. I prefer disrespectful self righteous Leftist prick.
Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:24 pm In many of the January 6 MSNBC news reports, they invite no doubt biased ‘legal experts’ in to supplement their news reporting. One of them recently outlined a legal doctrine I had never heard of before, ‘willful ignorance.’ If you are given more than reasonable cause to believe something is so, choosing to ignore this evidence and believe the opposite is treated under the law as the equivalent of lying. The primary example, of course, is the Big Lie. If Trump was told by the Attorney General, by the FBI, by several others, that the various conspiracy theories are wrong, in detail, after chasing them down, and Trump chose to believe and act otherwise, this is an example of willful ignorance. One consciously decides to believe something one should know isn’t so. This is legally treated as a lie. If one is given fully enough information to learn something, but decide it is to one’s advantage not to believe it, one is not given the benefit of the doubt.
It is getting to the point that even for an ordinary person, believing in the Big Lie is willful ignorance. Sure, most won’t have access to the Attorney General or the like, but it takes a conscious bias at this point to claim belief in the Lie.
JDav wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:19 pmBob, I always try to read what you write with an open mind, even though I don't understand a lot of it. I appreciate that we can at least disagree without name-calling and insults.Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:24 pm In many of the January 6 MSNBC news reports, they invite no doubt biased ‘legal experts’ in to supplement their news reporting. One of them recently outlined a legal doctrine I had never heard of before, ‘willful ignorance.’ If you are given more than reasonable cause to believe something is so, choosing to ignore this evidence and believe the opposite is treated under the law as the equivalent of lying. The primary example, of course, is the Big Lie. If Trump was told by the Attorney General, by the FBI, by several others, that the various conspiracy theories are wrong, in detail, after chasing them down, and Trump chose to believe and act otherwise, this is an example of willful ignorance. One consciously decides to believe something one should know isn’t so. This is legally treated as a lie. If one is given fully enough information to learn something, but decide it is to one’s advantage not to believe it, one is not given the benefit of the doubt.
It is getting to the point that even for an ordinary person, believing in the Big Lie is willful ignorance. Sure, most won’t have access to the Attorney General or the like, but it takes a conscious bias at this point to claim belief in the Lie.
I don't have time to respond in full, and probably won't for at least a week, but I think it would be constructive to learn more about each other - where we come from, where we get our news, etc., because clearly our belief systems are different, our sources are different, just about everything about us is different. Most of my family and friends from all over the US see things more or less as I do, though I do have some 1%-er family and friends in the Northeast (I grew up in the DC area) who believe as you do. If you are open-minded enough, and willing to explore other viewpoints, when I return I challenge you to a sharing of new stories that shape your worldview - I will read yours, you read mine, and we can question each other (not debate or ridicule) about the content, its veracity, and its implicit biases. To start with, I grew up near DC, live in rural North Carolina, and my main news sources are Breitbart, ZeroHedge, The Gateway Pundit (though they tend to be snarky and I often seek confirmation of what they report), and occasionally NPR. And, of course, postings from this site. I do own a business so I really don't have a whole lot of time to spend on much else.
FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:55 pmYou're a good guy. Thanks for extending a fig leaf. Reducing conflict is so very helpful now. I appreciate SP1's YouTube videosi if you know of it as a fellow Carolina person. I'm out West so N/S doesn't register much.JDav wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:19 pmBob, I always try to read what you write with an open mind, even though I don't understand a lot of it. I appreciate that we can at least disagree without name-calling and insults.Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:24 pm In many of the January 6 MSNBC news reports, they invite no doubt biased ‘legal experts’ in to supplement their news reporting. One of them recently outlined a legal doctrine I had never heard of before, ‘willful ignorance.’ If you are given more than reasonable cause to believe something is so, choosing to ignore this evidence and believe the opposite is treated under the law as the equivalent of lying. The primary example, of course, is the Big Lie. If Trump was told by the Attorney General, by the FBI, by several others, that the various conspiracy theories are wrong, in detail, after chasing them down, and Trump chose to believe and act otherwise, this is an example of willful ignorance. One consciously decides to believe something one should know isn’t so. This is legally treated as a lie. If one is given fully enough information to learn something, but decide it is to one’s advantage not to believe it, one is not given the benefit of the doubt.
It is getting to the point that even for an ordinary person, believing in the Big Lie is willful ignorance. Sure, most won’t have access to the Attorney General or the like, but it takes a conscious bias at this point to claim belief in the Lie.
I don't have time to respond in full, and probably won't for at least a week, but I think it would be constructive to learn more about each other - where we come from, where we get our news, etc., because clearly our belief systems are different, our sources are different, just about everything about us is different. Most of my family and friends from all over the US see things more or less as I do, though I do have some 1%-er family and friends in the Northeast (I grew up in the DC area) who believe as you do. If you are open-minded enough, and willing to explore other viewpoints, when I return I challenge you to a sharing of new stories that shape your worldview - I will read yours, you read mine, and we can question each other (not debate or ridicule) about the content, its veracity, and its implicit biases. To start with, I grew up near DC, live in rural North Carolina, and my main news sources are Breitbart, ZeroHedge, The Gateway Pundit (though they tend to be snarky and I often seek confirmation of what they report), and occasionally NPR. And, of course, postings from this site. I do own a business so I really don't have a whole lot of time to spend on much else.
Bob Butler wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:10 pmAppreciated and agreed. I assume those that resort to name calling and insults can’t respond with logic and fact. If they could, they would. I sort of smugly smile when I see someone throwing around insults as is see it as admitting he has lost the intellectual debate.JDav wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:19 pmBob, I always try to read what you write with an open mind, even though I don't understand a lot of it. I appreciate that we can at least disagree without name-calling and insults.
I am a retired software engineer who has lived and worked between Boston and Cape Cod. Retired implies I have time enough. Working on various defense communications jobs, I visited such places as Atlanta, Baltimore, Vandenberg, Silicon Valley, Colorado Springs and Montana, places where defense contractors and/or nukes congregate. Thus, I have encountered a little of other areas and perspectives.JDav wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:19 pmI don't have time to respond in full, and probably won't for at least a week, but I think it would be constructive to learn more about each other - where we come from, where we get our news, etc., because clearly our belief systems are different, our sources are different, just about everything about us is different. Most of my family and friends from all over the US see things more or less as I do, though I do have some 1%-er family and friends in the Northeast (I grew up in the DC area) who believe as you do. If you are open-minded enough, and willing to explore other viewpoints, when I return I challenge you to a sharing of new stories that shape your worldview - I will read yours, you read mine, and we can question each other (not debate or ridicule) about the content, its veracity, and its implicit biases. To start with, I grew up near DC, live in rural North Carolina, and my main news sources are Breitbart, ZeroHedge, The Gateway Pundit (though they tend to be snarky and I often seek confirmation of what they report), and occasionally NPR. And, of course, postings from this site. I do own a business so I really don't have a whole lot of time to spend on much else.
The oddity in my career is that I worked projects associated with all three elements of the strategic nuclear triad. With it came a drive to understand the old Soviet Union, and that I was working on a necessary and proper thing. People here talk about violence and nukes. In an abstract technical way, I lived it. I helped create the tools that made Armageddon possible.
In my philosophy and role playing hobbies I attempted to explore alien mind sets, playing characters who thought little like most people yet ways that made sense in an unusual way. The Russian mindset was the first of many. My favorite character saw the world through the lens of many worlds quantum physics. She was quite insane by most standards, a cockeyed optimist with perpetual amnesia, yet I sill think that she came to see the world in the correct way. Coda resulted in my going to a real world parapsychology conference. There may really be a small chance of viewing the most emotional possible alternate future.
Chasing weird perspectives is what I do. You never know where thinking alien will take you. John has collected a bunch of folk that from my perspective think alien. The Republican Rural Religious mind set is just another alien way of perceiving things. I’m doing my best so figure it out.
My news media are mostly main stream. Of late this has mostly been MSNBC. This includes their coverage of the January 6 committee, yielding a mostly pure, uncut and unedited live feed. No lack of interpretation afterwards.
I have little to no experience with the news sources you mentioned, with the exception of NPR and this site. I just have the feeling that if you have not followed much of the January 6 Committee, your view of the issues the deal with would be very uninformed.
Trump did list several of the conspiracy theories. Attorney General Barr and an FBI investigator who had chased them down were able to firmly refute them. Trump chose to ignore the input, to continue the Big Lie after being told there was no evidence for systematic voting fraud large enough to switch a precinct, let alone the nation. The January 6 committee has sworn testimony of several folks who were in the room. Shortly after the conversation, Barr resigned.
Currently I am wondering how many conservatives are still following the Big Lie and why. People who answer with insults and name calling don’t count. I wistfully dream that most Republicans are not like that. People who do not watch media that covers the January 6 committee are just ignorant. Is it possible to know that Trump is being willfully ignorant and still sincerely believe the Big Lie?
FullMoon is correct that no one needs to respond. Most aren’t. But I really do want to know from the understanding alien minds perspective what people believe. So far, the bias is towards insults and name calling.
FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:30 pm Bob,
What you haven't grasped in all this time is that you get emotional and insulting. You do it and don't realize it. I'm a West Coast liberal group and know this reality.
I stood up for you when you were to be banished. There's no sense in sticking to sides when we're all on the same side. But it's small things compared to what's coming and you don't seem to see. Better for you that way as it's horrific.
Regardless, cease with insults especially 'Red' whatever something partisan. And you do understand that when John comes back you'll be censored. Perhaps deleted if you push it and I will sponsor that action.
Bob Butler wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:01 amHmm. I consider Red and Blue to be equivalent terms, both equally descriptive, not insulting at all. If I say I lean Blue, this is not insulting at all? If some people read insult when none is intended, what can one do?FullMoon wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:30 pm Bob,
What you haven't grasped in all this time is that you get emotional and insulting. You do it and don't realize it. I'm a West Coast liberal group and know this reality.
I stood up for you when you were to be banished. There's no sense in sticking to sides when we're all on the same side. But it's small things compared to what's coming and you don't seem to see. Better for you that way as it's horrific.
Regardless, cease with insults especially 'Red' whatever something partisan. And you do understand that when John comes back you'll be censored. Perhaps deleted if you push it and I will sponsor that action.
John has traditionally censored by moving stuff between threads. He keep his own threads pure to follow his values without returning the courtesy, disrupting other’s threads. I figure this may return shortly, but am used to it. Until then, I am responding to comments made.
