Generational Dynamics World View News

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
El Cid M

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by El Cid M »

Guest wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:51 am
Guest wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:09 am Just think: we could see the biggest war in Europe since 1945 because too many Americans were schooled by their media to think Trump was the Antichrist and Biden was a better choice.
It's a salutary lesson that should warn us in Britain to treat with extreme prejudice the hate-driven media witch-hunt against our (admittedly flawed) prime minister.
Millions - I would even say billions - of people worldwide were well aware that Joe Biden was a catastrophe waiting to happen, and a good number of those watched in horror as the Deep State establishment managed to engineer his election, after years of manufactured riots about 'orange man bad' and other insane wokery. It is simply not credible to suggest that Biden legitimately won more votes than any President in history, it's impossible, the man can barely string a sentence together and his VP is singularly unpopular - another complete fix installing her.

Highest postal turnout ever.
Figures even Belarus would have been embarrassed by
This was a deplatform one candidate election.
Biden is the sum total of all the bad karma piled high by the Left over the last few decades. Okay, you now have everything you have ever wanted.

Are you happy now?
Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

The media own this one.
Xeraphim1

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Xeraphim1 »

Cool Breeze wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:29 pm
DaKardii wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:16 pm But its central priority is uniting the Orthodox Christian world.
Which would be a great thing, because it's the only check against the current world order run by people who hate christians.
The thing is that Russia really isn't a religious country. Orthodox Christianity is more of a cultural identity than than religious one. Maybe 6% of the population is actively religious while the rest associate it with some kind of "Russianness". I don't agree that Russia wants to unite the Orthodox faith.
Xeraphim1

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Xeraphim1 »

DaKardii wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:45 pm EXAMPLES OF GOOD, BAD, AND TROLL ARGUMENTS (AGAINST GOING TO WAR)

GOOD ARGUMENTS
=======================
-It's not in our national interests, ***identifies what our national interests are***.
-We can't win, ***identifies reasons why***.
-Intervention will only further destabilize the region.
-We need to be courting Russia as an ally against China and radical Islam. Putin may be an SOB, but he can be our SOB.
-Russia has nukes. I don't want to die.
-The only reason the US government wants war is because of Heartland Theory. We need to stop being obsessed with maintaining a unipolar world.

BAD/POSSIBLE TROLL ARGUMENTS
=======================
-It's not in our national interests, ***fails to identify what our national interests are***.
-We can't win, ***fails to identify a reason why***.
-Ukraine is the aggressor.
-Any argument which invokes ethnic or religious hatred.
-Any argument which invokes "globalism" or "globohomo."
-Any argument which invokes "Eurasian integration."

OBVIOUS TROLL ARGUMENTS
=======================
-Crimea was Russian before the Soviet government gave it to Ukraine; Russia must correct this historic wrong!
-Ukraine's government is literally run by Nazis!
-Any argument which invokes other, irrelevant territorial disputes (examples: Kashmir, Kosovo, Israel-Palestine, Taiwan, etc.).
-Any argument which is rooted in non-sequiturs (example: invoking the UK's domestic politics when addressing American forum users).
I don't agree with all of your arguments, but I mostly agree with these definitions.
Cool Breeze
Posts: 3040
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Cool Breeze »

Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:01 pm
Cool Breeze wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:29 pm
DaKardii wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:16 pm But its central priority is uniting the Orthodox Christian world.
Which would be a great thing, because it's the only check against the current world order run by people who hate christians.
The thing is that Russia really isn't a religious country. Orthodox Christianity is more of a cultural identity than than religious one. Maybe 6% of the population is actively religious while the rest associate it with some kind of "Russianness". I don't agree that Russia wants to unite the Orthodox faith.
As we saw with the scamdemic, most people don't actually have principles, so I don't totally disagree. The issue is that the Russians likely won't turn on you as they at least respect other people who are devoted believers and who love God and freedom, unlike the religious death cult/fearmongers whose religion is tribal politics and not about truth or freedom.
John
Posts: 11501
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
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Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by John »

** 26-Jan-2022 World View: Russia's and China's plans for Ukraine and Taiwan

Image
  • Map of Ukraine


The discussion in this thread has been whether the US "wants" a war in
Ukraine. The discussion is irrelevant, since it's entirely up to
Putin whether there's a war in Ukraine. There is currently no
foreseeable path that would put American soldiers into Ukraine.

The US has two choices. One choice is to do nothing, which would
result in accusations of appeasement, as in 1939. The other choice is
to try to take steps that would convince Putin not to invade. The
result appears to have been a compromise, where the US sends a few
weapons to Ukraine and threatens sanctions, steps which have symbolic
value but which won't affect Putin's decision. Another possibility is
that the US and Nato will make concessions to Russia in response to
Putin's demands.

Putin continues to pour troops and equipment into western Russia,
Belarus and Crimea, and there are reports of a growing number
infiltrated into the Donbas. According to analysts, the deployments
into Belarus will be completed in mid-February. Ukraine will then be
surrounded on three sides by Russian troops, and many analysts believe
that the commitment will be too deep for Putin to back off.

Let's make an assumption -- that both Putin and Xi have made decisions
to invade Ukraine and Taiwan, respectively, this year. This
assumption is far from proven, but it's a real possibility. It's not
likely that Xi and Putin would plan joint military action, but because
of their marriage of convenience, they might plan joint timing.
Neither Putin nor Xi would invade during the Beijing Olympics (Feb
4-20), though Putin might invade during the Paralympics (Mar 4-13).
The ground is currently hard in Ukraine, which is good for tanks, but
it will turn to mud with the Spring rains.

For Putin, a good date would be Feb 23, which is "Defender of the
Fatherland Day," celebrating the founding of the Red Army. Xi could
also launch a Taiwan attack at about the same time, coordinating the
timeline with Putin to present the US with a two-front war.

As I've said before, I think that a possible scenario is that Putin
won't attempt a full-scale invasion, which could go on for years, but
instead would take Biden's suggestion of a "limited incursion." In
2014, Russia invaded and occupied Donbas, and invaded and annexed
Crimea. In 2018, Russia completed a bridge over the Kerch Strait,
controlling access to the Sea of Azov. Today, a "limited incursion"
would be an invasion of the seaports Mariupol and Berdyansk, in order
to create a land bridge from Russia to Crimea.

The question that's still unfolding is the role that Biden's
incompetence and cognitive problems are playing in whatever occurs.
Biden took a series of energy-related decisions that have been
disastrous for the US -- canceling the Keystone XL pipeline, canceling
oil leases, approving Russia's Nord Stream 2 Pipeline -- have given an
enormous amount of power to Putin over Europe. Both Putin and Xi are
carefully analyzing the Afghanistan catastrophe and reaching
conclusions about it.

And then there's the open southern border. Millions of illegal
immigrants from many countries are pouring into the country, aided by
the administration working together with paid migrant smugglers and
sex traffickers. In addition, tons of fentanyl and meth are pouring
into the country via drug smugglers. This is driven by China, which
sees this as an opportunity to get revenge for the 1840s Opium Wars,
and also to infiltrate the country with Chinese military cells.
Xeraphim1

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Xeraphim1 »

Trevor wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:11 am I don't think Putin can afford to back down. If he does, he's going to look weak back home. Even if we did make some form of agreement to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO, I doubt it'll matter. At most, it might postpone invasion for a year or two, allowing him to ensure Europe wouldn't do anything about it. I have my doubts about even punishing sanctions deterring him, since China's currently still open to Russian markets.

Nobody wants to get involved here, because after all, why should we care about Ukraine? Our humiliation in Afghanistan and increasing "woke" politics has pretty well shattered the high opinion of our military that existed even a few years ago. Nevertheless, I'd still rate our capabilities above that of Russia.

I suspect Biden is in desperate need of a win. Polls have him at the low 40s or even 30s, worse than Trump with a much friendlier media. The price of food has skyrocketed, the price of gas has skyrocketed, Afghanistan is now controlled by the Taliban, Covid continues to ravage the country, crime is through the roof, and all but the safest Democrats are distancing themselves from him. Problem is, this is more likely to turn into another humiliation for him.

We have two unpleasant choices before us. Either we send troops to Europe, possibly getting involved in a war with a major power, or we make symbolic actions that only encourages Putin to go further. If I was Xi Jinping, I'd be looking at the U.S. and wonder: would they really do anything to protect Taiwan? Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea has to be asking the same thing.
Not sure that I agree. Russia has a lot to lose and little to gain. The very best possibility is some kind of political agreement (most likely of a dubious nature) that lets Putin declare victory and send all the troops back to their barracks.

The second best possibility is to invade and annex the Donbas region and proclaim themselves victors by rescuing ethnic Russians from Ukrainian tyranny. The problem is that Ukraine isn't in as bad a shape as it was eight years ago. While the Ukrainian military isn't a match for Russia, it is much more capable than it was just a few years ago and there is a definite Ukrainian identity that was previously lacking. Trying for any big gains would involve the loss of thousands or tens of thousands of Russian soldiers. Yes, Ukraine would lose more, but defensive losses are more sustainable than offensive. I've not seen any indications that the Russian people are clamoring for war despite the best efforts of the Russian government and having body bags returning home would stoke unrest and possibly anger in a population

it can reasonably be argued that the invasion of Crimea has cost Russia a great deal while gaining it little in practical terms. The sanctions since 2014 have depressed Russia's economic growth by a few percentage points and relegated it even more to little more than an exporter of natural resources. FDI has been minimal and Russia really needs that to upgrade a tech base that charitably is 10-20 years behind the rest of Europe. A second invasion of Ukraine would lead to even harsher sanctions including an export ban on just about everything using US technology. Would that be worth the acquisition of some 4 million Russianized Ukrainians with some barely operational and antiquated smokestack industries? In economic terms it would be a catastrophe.

The real problem is that Putin and his cronies are looking at the consequences for themselves rather than Russia as a whole and I don't think they're thinking clearly. But, every day an invasion is delayed gives Ukraine more time to prepare and Western nations more time to send additional weapons and supplies to Ukraine. Waiting hurts Russia much more than it helps. My guess is that this will blow over in another month or so. Keep in mind that keeping troops in the field is expensive and Russia doesn't exactly have a lot of extra resources to spend.
Xeraphim1

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Xeraphim1 »

Cool Breeze wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:19 pm
Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:01 pm
Cool Breeze wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:29 pm

Which would be a great thing, because it's the only check against the current world order run by people who hate christians.
The thing is that Russia really isn't a religious country. Orthodox Christianity is more of a cultural identity than than religious one. Maybe 6% of the population is actively religious while the rest associate it with some kind of "Russianness". I don't agree that Russia wants to unite the Orthodox faith.
As we saw with the scamdemic, most people don't actually have principles, so I don't totally disagree. The issue is that the Russians likely won't turn on you as they at least respect other people who are devoted believers and who love God and freedom, unlike the religious death cult/fearmongers whose religion is tribal politics and not about truth or freedom.
Not so sure. Russians have a long history of xenophobia and paranoia; possibly justified since Russia tends to get hammered a lot. A good percentage of Russians are athiests and even a decent number of the Orthodox don't really believe in God. I don't think they're going to support foreign Christian out of some kind of solidarity.
Navigator
Posts: 1029
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Navigator »

John wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:22 pm
As I've said before, I think that a possible scenario is that Putin
won't attempt a full-scale invasion, which could go on for years, but
instead would take Biden's suggestion of a "limited incursion." In
2014, Russia invaded and occupied Donbas, and invaded and annexed
Crimea. In 2018, Russia completed a bridge over the Kerch Strait,
controlling access to the Sea of Azov. Today, a "limited incursion"
would be an invasion of the seaports Mariupol and Berdyansk, in order
to create a land bridge from Russia to Crimea.
I have seen another good option coming from UK reporting, that Putin intends to install his own puppet as the "true" Ukrainian president.

This would solve the problem of Russian "occupation" and just have ethnic Russians in the Ukraine run and police everything.

The Russians would recognize this puppet and their supporting regime, and provide them with the muscle they need to enforce their rule. This way Putin could even say that Ukraine was still an "independent" nation.

Given the rather long and somewhat successful (albeit not permanently successful) example of the post WW2 communist eastern European regimes (with which Putin has lots of experience, BTW) this is probably his ultimate strategy for the Ukraine.
Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

Cool Breeze wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:19 pm
Xeraphim1 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:01 pm
Cool Breeze wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:29 pm

Which would be a great thing, because it's the only check against the current world order run by people who hate christians.
The thing is that Russia really isn't a religious country. Orthodox Christianity is more of a cultural identity than than religious one. Maybe 6% of the population is actively religious while the rest associate it with some kind of "Russianness". I don't agree that Russia wants to unite the Orthodox faith.
As we saw with the scamdemic, most people don't actually have principles, so I don't totally disagree. The issue is that the Russians likely won't turn on you as they at least respect other people who are devoted believers and who love God and freedom, unlike the religious death cult/fearmongers whose religion is tribal politics and not about truth or freedom.
The Russians had no problem destroying and dismembering Orthodox Christian Georgia.
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