Re: Financial topics
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:34 am
Generational theory, international history and current events
https://www.gdxforum.com/forum/
This would explain why a turn might be more appropriate now rather than on October 22 or 23. Disasters and stock market turns often occur on or very near April 19 and October 19. The 1987 crash bottomed on October 19. This is also true on a monthly basis. Over the past 7 years, many of the major stock market turns from a high have occurred on the 18th or 19th of the month. Some examples: July 19, 2007; May 19, 2008; January 19, 2010; February 18, 2011; October 18, 2012; September 19, 2013.Higgenbotham wrote:April 19 (which is 6 months opposite October 19 on the calendar -the date of the 1987 crash) is a date in history that is known for bad things happening. Some recent examples are:
April 19, 1993 Waco Branch Dividian
April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City
April 20, 1999 Columbine
April 20, 2010 BP Oil Spill
For some reason, when bad things are about to happen, I've observed that the masses will engage in similar patterns of behavior, and the stock market is the best record of this. It may be that this time the stock market will be the thing in which the tragedy occurs.
I think cycles are probably valid, but the inaccuracy or misinterpretation is more attributable to those who are applying them.
Something else I mentioned awhile back was the 83.5 years between the major bubbles (Tulip and South Sea). The obvious answer is to go forward 83.5 years from September 3, 1929. The less obvious answer is that the market sold off, then made a lower peak on October 11, 1929 and 83.5 years from that day is April 11, 2013. If that were to line up with other cycles (it does), it might work, whereas March 3, 2013 doesn't line up with anything else that I am aware of. If the Fed is pushing this thing for all it's worth, the less obvious answers might be the right ones.
In keeping with this discussion from 2011, the Fed has driven the expected October 2013 low to its polar opposite. That would be another reason to consider looking for a high in this time frame.Higgenbotham wrote:You're right, I didn't explain the methodology used to determine what I referred to as being "on time". This is simply a stock market pattern I discovered that nobody else so far as I know has.Lily wrote:I'm not certain that I fully understand your methodology, Higgenbotham, so perhaps I can try to restate this and you can correct me if I'm mangling your argument?
First, you're saying that the 1929 high and subsequent crash were in some sense 'on time' or natural, whereas the lows in 1932 and 1938 were caused by government policy, especially that of the central bank? That sounds right to me, and that is what Milton Friedman would say. What I'm not sure I understand is the connection between the September 2007 high and the 1929 high.
If there were a 'natural' point for our markets to crash this cycle, might that have been in 2001 rather than 2008 when it did happen?
To see it, divide a piece of paper into 4 columns. Label the columns LOW, HIGH, LOW, LOW.
In the first column, write: 10-1857, 10-1896, 10-1935, 10-1974.
In the second column: 10-1890, 10-1929, 10-1968, 10-2007.
In the third column: 10-1896, 10-1935, 10-1974, 10-2013.
In the fourth column: 10-1935, 10-1974, 10-2013, 10-2052.
After you have done this, you will see that heading down the columns, all those dates are 39 years apart and heading across the columns those dates are 33, 6, and 39 years apart. All of the dates in the columns correspond to a major stock market high or low except for 1935 and 1968. Had the Fed not botched up and created two lows in 1932 and 1938 (about equidistant from 1935) instead of one in 1935, the 1968 high probably would have come in "on time" and there was an attempt to make a high in 1968 that came pretty close to being "the" high for that time period. Several of these highs and lows hit precisely to the month (10-1857, 10-1974 and 10-2007) while others are only one or two months off from the actual (8-1896, 9-1929) and one is 5 months off (5-1890).
I'm guessing that the natural point for our markets to crash was in 2009. The 2008 "crash" had to do with real estate and I believe created a first wave down in the stock market which liquidated the excess out due to the bursting of the real estate bubble. But believe it or not, I haven't given a great deal of thought as to whether there was a time at which the stock market "should" have crashed, so I would need to think about that some more.
http://cycle-trader.com/BULL'S-EYE MR. COWAN! HIS 2013+ FORECAST SHOWS ONCE AGAIN WHY HE'S THE UNDISPUTED CYCLE ANALYSIS KING!
Mr. Cowan's 2013+ forecast listed 3 dates as critical in 2013, Mid-May, Mid-August, and October. The indices have made triple tops on these dates!
When a bear market happens investors always filter the news negatively no matter and that would include anything the Fed does. Back in late 2008 and early 2009, with the Fed pouring money in, the market collapsed every time Geithner and Bernanke opened their mouths.weak stream wrote:There is indeed the possibility of a panic at any time now as so many potential triggers from the Euro mess to Japan sliding to oblivion to a panic in China. I don't think, however, we are that close to the "Big Kahuna" that will bring us to Dow 3000 or thereabouts yet. The reason is that most market participants believe wholeheartedly in the Federal Reserve's ability to stop any slide. When this faith begins to fade, all hell is going to break loose.
Following the Fed to 50% Flops
John P. Hussman, Ph.D.
All rights reserved and actively enforced.
Reprint Policy
One of the most strongly held beliefs of investors here is the notion that it is inappropriate to “Fight the Fed” – reflecting the view that Federal Reserve easing is sufficient to keep stocks not only elevated, but rising. What’s baffling about this is that the last two 50% market declines – both the 2001-2002 plunge and the 2008-2009 plunge – occurred in environments of aggressive, persistent Federal Reserve easing.
It’s certainly true that favorable monetary conditions are helpful for stocks, on average. But that average hides a lot of sins.
Strikingly, the maximum drawdown of the S&P 500, confined to periods of favorable monetary conditions since 1940, would have been a 55% loss. This compares with a 33% loss during unfavorable monetary conditions. This is worth repeating – favorable monetary conditions were associated with far deeper drawdowns.
http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc130603.htmDitto for the 2008-2009 market plunge. Persistent monetary easing did nothing to prevent a 55% collapse in the S&P 500.
John wrote:It's caused by a sustained deleveraging that
results from a change in underlying fundamentals.
Hussman wrote:Hands-down, the worst-case scenario is a market that comes off of such overextended conditions and then breaks trend-support in the context of an economic downturn. That’s not something we observe at present, but it is something to keep in mind, as I doubt that we will avoid that sequence over the completion of the current market cycle.
The stock market should already be down by some amount from the top when this happens. My guess is a flash crash type of incident will have already occurred to take it down from the top before the big one hits.I think that we're going to see eventually a series of bankruptcies. And I think that the rise in the interest rate is probably the fatal sign which is going to ignite a derivatives crisis that is going to bring down the derivatives system. There is something like a quadrillion of derivatives and most of them are interest rate derivatives. The spiking of the interest rate in the United States may set that off.
--Hugo Salinas Price (transcribed from the link above)