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10-Nov-15 World View -- Catalonia parliament votes to secede from Spain

Israel's Netanyahu promises Obama to implement two-state solution

** 10-Nov-15 World View -- Catalonia parliament votes to secede from Spain
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e151110



Contents:
Catalonia parliament votes to secede from Spain
Israel's Netanyahu promises Obama to implement two-state solution


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Spain, Catalonia, Mariano Rajoy,
Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu

Netanyahu wrote:"I want to make clear that we have not given up our hope for peace. We will never give up our hope for peace.

I remain committed to a vision of two states for two peoples, a demilitarized Palestinian state that recognizes the Jewish state. I don’t think that anyone should doubt Israel’s determination to protect itself and defend itself against terror and destruction. But neither should anyone doubt Israel’s willingness to make peace with any of its neighbors who want to make peace with it." -

There is this guy named Corey that goes around asking Palestinians and Israelis questions and posting video to youtube. I find it fascinating to see what the Palestinians really think. The Israelis are mostly what I would expect.

Things I think from the interviews:
1) Most Palestinians would not accept a 2 state solution, they think they should get all of Palestine and Israelis should "go back where
they came from". They want a 1 state solution, which no Israelis want. At this point most Israelis were born in Israel and have
at least one ancestor that was in Israel before 1948 and other ancestors from a variety of places they could not legally move to.
2) Palestinians will never recognize a "Jewish state".
3) Palestinians will not agree to demilitarize, they think "resistance" is their duty and that if they are painful enough for long enough the Jews
will leave. When people die trying to stab an Israeli they are viewed as heroes.
4) Palestinians really hate the Jews with a passion, while Israelis don't have strong feelings about Palestinians.
Palestinians are taught by parents and schools to hate Israelis and think that Israeli parents and schools
teach young Israelis to hate them, but this is not the case.
5) Israelis are mostly secular (atheist and not religious) but if there are any atheist Palestinians they hide it out of reasonable fear.
6) It is the Israeli religious minority that wants to settle the West Bank. Most Israelis and all Palestinians think this is a bad thing.
7) Israelis really do want peace.
8) Most Palestinians do not accept that Jews lived in Palestine 2000 years ago or that the Temple Mount was built by Jews.
9) The Palestinians have disorganized guys with rocks and kitchen knifes against about the most technologically advanced and well trained military.
The Arab-Israelis are mostly far more Israeli than Palestinian in their loyalty at this point. The West Bank is split up into a bunch of different
Palestinian parts, and Gaza separate from these, so sort of pre-divided as far as military view. There is no real military contest.
10) Palestinians think the Israelis are like the Nazis in committing genocide against Palestinians. The Israelis clearly have the power to
wipe out the Palestinians and have not done so in many years.
11) Israelis understand that dying from terrorist attack is not in the top 10 causes of death. I am not
sure the Palestinians get this. Second URL below.
12) It seems most Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank have never met and talked with an Israeli civilian, just Israeli soldiers at checkpoints
13) The Palestinians think the holocaust was far smaller numbers than the rest of the world thinks.
14) The Palestinians think they are being punished by having their land taken away for crimes committed by Hitler and not them.
Again and again they will say, "this is our land", meaning all of Palestine.
15) Many Palestinians still have the keys from their great grandparent's house inside current Israel. They still feel the house belongs to them
and dream of moving back to it. The house has probably been destroyed and something else built over it.

I am sure Netanyahu understands the above topics far better than I do but expect Obama does not.

My musings on the future. In hind sight each of the deals the Palestinians have been offered, from 1948 on, would have resulted in them being better off now if they had accepted the deal and stayed peaceful. I think the Palestinians should take the deal from Netanyahu and stop holding out for some better deal that will never come but don't think there is any chance they will at this time. There is just too much hate in the Palestinians. My guess is that over the coming decades the Israelis will settle more and more of the West Bank and the Palestinians in the West Bank will become more and more Israeli, like the Palestinians inside Israel have. Gaza will stay like it is for a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/user/coreygilshuster/videos
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/news ... s-of-death

And I think the Palestinians should insist on a one state solution-just like South Africa: one man, one vote. The statelet offered by Bibi is unviable, and everyone knows it. I think the Israelis should have cut a just peace back in 1993, but they didn't. So now they will be hit with WMDs. End of story.

Guest wrote:And I think the Palestinians should insist on a one state solution-just like South Africa: one man, one vote. The statelet offered by Bibi is unviable, and everyone knows it. I think the Israelis should have cut a just peace back in 1993, but they didn't. So now they will be hit with WMDs. End of story.

If none of the Israelis agree to a one state solution, how will it happen? Who would make it happen?

Imagine some Gazan's get a nuke from Pakistan and get it past security and blow it up someplace inside Israel, what do you think will happen next? That will not be the end of the story. Do you think then all the Israelis would leave Palestine?

No. Because who would take the Israelis? How many would even be left alive after nukes, chemical, and bio attacks?

Do you really think people involved in suicide bombing and attacking gun toting jews with kitchen knives care about retaliation? The situation is unraveling quickly

Guest wrote:No. Because who would take the Israelis? How many would even be left alive after nukes, chemical, and bio attacks?

Do you really think people involved in suicide bombing and attacking gun toting jews with kitchen knives care about retaliation? The situation is unraveling quickly

Note that the Israelis have bomb shelters and so probably would survive nukes, chemical, and bio attacks better than the very nearby Palestinians. Something enough to wipe out Israelis would wipe out the Palestinians too.

It looks like 14 Israelis have been killed by terrorism in 2015. This is hardly "unraveling quickly". Again, the risk of death by car accident, heart attack, or stroke are much higher. I have relatives who had planned to visit Israel in the last two months and went ahead and did so even though there are stabbings and rock throwings.

Palestinians dream of wiping out the Israelis, which you seem to also, but they are not coming anywhere close in terms of military capability. It would be absolutely amazing if they could steal one nuke and get it back inside Israel and set if off. Can't even imagine them stealing and transporting enough to really flatten Israel without getting stopped first. You know if 50 nukes were stolen from Pakistan that the Israelis would up security at the border if not just close it down completely, right? There would be sats, drones, spies, etc trying to locate the transport. Rewards for information, etc. I guess you can dream, but it has not helped the Palestinians to dream of wiping out Israel over the last 67 years. Each time they try they end up worse off. If they did get a nuke I think somehow they would probably be worse off after the dust settled. If they had accepted the 1948 UN deal and worked on growing their own country they really should have been far better off by now and had more land.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... .html#2015

Below is a link to a discussion with an Arab Israeli Christian who is an Israeli diplomat. I think he is worth listening to if you are interested in this topic. One thing he said that struck me was that to this day the Arab countries won't put Israel on their maps. I joked in the comments that this explains why they always lose in wars against Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmKPeu1SVR4

He is saying that this latest violence has much less support than the first or second intifada. He thinks it is a "swan song". Up till now the Palestinians had the view that Israel was like a colonial power and they would drive off the foreign oppression. They might be realizing that Israelis are not going to leave.

You're the one who dreams of wiping out the Palestinians. That's all you post about-and the fantasy that Israel could survive it. It strains credulity to believe the things you have been discussing could be carried out without an equally horrendous backlash. vince, you live in a fantasy world. It's unhealthy.

To vincecate:
Very interesting 15 points! But what I still don't get is why don't all the Jews scattered about the world and whose ancestors all originate from Israel go and settle there for good ?

guest wrote:To vincecate:
Very interesting 15 points! But what I still don't get is why don't all the Jews scattered about the world and whose ancestors all originate from Israel go and settle there for good ?

Thanks.

Many Jews are still moving back every year. Looks to me like the ones who are happy where they are stay put but the ones that are in a place going bad often move to Israel. So when France starts getting too anti-semetic the Jews there move to Israel faster.

One other interesting point. The word "Palestinian" really derives from the Jewish/Hebrew word for "Invader". So the Palestinians are calling themselves by the Jewish word for invader and claiming the land is all theirs and the Jews are the invaders. I suspect that most of the Hebrew speaking Jews are well aware of this but hardly any Palestinians are. Perhaps one of the largest inside jokes anywhere. It was really with Arafat they went from thinking of and calling themselves Arabs to calling themselves Palestinians. Arafat was born and raised in Egypt. A large fraction of the other Palestinians were really from other places too.