Generational Dynamics Forum - New Site

For those of us that are gen-Xers (like me), the next generation is our beloved children, and right in line to become the next Silent generation that is damaged by an economic collapse. For the Boomers, these are your grandchildren, no less precious. We all have strong incentives to protect and nurture them despite economic hardship. What can we do (if anything) to mitigate the psychologic damage the next 10 years could bring? I don't want my children to be frightened conformists; I want them to be strong and vibrant and not afraid to pursue their dreams, just like their parents and grandparents.
Some thoughts:
-Some depression era parents were able to treat all the changes as a great adventure "gee honey, we're moving to california, isn't this great!"; can we do the same? Should we?
-My children and their friends constantly beg for new toys- should we as parents deny them, or go ahead and indulge them now that toy prices are falling?
-I tell my 7 year old daughter that I can't always get her the toys she wants, but I'll always be able to feed and clothe her and keep her in the only home she remembers. Is this a dangerous promise to make?

There is also that great Boomer anthem "You can't always get what you want...."

(In fact, in one science fiction novel, there was a culture in which this had become a Calvinist hymn, which was extremely apropos.)

By making it both a practical and a moral issue, you may be playing into the Silent urge to be fair to everyone.

Just my $0.02

Dear Ainsley,

ainsleyclare wrote: > For those of us that are gen-Xers (like me), the next generation
> is our beloved children, and right in line to become the next
> Silent generation that is damaged by an economic collapse. For the
> Boomers, these are your grandchildren, no less precious. We all
> have strong incentives to protect and nurture them despite
> economic hardship. What can we do (if anything) to mitigate the
> psychologic damage the next 10 years could bring? I don't want my
> children to be frightened conformists; I want them to be strong
> and vibrant and not afraid to pursue their dreams, just like their
> parents and grandparents.

It's true that kids who grow up through a generational crisis era
suffer a kind of generational child abuse -- thanks to being
surrounded by friends who lose their parents or become homeless. You
can't "protect" a kid from caring about their friends, or about
caring about his own family.

But Artists (Silents) aren't "frightened conformists." They simply
have a different set of values, values that are almost
incomprehensible to people in other generations.

Let's take "women's issues" as an example. Women in the 1950s are
frequently described as female automata, who, according to feminists,
were under the oppressive thumbs of their husbands who kept them
barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and who beat and raped them
regularly when they got out of line.

The feminist picture of women in the 1950s is valuable to them for
fund-raising, but it bears little relation to reality.

Girls and young women who grew up in the 1930s and 1940s were
surrounded by homelessness, bankruptcy and starvation. Their fathers
and brothers were tortured and killed on the Bataan Death March, and
were slaughtered like fish in a barrel on the beaches of Normandy.
They were forced to take "Rosie the Riveter" jobs that they hated,
when they missed staying home with their kids.

To these women, a house with a white picket fence where they could
stay at home and take care of the kids was heaven on earth. They
didn't stay at home because they were "frightened conformists." They
stayed at home because they were happy there, probably much happier
than their daughters, who were raised in a society at peace, but with
few important values.

Your kids are going to grow up with different values than Americans
have today. This is not a bad thing, even though they may not be
values that you easily recognize.

ainsleyclare wrote: > -Some depression era parents were able to treat all the changes as
> a great adventure "gee honey, we're moving to california, isn't
> this great!"; can we do the same? Should we?

Perhaps I'm not the best person to answer this question because I
have little patience with this kind of pretense. If you read any of
my web log articles, you'll probably see me being contemptuous of
some official who's pretending that everything is OK.

Kids handle this kind of bad news much better than their parents do.
Talking about the world today as a "great adventure" may make you
feel better, but your kids will know that you're lying, and will
become more anxious as a result.

ainsleyclare wrote: > -My children and their friends constantly beg for new toys- should
> we as parents deny them, or go ahead and indulge them now that toy
> prices are falling?

Once again, you should ask yourself whether giving your kids more
toys is more about making you happy than making your kids happy.

With today's economy, there are are more and more kids who aren't
even getting a decent meal every day, let alone getting toys. Ask
your kids if they would mind donating a portion of their toy money to
a local charity that gives toys to kids who have no toys whatsoever.

ainsleyclare wrote: > -I tell my 7 year old daughter that I can't always get her the
> toys she wants, but I'll always be able to feed and clothe her and
> keep her in the only home she remembers. Is this a dangerous
> promise to make?

I think you should always tell your kids the truth. You don't have
to tell them the whole truth right away, but everything you tell them
should be the truth.

Sincerely,

John

I've been thinking about this post a lot, but my thoughts are still muddled.

One thing I know, the only promise to my kids that I'm sure I can fulfill is that of loving them. I hope I will always be able to feed and clothe them, but I don't know that I will be able to. I will certainly try my very best.

As far as the great adventure thing, it is different to lie to your children then to look at crises as being opportunities. When I was a small child my parents' lease wasn't renewed at a time when housing prices were very high in the area. My dad drove school bus and usually worked pumping septic tanks in the summer, but since we didn't have a place to live, he took the summer and we drove out to New York and up through New England, camping along the way. My dad loved to travel and so this was his opportunity to do it. Right now I love being home with the kids and my husband wishes he could be at home, too. But we have been reluctant to give up a regular paycheck for a full homesteading life. It is true that when things get bad enough, we could become full-time homesteaders by default. But it would be an opportunity for us to try something we normally wouldn't. I don't think that's being Pollyannish.

Later in my life the 80s recession hit our town hard, many jobs were lost, many people moved away. My dad lost his job, too. That was when my mom went back to work. She didn't want to either. I don't think the 80s were exactly as feminists want to portray it anymore than the 50s were--most of the mothers that I knew worked because they had to, not because they were getting great fulfillment from a career. I didn't know any supermoms. And even in high school when everyone wanted me to pursue a great career I knew I wanted to have a family and live in a quiet place and enjoy my children. So I pursued my dream, but I don't care if other people have different dreams. My kids can dream whatever they want and I'll help them do that. (As long as they don't want to hurt people, then they're on their own.)

It is very difficult to sit and watch as we all reap the consequences of our actions. It is even more painful to see people struggle to change it. It is like watching a dying person pretending that just a little more of the right kind of medicine will make it all better. I think our kids will be able to accept that they have to prioritize, that they can't have it all, and they will make better decisions because of it.

Julie

Just use the standard system i.e set example, rewards and punishments, etc. Just use your common sense, really.

Slow down the pressure that was on the Millies, live more simply than the Boomers did, make sure they are exposed only to wholesome things and those in serious moderation, stay home with them while they are little and volunteer at their school when they start, and insist on simple, easily understood rules enforced with absolutely no nonsense, with well understood exceptions that the kids still cannot game. And teaching them their future lies in the things they can do, especially do for themselves - cook, sew, ride a bicycle - as well as in their character, manners, and morals.

Where do I get this from? Watching how my grandchildren are being reared. It brings back vivid memories.

To the OP:

I'm from Generation Y, so I'm in the next generation...you know the one you skipped over when you exclaimed that your kids were in the next generation?

Look my parents were broke and literally told me that we were too poor to afford toys. (and the 90s had some pretty amazing toys for the record) I never got to go to Disney world, I didn't even own a Christmas tree until I was 10 years old, never owned that dog, I never had that big house in the country with a giant yard. It's not that big of a deal, I'm perfectly content with my childhood. I understood it and didn't beg for fancy toys and things, I in fact felt it was my obligation to never beg for toys because it was a fact of life that they couldn't afford them. I learned how to create my own fun, reading, watching films, music, drawing, making up games with my friends, that's where I came from. I'm not ashamed of that and I actually think it worked in my favor.

That's what you tell your kid, you be honest and straight with them. Tell your kids that you can't afford to buy them toys, sure they'll feel a bit sad about their position, but they'll deal with it.

Also as the first poster said, have THEM donate their toys and money to kids who don't even have the money to buy sufficient clothes and food. They could sure use a little more happiness than your kid, don't you think?

ainsleyclare wrote:For those of us that are gen-Xers (like me), the next generation is our beloved children, and right in line to become the next Silent generation that is damaged by an economic collapse. For the Boomers, these are your grandchildren, no less precious. We all have strong incentives to protect and nurture them despite economic hardship. What can we do (if anything) to mitigate the psychologic damage the next 10 years could bring? I don't want my children to be frightened conformists; I want them to be strong and vibrant and not afraid to pursue their dreams, just like their parents and grandparents.
Some thoughts:
-Some depression era parents were able to treat all the changes as a great adventure "gee honey, we're moving to california, isn't this great!"; can we do the same? Should we?

Everything in life has the potential to be turned around & used for good purpose, and it's a lesson that should not be lost. It shouldn't be lying, but in a more comprehensive picture of reality, nurturing a creative spirit. A hallmark of that generation is their ability to retain their sense of humor (and humility) in the face of adversity. It is a Balm of Gilead in and of itself allowing cooler heads to prevail.

ainsleyclare wrote: -My children and their friends constantly beg for new toys- should we as parents deny them, or go ahead and indulge them now that toy prices are falling?

Encourage them at every opportunity to make their own toys. Hand over raw materials (stuff that would ordinarily be in the trash, like cardboard boxes, newspaper etc) and direct their energy into constructive behavior/ problem solving skill building. If you haven't already, pull the plug on the stream of advertisements bombarding them. My nephew was raised without TV on vcr kids tapes until he was about 12. His computer time was spent mostly playing jump start x grade programs, so it had inherent educational value to it even if it lacked interpersonal skill development. There's just too much garbage on open channels surely as you wouldn't want children surfing the net without restrictions.

ainsleyclare wrote: -I tell my 7 year old daughter that I can't always get her the toys she wants, but I'll always be able to feed and clothe her and keep her in the only home she remembers. Is this a dangerous promise to make?

I'd say yes it is dangerous because you're presuming omnipotence. Mom is always going to love her daughter no matter what the world does is a guarantee you can deliver to eternity. The rest... lightning strikes the house burning it to the ground is beyond your control.

I'd add one more thing in answer to the original thread header-- try not to ever punish character.

John wrote: But Artists (Silents) aren't "frightened conformists." They simply
have a different set of values, values that are almost
incomprehensible to people in other generations.

Let's take "women's issues" as an example. Women in the 1950s are
frequently described as female automata, who, according to feminists,
were under the oppressive thumbs of their husbands who kept them
barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and who beat and raped them
regularly when they got out of line.

The feminist picture of women in the 1950s is valuable to them for
fund-raising, but it bears little relation to reality.

Girls and young women who grew up in the 1930s and 1940s were
surrounded by homelessness, bankruptcy and starvation. Their fathers
and brothers were tortured and killed on the Bataan Death March, and
were slaughtered like fish in a barrel on the beaches of Normandy.
They were forced to take "Rosie the Riveter" jobs that they hated,
when they missed staying home with their kids.

To these women, a house with a white picket fence where they could
stay at home and take care of the kids was heaven on earth. They
didn't stay at home because they were "frightened conformists." They
stayed at home because they were happy there, probably much happier
than their daughters, who were raised in a society at peace, but with
few important values...
Sincerely,

John

Your hate on feminists is an excuse to continue being an irresponsible male. Once again you're peddling your own desperation for a brand of social engineering that suits a bizarre world view. Your disney kumbaya fantasy does not apply to the majority of citizens who cannot afford the luxury of being a SAHM and struggle to make a living in an economic system that runs contrary to life itself. You know little about women, and even less about yourself or the fellow countrymen you're all too happy to indict in kangaroo courts. Stand in your own boots and quit the career of horse thieving. No one stole the self respect you failed to earn. Pan handle for sympathy at your own peril because the therapy due you isn't sweetness and light.

Great great great grandma would have tossed your mattress in the barn refusing you into the house until you learned how to act, and great great great grandpa would lift his eyes from his work and smile wide as she did. Great grandma did work in sweatshops to keep bread on the table for her 6 children, and that crushing economic reality applicable to an entire generation was not the failure of great grandpa. Great grandma on the other side of the family, a widow in early 1900's, got it done (children faithfully raised in the tradition of their father) anyhow, with no thanks to social conservative pimps barring women from gainful employment/ education all but forcing them into vice peddling in underground economies.

FACT: There is no better family insurance policy than economic competence/ viability of all members. To peddle contrived dependence is a cheapening of the institution of marriage to legalized prostitution and a welfare queen/ aspiring merry widow life plan. It cannot help but dishonor both genders. If your self worth is derived by diminishing the worth of the women in your life, you aren't anything more than a vampire.

Sarah Palin