Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions

An alternate home for the community from the legacy Fourth Turning Forum
Bob Butler
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions

Post by Bob Butler »

Cool Breeze wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:26 pm
Your premises are all false, please stop making stuff up. Of course, that's why you come to bad conclusions. You're obsessed, and you are wrong about it all. You progressives create all of these problems, and you aren't even honest about the problems. So ho hum, another 3 meaningless paragraphs from Bob. As for me, this'll be my last reply, since it's not worth it.
Are you denying there were loyalists in revolutionary times? That Hitler was a problem to America? Are you pretending Trump didn't create a fantasy version of reality? To a great degree in order to keep up their values, conservatives have to deny history, stuff that clearly happened. I have long stated that people will deny stuff that requires them to rethink their worldview. The above is as good an example as any.

JCP

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by JCP »

Guest wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:57 pm
John wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:47 pm
** 08-Jan-2021 World View: Biden vs Trump supporters

I just watched Biden's press conference. I couldn't believe my ears.
This so-called unifier has massive vitriolic hatred for Trump and
Trump supporters oozing out of his pores. He's obsessed with this
hatred. And this has nothing to do with Trump, because he has always
called Tea Partiers "teabaggers" and "terrorists."

The Democrats are desperate to totally destroy Trump once and for
all, but Trump supporters interviewed on CNN and MSNBC say that
Trump is the only politician that speaks to them. There are 75
million of those people. Even if the Democrats bury Trump
in the ground, those 75 million Trump supporters will not forget
Biden's vitriolic hatred.

Biden appears to be purposely inciting violence, probably because he
believes that he will benefit politically from violence. Expect more
violence between Trump supporters and antifa-blm. It's going to be
bloody. (But to answer the next question: No, it won't be a civil
war.)
Biden compared Senator Hawley to Joseph Goebbels.

Senator Hawley's statement in response:
"President-elect Biden has just compared me and another Republican Senator to Nazis. You read that correctly. Think about that for a moment. Let it sink in. Because I raised questions in the format prescribed by the laws of the United States about the way elections were conducted in the state of Pennsylvania, just as Democrats did about other states in 2001, 2005, and 2017, he is calling me a Nazi. This is undignified, immature, and intemperate behavior from the President-elect. It is utterly shameful. He should act like a dignified adult and retract these sick comments. And every Democrat member of congress should be asked to disavow these disgusting comments."
And the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. The gulags are about to open; or maybe the leftists will just skip that and kill people in the streets. Either way, now you know.

Bob Butler
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Bob Butler »

The big issue is whether Trump was telling the truth that there was big time voting fraud. If so, you can almost forgive a lot of stuff, even up to armed insurrection. If not…. Lying for his own financial gain and to set groundwork for his post presidency position is hard to forgive. At the moment, with no evidence of massive fraud, with lawyers declining to speak of it as lying to a judge can get you disbarred, with Fox repudiating its reporting as soon as a defamation lawsuit became a possibility, with Trump’s habit of using lies, I am dubious.

That doesn’t mean I’m ready to start throwing the Nazi label around.

As with the BLM protests, the right to protest should be there, but violations of law should result in arrest and prosecution.

(Armed resurrection? Aren't spell checkers wonderful? :D }

Guest

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Guest »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:05 am
The big issue is whether Trump was telling the truth that there was big time voting fraud. If so, you can almost forgive a lot of stuff, even up to armed insurrection. If not…. Lying for his own financial gain and to set groundwork for his post presidency position is hard to forgive. At the moment, with no evidence of massive fraud, with lawyers declining to speak of it as lying to a judge can get you disbarred, with Fox repudiating its reporting as soon as a defamation lawsuit became a possibility, with Trump’s habit of using lies, I am dubious.

That doesn’t mean I’m ready to start throwing the Nazi label around.

As with the BLM protests, the right to protest should be there, but violations of law should result in arrest and prosecution.

(Armed resurrection? Aren't spell checkers wonderful? :D }
China will be victorious with people like you running the country.

Bob Butler
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Bob Butler »

Guest wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:17 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:05 am
The big issue is whether Trump was telling the truth that there was big time voting fraud. If so, you can almost forgive a lot of stuff, even up to armed insurrection. If not…. Lying for his own financial gain and to set groundwork for his post presidency position is hard to forgive. At the moment, with no evidence of massive fraud, with lawyers declining to speak of it as lying to a judge can get you disbarred, with Fox repudiating its reporting as soon as a defamation lawsuit became a possibility, with Trump’s habit of using lies, I am dubious.

That doesn’t mean I’m ready to start throwing the Nazi label around.

As with the BLM protests, the right to protest should be there, but violations of law should result in arrest and prosecution.

(Armed resurrection? Aren't spell checkers wonderful? :D }
China will be victorious with people like you running the country.
How am I giving an advantage to China? Because I am for truth? Because I don't throw the Nazi label around? Because I advocate rule of law? Because I use a spell checker?

JCP

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by JCP »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:25 am
Guest wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:17 am
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:05 am
The big issue is whether Trump was telling the truth that there was big time voting fraud. If so, you can almost forgive a lot of stuff, even up to armed insurrection. If not…. Lying for his own financial gain and to set groundwork for his post presidency position is hard to forgive. At the moment, with no evidence of massive fraud, with lawyers declining to speak of it as lying to a judge can get you disbarred, with Fox repudiating its reporting as soon as a defamation lawsuit became a possibility, with Trump’s habit of using lies, I am dubious.

That doesn’t mean I’m ready to start throwing the Nazi label around.

As with the BLM protests, the right to protest should be there, but violations of law should result in arrest and prosecution.

(Armed resurrection? Aren't spell checkers wonderful? :D }
China will be victorious with people like you running the country.
How am I giving an advantage to China? Because I am for truth? Because I don't throw the Nazi label around? Because I advocate rule of law? Because I use a spell checker?
Your version of the truth; rule of law when it suits your purposes; you throw all kinds of labels around, you hypocrite, and spell check doesn't make a bad idea true.

Bob Butler
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Generational Dynamics World View News

Post by Bob Butler »

JCP wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:24 am
Your version of the truth;
True, though lots of folks advocate for their own worldview, red and blue. In that I am hardly unique.
JCP wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:24 am
Rule of law when it suits your purposes;
Well, I have always been absurdly with the law, always advocated for it, though there seems to be more need of it of late. My police record contains a few long ago speeding tickets. I would think I am with lots of company there.
JCP wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:24 am
you throw all kinds of labels around, you hypocrite,
True. Conservative, liberal, red, blue, roundhead, cavalier, Republican, Democrat, WEIRD, tribal, hunter-gatherer, Agricultural Age, Industrial Age and Information Age for starters. Nazi I avoid applying to modern people as the people under Hitler pursued a different ageda than is currently held today. Other labels better serve my purpose. I will commonly use racist and tribal instead, while approving of neither.
JCP wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:24 am
Spell check doesn't make a bad idea true.
Agreed. We just likely disagree on what agendas are bad? Blocking solving problems such as the division of wealth, racism, and advocating false information seems to be called for? I would count these as bad ideas, problems to be solved. I would promote getting rid of the bad ideas. As they are issues near the core of this crisis, I see them as likely to be resolved, at least partially. If in some degree the beliefs and practices of making a few rich and others oppressed are again addressed, neither are apt to go away entirely. Other crisis, future awakenings, will be fueled in part by needs to address these further.

Bob Butler
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:48 am

Re: Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions

Post by Bob Butler »

John wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:16 am
Several flame war posts moved to S&H thread.
Just have created “A place to dump bad posts” in the Fourth Turning Forum just to keep the S&H discussions thread focused. Feel free to use.

John
Posts: 9936
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Re: Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions

Post by John »

** 09-Jan-2021 World View: Bad posts
John wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:16 am
> Several flame war posts moved to S&H thread.
Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:14 pm
> Just have created “A place to dump bad posts” in the Fourth
> Turning Forum just to keep the S&H discussions thread
> focused. Feel free to use.
The reason that I prefer the S&H thread is because it's a mirror
image of what happened in the two previous S&H forums.

In the original S&H forum, my thread "Objections to Generational
Dynamics" was completely trashed by Sean Love.

In the latest S&H forum, my thread "Generational Dynamics World View"
was completely trashed by you.

So it makes sense to me that in this forum, your trash should go into
the S&H thread. That makes sense to me. Doesn't it make sense to
you? I think it's a mathematically perfect mirror image.

Anyway, I don't think there's any special demand in this forum for a
thread to focus on S&H theory. If any exists, it could be handled in
other ways. For example, if someone wants to have a nostalgic
discussion of the life and loves of Neil Howe, they could start a Neil
Howe thread.

Guest

Re: Strauss-Howe Fourth Turning discussions

Post by Guest »

Bob Butler wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:05 am
The big issue is whether Trump was telling the truth that there was big time voting fraud. If so, you can almost forgive a lot of stuff, even up to armed insurrection. If not…. Lying for his own financial gain and to set groundwork for his post presidency position is hard to forgive. At the moment, with no evidence of massive fraud, with lawyers declining to speak of it as lying to a judge can get you disbarred, with Fox repudiating its reporting as soon as a defamation lawsuit became a possibility, with Trump’s habit of using lies, I am dubious.

That doesn’t mean I’m ready to start throwing the Nazi label around.

As with the BLM protests, the right to protest should be there, but violations of law should result in arrest and prosecution.

(Armed resurrection? Aren't spell checkers wonderful? :D }
There has been no legitimate means to subject the electoral fraud allegations to independent scrutiny. Time and again the courts have refused to investigate on procedural grounds - lack of locus standi, laches (i.e. delay - a doctrine that hitherto has been applied for delays of years but suddenly has applied to delays of days) - anything to avoid addressing the actual evidence.

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