10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

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Expand view Topic review: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by John » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:15 pm

Raynote wrote: > As for the rest, I completely agree with solomani: "Does not
> follow? Sex does not follow marriage?", knowing what human nature
> is and especially male human nature of those ages, it does.
Very funny. This is crossing the line into pure radical feminist
man-bashing. Mohamed had several adult wives to have sex with. Just
because there's a younger girl around the house doesn't mean that a
man automatically has sex with her, unless you also believe that all
men have sex with their daughters.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by Raynote » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:48 am

The truth is the fact that "true" Christians believe that Jews go to hell doesn't harm anyone. They go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus-Christ, so what! They (the Jews) couldn't care less! But the fact that "true" muslims believe that Christians and Jews should be exterminated, that 's very harmful to a lot of people! Completely different!

As for the rest, I completely agree with solomani: "Does not follow? Sex does not follow marriage?", knowing what human nature is and especially male human nature of those ages, it does.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by solomani » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:35 pm

John wrote:You're missing the point. "Moderate" Christians don't believe that
Jews go to hell, and "moderate" Muslims don't believe that Christians
and Jews should be exterminated.

You can argue that "moderate" Muslims aren't true Muslims, but
"moderate" Christians aren't true Christians either.

As for that pedophile stuff, Muslims consider that stuff to be
extremely offensive, and I don't blame them. Mohammed married many
women for their protection, after their husbands or male protectors
had been killed in battle, since an unattached girl was subject to
rape and assault. Whether he actually had sex with the underage girls
is unknown, but it does not follow from the fact that he married them.
Does not follow? Sex does not follow marriage? Since it does in normal human experience it does follow. Burden is on you to prove otherwise. Sounds like someone has a blindspot for Islam.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by John » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:31 pm

You're missing the point. "Moderate" Christians don't believe that
Jews go to hell, and "moderate" Muslims don't believe that Christians
and Jews should be exterminated.

You can argue that "moderate" Muslims aren't true Muslims, but
"moderate" Christians aren't true Christians either.

As for that pedophile stuff, Muslims consider that stuff to be
extremely offensive, and I don't blame them. Mohammed married many
women for their protection, after their husbands or male protectors
had been killed in battle, since an unattached girl was subject to
rape and assault. Whether he actually had sex with the underage girls
is unknown, but it does not follow from the fact that he married them.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by solomani » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi John I don't disagree with your comment. However Islam is by its nature a violent belief system. Remember Muhammid is the "perfect man" and all consistent Moslem men take him as their archetype. Yet he was a rapist, pedaphile, a raider/looter, murderer, liar, anti-rationa, oppressorl etc.

When a someone says they are a Christian yet kill people they are being inconsistent with the Christisn belief system. While a "Moslem" who rejects jihad, violence etc that is inherent in Islam they are being inconsistent.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by John » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:41 pm

This distinction between "true" and "moderate" believers in a religion
is a lot more complicated than it seems.

For example, a "true" Christian must believe that anyone who does not
accept Jesus as the Savior and the son of God is not a "true"
Christian, and will go to hell, and burn there forever.

Thus, "true" Christians believe that Jews will go to hell. And yet,
fundamentalist Christians whom I've spoken to admit this only
grudgingly, and most Christians believe it to be untrue (which it
isn't).

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by solomani » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:33 pm

Reality Check wrote:
solomani wrote:No such thing as a moderate Moslem. If a moslem is consistent they are not "moderate". The fault-line is between moslems and cultural moslems. Within Islam there is another fault line of shia and sunni.

So, based on this definition there would be "True Believer Muslims" ( your "moslem" ) and those who incorporate some of the "Muslim Culture" in their lives, but are "Not Practicing Muslims" ( your "cultural moslems"), is that correct ?
Correct. Islam is a totalaterian belief system so anything less than total commitment isn't really Islam and " moderates" do not represent the ideology in any way. Only what westerners call Islamasist or extremesist are actually consistent with the Islam belief system.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by Reality Check » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:49 am

solomani wrote:No such thing as a moderate Moslem. If a moslem is consistent they are not "moderate". The fault-line is between moslems and cultural moslems. Within Islam there is another fault line of shia and sunni.

So, based on this definition there would be "True Believer Muslims" ( your "moslem" ) and those who incorporate some of the "Muslim Culture" in their lives, but are "Not Practicing Muslims" ( your "cultural moslems"), is that correct ?

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by Reality Check » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:39 am

Trevor wrote:Well, we know that Turkey, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan are all in a crisis era, which is about 2/3rds of the Middle East.

One country where I'm not sure what location they are on the generational timeline is Yemen. I've been looking at their modern history and after a few days of looking at it, the best candidate for their previous crisis war is the North Yemen Civil War. When I look at their conflicts, that's the one that keeps coming up. They've got numerous other conflicts, including the 2011-2012 uprising, but the others read like violence for political gains, not the genocidal viciousness you would expect in a crisis war.

I'll continue the research, but right now, that's the one that jumps out at me.
Generational Dynamics predicts / follows populations based on the nation they belong to. But the concept of nationalism is not limited to arbitrary lines drawn on a map. Especially when those lines were drawn by third parties not living near the lines.

Arabs are a people who spread their ethnic group, their culture and their religion, out from the Arabian Peninsula primarily after 700 AD.

Many of the "countries" in the middle east and North Africa were created in the last 100 years by Europeans who either never lived there, or were just visiting for a few decades.

Syria for example; In the current civil war the majority of those fighting on the Sunni Arab side appear to identify more with a Sunni Arab nation ( empire ) that dominated North Africa and large parts of the Middle East for hundreds of years, than with a nation state of Syria. These would be the Muslim Brotherhood inspired, and Al Qaeda inspired, factions fighting on the Sunni Arab side of the Syrian civil war.

Re: 10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

by solomani » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:48 am

No such thing as a moderate Moslem. If a moslem is consistent they are not "moderate". The fault-line is between moslems and cultural moslems. Within Islam there is another fault line of shia and sunni.

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