10-Feb-13 WV-Arab Spring destabilization in Tunisia

[John]

10-Feb-13 World View -- Arab Spring destabilization increases with Tunisia crisis


Food fraud surges in America and Europe

** 10-Feb-13 World View -- Arab Spring destabilization increases with Tunisia crisis
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 10#e130210



Contents:
Tunisia's government crisis grows with pro-government rally
Growing tensions in Tunisia reflect the fault line across the 'Arab Spring'
Food fraud surges in America and Europe


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Tunisia, Tunis, Ennahda,
Chokri Belaid, France, Manuel Valls,
Rached Ghannouchi, Jasmine Revolution, Arab Spring,
Salafists, food fraud, U.S. Pharmacopeial Convention

[Trevor]

Well, we know that Turkey, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan are all in a crisis era, which is about 2/3rds of the Middle East.

One country where I'm not sure what location they are on the generational timeline is Yemen. I've been looking at their modern history and after a few days of looking at it, the best candidate for their previous crisis war is the North Yemen Civil War. When I look at their conflicts, that's the one that keeps coming up. They've got numerous other conflicts, including the 2011-2012 uprising, but the others read like violence for political gains, not the genocidal viciousness you would expect in a crisis war.

I'll continue the research, but right now, that's the one that jumps out at me.

[solomani]

No such thing as a moderate Moslem. If a moslem is consistent they are not "moderate". The fault-line is between moslems and cultural moslems. Within Islam there is another fault line of shia and sunni.

[Reality Check]

Well, we know that Turkey, Israel, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan are all in a crisis era, which is about 2/3rds of the Middle East.

One country where I'm not sure what location they are on the generational timeline is Yemen. I've been looking at their modern history and after a few days of looking at it, the best candidate for their previous crisis war is the North Yemen Civil War. When I look at their conflicts, that's the one that keeps coming up. They've got numerous other conflicts, including the 2011-2012 uprising, but the others read like violence for political gains, not the genocidal viciousness you would expect in a crisis war.

I'll continue the research, but right now, that's the one that jumps out at me.

Generational Dynamics predicts / follows populations based on the nation they belong to. But the concept of nationalism is not limited to arbitrary lines drawn on a map. Especially when those lines were drawn by third parties not living near the lines.

Arabs are a people who spread their ethnic group, their culture and their religion, out from the Arabian Peninsula primarily after 700 AD.

Many of the "countries" in the middle east and North Africa were created in the last 100 years by Europeans who either never lived there, or were just visiting for a few decades.

Syria for example; In the current civil war the majority of those fighting on the Sunni Arab side appear to identify more with a Sunni Arab nation ( empire ) that dominated North Africa and large parts of the Middle East for hundreds of years, than with a nation state of Syria. These would be the Muslim Brotherhood inspired, and Al Qaeda inspired, factions fighting on the Sunni Arab side of the Syrian civil war.

[Reality Check]

No such thing as a moderate Moslem. If a moslem is consistent they are not "moderate". The fault-line is between moslems and cultural moslems. Within Islam there is another fault line of shia and sunni.

So, based on this definition there would be "True Believer Muslims" ( your "moslem" ) and those who incorporate some of the "Muslim Culture" in their lives, but are "Not Practicing Muslims" ( your "cultural moslems"), is that correct ?

[solomani]

No such thing as a moderate Moslem. If a moslem is consistent they are not "moderate". The fault-line is between moslems and cultural moslems. Within Islam there is another fault line of shia and sunni.

So, based on this definition there would be "True Believer Muslims" ( your "moslem" ) and those who incorporate some of the "Muslim Culture" in their lives, but are "Not Practicing Muslims" ( your "cultural moslems"), is that correct ?

Correct. Islam is a totalaterian belief system so anything less than total commitment isn't really Islam and " moderates" do not represent the ideology in any way. Only what westerners call Islamasist or extremesist are actually consistent with the Islam belief system.

[John]

This distinction between "true" and "moderate" believers in a religion
is a lot more complicated than it seems.

For example, a "true" Christian must believe that anyone who does not
accept Jesus as the Savior and the son of God is not a "true"
Christian, and will go to hell, and burn there forever.

Thus, "true" Christians believe that Jews will go to hell. And yet,
fundamentalist Christians whom I've spoken to admit this only
grudgingly, and most Christians believe it to be untrue (which it
isn't).

[solomani]

Hi John I don't disagree with your comment. However Islam is by its nature a violent belief system. Remember Muhammid is the "perfect man" and all consistent Moslem men take him as their archetype. Yet he was a rapist, pedaphile, a raider/looter, murderer, liar, anti-rationa, oppressorl etc.

When a someone says they are a Christian yet kill people they are being inconsistent with the Christisn belief system. While a "Moslem" who rejects jihad, violence etc that is inherent in Islam they are being inconsistent.

[John]

You're missing the point. "Moderate" Christians don't believe that
Jews go to hell, and "moderate" Muslims don't believe that Christians
and Jews should be exterminated.

You can argue that "moderate" Muslims aren't true Muslims, but
"moderate" Christians aren't true Christians either.

As for that pedophile stuff, Muslims consider that stuff to be
extremely offensive, and I don't blame them. Mohammed married many
women for their protection, after their husbands or male protectors
had been killed in battle, since an unattached girl was subject to
rape and assault. Whether he actually had sex with the underage girls
is unknown, but it does not follow from the fact that he married them.

[solomani]

You're missing the point. "Moderate" Christians don't believe that
Jews go to hell, and "moderate" Muslims don't believe that Christians
and Jews should be exterminated.

You can argue that "moderate" Muslims aren't true Muslims, but
"moderate" Christians aren't true Christians either.

As for that pedophile stuff, Muslims consider that stuff to be
extremely offensive, and I don't blame them. Mohammed married many
women for their protection, after their husbands or male protectors
had been killed in battle, since an unattached girl was subject to
rape and assault. Whether he actually had sex with the underage girls
is unknown, but it does not follow from the fact that he married them.

Does not follow? Sex does not follow marriage? Since it does in normal human experience it does follow. Burden is on you to prove otherwise. Sounds like someone has a blindspot for Islam.