21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

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Expand view Topic review: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by CH86 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:22 pm

Guest wrote:
Cynic Hero 86 wrote:Stalin working to death tens of millions in ebanking forced industrialization enabled Russia to win the great patriotic war, thus ensuring Russian survival as a nation.
What an idiotic thing to say. Stalin executed good generals after losing his nerve once the German had invaded. He had executed virtually every officer in the Red army above the rank of major by 1938. Stalin left Russia woefully unprepared to fight WW2.
When Germany First invaded all of its enemies in WW2, the results were initially always the same, In Poland, In France, In the Balkans, in Russia, All of the allied forces initially were overwhelmed the first time they fought the Germans, even the Americans had trouble the first time we fought the Panzers head on (at Kasserine Pass). Yet in Poland the results of the defeat of the polish covering forces in the border meant that the road to Warsaw was open. In France the result of the defeat of the french forces and the BEF meant that the road to Paris was open. Yet in the invasion of Russia the defeat of the Russian covering forces at the border did not mean that the road to Moscow was open. This is because the ability of manpower organs to press gang and call up Reserve manpower, creating new armies and having stockpiled weaponry, factories existed to produce more tanks, planes, guns, etc. These institutions existed because of the sheer ruthlessness of Stalin and his efforts to get things done so that those institutions would come into existence. A Czarist Russia would have had none of these, it would have meant that the Germans defeating the Russians initially deployed forces would have meant that the Russians were done, and that Hitler would have been unobstructed in creating his dream of Lebensraum; converting large stretches of Russia into Lebensraum while their inhabitants are converted into German fertilizer. So much for insisting on being the "good guys".

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by FishbellykanakaDude » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:24 am

Guest wrote:There Will Be No American-Russian Alliance Against China

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... china.html

Looks like you are all wrong...
Where they get it "wrong" is that it won't be the US that "convinces" Russia to ally against China, but CHINA that will convince Russia to ally (with the US) against China.

..think on that for a bit. :)

Aloha. <shaka nui!>

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Guest » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:36 am

Cynic Hero 86 wrote:Stalin working to death tens of millions in ebanking forced industrialization enabled Russia to win the great patriotic war, thus ensuring Russian survival as a nation.
What an idiotic thing to say. Stalin executed good generals after losing his nerve once the German had invaded. He had executed virtually every officer in the Red army above the rank of major by 1938. Stalin left Russia woefully unprepared to fight WW2.

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Cynic Hero 86 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:24 pm

Stalin working to death tens of millions in ebanking forced industrialization enabled Russia to win the great patriotic war, thus ensuring Russian survival as a nation.

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Guest » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:18 pm

Cynic Hero 86 wrote:You still don't get it the reds obviously killed more Russian citizens than the czars: however because of forced industrialization there is still a nation called Russia which even dominated larges swaths of the world during the cold war era. Had the Russians kept the czarist system there wouldn't be a Russian nation today because the nazis would have conquered it and eliminated it's population as per generalplan ost.

Russia started a program of rapid industrialization in the 1890s that continued right up to 1917. Today Russia is filled with abandoned factories that when operating produced substandard products that only soviets would purchase because that didn't have the money nor the option to buy vastly superior western made products. The Soviet union made some decent guns, but not much else. And don't bother to regale me with tails of the T-34. I'm not interested.

Economic growth rates averaged 9% in the 1890s and 5% from 1900–1914. While Russia was not the industrial giant that Germany was, but it was developing rapidly without having to resort to mass murder. Stalin ordered millions of soviet citizens to be worked death in horrific conditions in order to 'modernize' the Soviet Union. Is modernization worth more than the live of millions of people?
fertilizer that the average Russian would been turned into had Russia kept the czarist system.
It was Stalin and the Reds who turned tens of millions of Russians into fertilizer, not the Czars.

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Cynic Hero 86 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:34 pm

You still don't get it the reds obviously killed more Russian citizens than the czars: however because of forced industrialization there is still a nation called Russia which even dominated larges swaths of the world during the cold war era. Had the Russians kept the czarist system there wouldn't be a Russian nation today because the nazis would have conquered it and eliminated it's population as per generalplan ost.

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Guest » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:14 pm

Cynic Hero 86 wrote:Being a footsoldier of am opprestive dictatorship is a far better deal than being the German fertilizer that the average Russian would been turned into had Russia kept the czarist system.
Let's make this simple (an oversimplification because you are so dense): How many of their own subjects did the czars murder vs. how many of their own citizens did the Reds murder?

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Cynic Hero 86 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:09 pm

Being a footsoldier of am opprestive dictatorship is a far better deal than being the German fertilizer that the average Russian would been turned into had Russia kept the czarist system.

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by Guest » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:26 am

CH86 wrote:
Guest wrote:
CH86 wrote:
Yeah Boomers hoping that Putin takes an alliance with the west are delusional. The boomers are even more delusional if they think a liberal government would be in power in Moscow and then allies with us, THAT is just boomer masturbation. It is the Boomers and their collective policy toward Putin over the past 18 years has made such an option very close to an impossibility. Why would Putin and Assad accept the friendship or even more laughably, the rules of engagement of the same selfish boomers that want to see Kasparov and the Romanov heir in the Kremlin. The Russians have become a proud and strong people ever since they whipped into shape by Stalin's five year plans and purges all those decades ago. They would never submit to the dictates of those (western boomers) who want to return them to the degradation of the czarist and early Bolshevist eras.
You have only read the Marxist version of history. Russia was a rapidly developing country with a growing middle class when the Reds came in and destroyed everything. The Czars were great builders and sometimes even great reformers (I'll leave it to you to research which ones). Russia under communism was a disaster. Russia's growth was retarded under the Bolsheviks.

Putin is just a common thief. The growth in Russia under Putin exactly mirrors the rise in the price of oil. During the oil boom, when Russia should have used the extra oil revenue to modernize the country, Putin and his cronies stole most of it. Putin is the richest man in the world (estimated personal worth of 200 plus billion USD). Most of the elderly and vulnerable died during the turmoil of the 1990s. Putin didn't save anyone. Putin is an absolute disgrace. It's ignoramuses like you who buy into his false image.

You are nothing but 'a useful idiot', and a pathetic cliche of one at that.
Who was in charge in Russia during most of the 1990s, Yeltsin. Putin came in and undid just about everything Yeltsin believed in. Putin has his faults but he is a vast improvement for the average Russian than Yeltsin was. Regarding Russia in 1917, Russia in 1917 was a non-industrial peasant economy who had just lost a war with the German empire (who had a modern society and economy). That is why the government fell, the old Bolsheviks were not an improvement, presiding over the civil war and famine and later NEP begging. It was Stalin who whipped Russia into Shape turning it rapidly into a industrial and military superpower with by sheer ruthlessness and determination.
You haven't really studied history. Wikipedia isn't a substitute for genuine research.

Re: 21-Jul-18 World View -- The Trump-Putin private meeting was almost certainly about China

by CH86 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:58 am

Guest wrote:
CH86 wrote:
Guest wrote:There Will Be No American-Russian Alliance Against China

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... china.html

Looks like you are all wrong...
Yeah Boomers hoping that Putin takes an alliance with the west are delusional. The boomers are even more delusional if they think a liberal government would be in power in Moscow and then allies with us, THAT is just boomer masturbation. It is the Boomers and their collective policy toward Putin over the past 18 years has made such an option very close to an impossibility. Why would Putin and Assad accept the friendship or even more laughably, the rules of engagement of the same selfish boomers that want to see Kasparov and the Romanov heir in the Kremlin. The Russians have become a proud and strong people ever since they whipped into shape by Stalin's five year plans and purges all those decades ago. They would never submit to the dictates of those (western boomers) who want to return them to the degradation of the czarist and early Bolshevist eras.
You have only read the Marxist version of history. Russia was a rapidly developing country with a growing middle class when the Reds came in and destroyed everything. The Czars were great builders and sometimes even great reformers (I'll leave it to you to research which ones). Russia under communism was a disaster. Russia's growth was retarded under the Bolsheviks.

Putin is just a common thief. The growth in Russia under Putin exactly mirrors the rise in the price of oil. During the oil boom, when Russia should have used the extra oil revenue to modernize the country, Putin and his cronies stole most of it. Putin is the richest man in the world (estimated personal worth of 200 plus billion USD). Most of the elderly and vulnerable died during the turmoil of the 1990s. Putin didn't save anyone. Putin is an absolute disgrace. It's ignoramuses like you who buy into his false image.

You are nothing but 'a useful idiot', and a pathetic cliche of one at that.
Who was in charge in Russia during most of the 1990s, Yeltsin. Putin came in and undid just about everything Yeltsin believed in. Putin has his faults but he is a vast improvement for the average Russian than Yeltsin was. Regarding Russia in 1917, Russia in 1917 was a non-industrial peasant economy who had just lost a war with the German empire (who had a modern society and economy). That is why the government fell, the old Bolsheviks were not an improvement, presiding over the civil war and famine and later NEP begging. It was Stalin who whipped Russia into Shape turning it rapidly into a industrial and military superpower with by sheer ruthlessness and determination.

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