“Long term, disastrous” was the top response, garnering 355 votes as of early afternoon Monday. The 12 next most popular answers were only slightly less morose, with responders rating the Fed’s move as “negative,” a sarcastic “thanks for $5 gas” and 26 votes to fire Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke.
Depending what interest group site you pick on Face Book before the election, either Romney or Obama should have won by a landslide. Instead it was a 50 - 50 decision with Obama edging Romney.
Not sure what a pool of a few hundred, or even a few thousand, self-selected commentators within any given interest group on face book tells you about any nationwide policy in a country with over 300 Million people.
You may be correct that these commentators are FED insiders, or they may instead by Ron Paul fans who watch the FED to see what the devil is up to.
Hard to tell.
Last edited by Reality Check on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rather than expose the assets buried deep in Pension Funds and IRAs to the light of day and open markets, it is far better to have them just disappear in a cloud of mystery such as the MF Global funds that magically left segregated accounts never to be seen again. Or the stock certificates, bond certificates, and account balances that disappeared from financial institutions "keeping them safe" during the Great Depression ( both before and during the Bank Holiday ).
Blame the big corporations and the do nothing Congress for failing to fix the economy and have the U.S. Federal Government ride to the rescue with pre-packaged financial institution bankruptcies and new federal programs to distribute new "electronic" Fiat money for food and rent. Blame the people who "wanted to privatize Social Security" for stealing the retirement money, or at least wanting to make more money available for their rich friends to steal.
Turn the U.S. domestic economy into a U.S. Government company store where the Federal Government makes a profit on every rent payment and every loaf of bread sold.
The benefit to the federal government is huge, and the victims with the most to lose, the people at or near retirement age, are powerless, as the last election proved.
How much free money, available for the taking, are we talking here?
( Of course you must deduct from the following number the money that is already missing from the toxic assets included in the pension funds/IRAs. Also a minimal percentage might actually be in federally insured bank accounts that would need to be replaced with new FIat Money. But when you are stealing 10 Trillion dollars, what is a little shrinkage? )
This may shed some light on what is going on with the FED setting up multiple new ABA numbers for each existing ABA number at the FED.
FT Article - U.S. & U.K. disclose Plans to let Banks Fail wrote:" ... healthy operating subsidiaries, both foreign and domestic, would be allowed to keep operating, limiting the damage to the broader economy, the regulators write.
The intervention would occur at the top-tier holding company level ..."
H, this may go along with what you were talking about related to serious proposals for mandatory federal annuities instead of IRAs and 401(K) plans.
Note the desire to define the "crisis" in terms of the lack of "defined benefit" retirement programs for 4 out of 5 workers, and totally ignore defined contribution retirement plans like 401(K)s and IRAs, as if they do not even exist.
Just MHO you all are giving the movers and shakers way too much credit for planning and intelligence. Ruthlessness and advertising I'll grant them, but not planning and intelligence. Otherwise, they'd be out and laughing when all these bubbles burst, not crying about bailouts.
Reality Check wrote:You may be correct that these commentators are FED insiders, or they may instead by Ron Paul fans who watch the FED to see what the devil is up to.
Hard to tell.
Reading through all those responses again, I don't have a feel for where those kinds of responses would have come from. I'd forgotten all of that except for the fact that the responses were virtually all negative.
At the time of that poll, most of the professionals who run large money were making public statements such as - they didn't see how a QE3 would help, but Dr. Bernanke would know better and they would defer to him. I think those types would have voted a simple "negative".
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.
Higgenbotham wrote: I think those types would have voted a simple "negative".
In my humble opinion a substantial majority of American voters would vote to throw Obama out of office, so my opinion is suspect.
But as I said earliar, the way the 40 Billion a month pump was announced made me believe it was driven by pure raw fear related to something the FED believed would happen if they did not do it. What that might have been would only be uninformed speculation on my part.
OLD1953 wrote:Otherwise, they'd be out and laughing when all these bubbles burst, not crying about bailouts.
People are funny organisms. Threaten them and they react. Back in the 2007 - 2009 time frame the elites controlling the Federal Government felt very threatened and to some degree powerless.
Dodd-Frank was an attempt to make the elites controlling the government feel powerful again.
When you add Dodd-Frank to the Obama Care decision of the Supreme Court the power of the U.S. government's legislative and executive branches to control the U.S. Domestic economy grew by several levels of magnitude. Some of us believe Obama is willing, and able, to exercise both the legislative and executive power from the executive branch without the agreement of Congress.
The question is how they, the Generation Xers running the executive branch, will use these new powers, now that they have not been held accountable for their past failures?
These are Generation Xers who always knew, deep down inside, they would never be held accountable for anything. So now that that belief has been confirmed by the recent elections, what will they do?
One option is that the U.S. Government, and the U.S. Federal Reserve System will survive, and even become stronger as it did in the 1930s.
Here is a modified speculative scenario ( based on the above option ) for consideration:
1. People actually physically holding U.S. dollar bills and physically holding U.S. debt instruments ( such as U.S. Treasuries), physically holding stock certificates, and physically holding formal ownership certificates of other types of securities will have investments which will continue to have some value. Gold and precious metals will also continue to hold some value. Just like they did during the Great Depression.
2. People who allowed the "regulated financial institutions" to hold the physical dollar bills and physical Treasuries and physical stock certificates, will be informed that the federal government has been forced to liquidate some federally regulated financial institutions because "something bad was going on within those private corporations" and, just like MF Global, those federal reserve dollars and those physical Treasuries and physical stock certificates are no longer in the accounts where they are supposed to be. Do not worry, the U.S. government is on it, they will investigate and let you know what happened, just like MF Global. The U.S. government promises to "stand behind" Federally Insured accounts. But not all accounts are insured.
3. Bank runs begin, retirement accounts are not demand deposit accounts and must wait for their money, the Federal Government is "forced by the bank runs" to declare a "bank holiday" affecting all Financial Institutions in the United States.
4. By federal law, virtually all IRAs, all private. and all state and local government pension plans, must keep their assets in regulated financial institutions and neither the non-bank trustees, nor the individual beneficiaries are allowed to hold their own physical dollars or their own physical bond certificates or their own physical stock certificates, without incurring many costs and many inconveniences. Federal law makes it extremely costly, inefficient, and inconvenient for non-bank trustees to physically hold stock certificates, bonds, treasuries, other securities or cash. Federal law also imposes a fiduciary duty on trustees not to run up transaction costs of the type required to physically hold stock certificates and physical certificates of other securities.
5. The U.S. government moves swiftly to save the financial system and re-opens local banks under new ownership. Initial accounts are being automatically opened for every tax payer with a small nominal deposit of new "electronic safe dollars". These accounts are being opened in all of the newly re-opened banks. An account will automatically be opened for each Social Security Number, each Employer Identification Number, and each Tax Payer Identification number for non-U.S. citizens. Priority is given to transferring the insured demand deposits of businesses to their corresponding Employer Identification Number Account. These new "electronic safe dollars" must be accepted within the United States for all debts, the U.S. government "stands behind the safe electronic dollars for internal U.S. use". These new "electronic safe dollars" are only good for use in the United States, but not backed up by the Federal Reserve, and not for buying foreign goods.
6. We are all in this together, and those U.S. citizens holding U.S. federal reserve dollars, U.S. Treasuries, Bonds, stock certificates and precious metals will not be allowed to take them out of the country legally. As an emergency measure all U.S. markets that trade in stocks, bonds, U.S. Treasuries and other securities have been closed temporarily until new regulations to keep the U.S. Financial system safe can be imposed.
7. Paper U.S. Dollars are hoarded and are rare. Private businesses are forced to accept the new "safe electronic dollars". There are simply too few U.S. paper dollars in circulation to be used as currency. The only available form of electronic payment is with the new "safe electronic dollars". New "safe electronic dollars" are used to pay employees. The option to allow payment of employees by electronic means was first allowed, and then mandated in the United States in recent years. The United States based Visa and Master Card networks have been converted to use new "safe electronic dollars" exclusively within the United States.
8. Those individuals with FDIC insured demand accounts willing to voluntarily accept new "safe electronic dollars" receive the insured portion of those accounts back promptly within a month or two, less the initial advance of new "safe electronic dollars" they received from the federal government.
9. Those individuals with a portion of their pension or retirement accounts in government insured accounts are offered that portion as an immediate cash distribution, in the form of new "safe electronic dollars". As an alternative they may wait until the investigation into wrong doing is completed to see if their money can be recovered from the perpetrators and their pension accounts reconstituted. Virtually everyone takes the immediate cash distribution option and pays early withdrawal penalties and income tax on the withdrawal. The U.S. government receives a windfall in tax revenue and the right to recover 100% of the insured funds and investments if they can be located.
10. The Federal Government announces a bold new "United States Private Pension" program to replace all private pension plans for future retirees. Existing retirees who lost some, or all, of their private retirement will receive a small monthly payment from the U.S. government as a partial compensation. It will be means tested. Those retires with incomes over 200% of the new poverty level will not receive the partial pension. It will be funded from recovered assets from the pension system collapse. For those still working a small mandatory deduction of 3% per year for both the employee and the employer will required to fund the bold new "United States Private Pension" program. This will be in addition to the Social Security system which the U.S. government promises to shore up because it is more important than ever. The new annuity only based Private Pension system guaranteed by the U.S. Government will be phased in very slowly in the same manner as the Social Security System was phased in. It will be funded via government Trust Accounts in the same way Social Security has been securely funded for decades. Initially, just like Obama Care and Social Security, massive taxes will start flowing in to the trust fund long before significant monthly annuity payments are paid out.
11. The U.S. administration is widely praised for not waiting until the investigation into what happened to all those pension assets before "permanently fixing" the U.S. private pension system. It is now common knowledge that allowing banks, stock brokers and insurance companies to be involved in pension plans was a very bad idea. No one has yet gone to jail for the missing pension assets but the government promises to file charges against any wrong doers identified by the ongoing investigation if warranted by the evidence.
12. The Trillions upon Trillions of Wealth that were in those Pension funds and IRA accounts ( roughly 9 Trillion in total ), using investments not insured by the federal government is unaccounted for. Exactly what was insured and was not insured will take months, maybe years to sort out. The creation of the bold new private pension system guaranteed by the U.S. government ends the need to wait until that investigation is completed to know how much the monthly payments of each current retiree will be. The bold new system has gotten money flowing to those current retirees who need it most, and any assets eventually recovered from the pension system crisis we be used to re-pay the U.S. government for those emergency partial pension payments and to fund the partial pension program for the remainder of the lives of those who lost their pension assets and need it most.
13. As in the Great Depression the investment counselors, bankers, trustees and money changers take the public blame for this collapse of the debt bubble.
14. The federal government is praised for being prepared and moving forward in just a few months so that people could again buy food and pay rent after the banks failed and were re-opened under new ownership. First responders and other federal, state and local government employees began receiving pay checks almost immediately using new "safe electronic dollars". Millions more would have suffered temporary starvation if the federal government had not been so prepared and moved so quickly.
15. Eventually most U.S. paper dollars backed by the Federal Reserve in the United States are voluntarily exchanged for new "safe electronic dollars", confiscated as they were being illegally smuggled out of the country, or smuggled out of the country and sold abroad. Tax collection in the United States becomes more efficient because all tax payer financial transactions are conducted electronically through a single account with the Social Security Number as the account number.
16. The U.S. continues to trade overseas using U.S. Federal Reserve dollars and stands behind U.S. Treasuries held overseas with U.S. Federal Reserve dollars. U.S. government debt issued as Bearer Bonds are Still in wide circulation, but for many years only registered U.S. Government debt has been issued. U.S. debt certificates registered in the United States to private citizens or pension funds are not honored if smuggled out of the country and sold overseas. More than half the U.S. Debt has been issued in the last 10 years with virtually all of those recent debt instruments being registered debt and the vast majority of U.S. Debt is held in the United States.
17. By federal law U.S. government debt re-paid to U.S. citizens is paid exclusively in new "safe electronic dollars". Income tax is now collected on all U.S. Government debt payments to U.S. citizens to insure everyone is paying their fair share.
18. Both U.S. paper dollars and U.S. Debt redeemable overseas have become more rare and more valuable. Just like they became more valuable during the Great Depression.
19. Converting "safe electronic dollars" to "federal reserve dollars", and the reverse, is subject to a fee from the U.S. government. This becomes a major new source of revenue to the federal government. and because it is a banking fee, not a tariff, it applies to every foreign purchase or sale of goods and services, without violating the Free Trade International Treaties.
This is just one scenario where the U.S. government, U.S. Federal Reserve Note Currency and the U.S. Federal Reserve system survive the debt bubble collapse. It should also be noted that under this scenario the U.S. dollar could easily survive as the World Reserve Currency no longer tied to the U.S. Domestic economy, and instead being used as the currency of international commerce backed up by the still formidable military might of the United States.
Reality Check wrote:Here is a modified speculative scenario ( based on the above option ) for consideration:
There are some interesting aspects to that scenario.
It would be plausible to consider that a reorganization of the dollar would be tied into a Homeland Security initiative. US citizens and those approved to be inside the country and thus under the umbrella of the internal dollars might be issued a government ID card similar to a debit or credit card. This card could have a photo and a biomarker that makes it only accessible and usable by the person to whom it was issued. The card could be required to be on the person at all times and be presented to Homeland Security upon request. It may be impossible to buy or sell officially without the use of this card. Christians may protest that it is a precursor to the "Mark of the Beast" or is the "Mark of the Beast" and identify Obama as the Anti-Christ.
At present, it is possible for both US citizens and foreigners to buy US Treasuries directly from the government. When purchasing, each citizen who has an account with the government is issued an electronic bond, note or bill into an account associated with their name. At present, when a US Treasury instrument matures in such an account, the holder can either roll it into a new Treasury instrument or is issued electronic dollars into the account. These electronic dollars are called "zero percent certificates of indebtedness" and are a special class of dollars issued into Treasury accounts that roll over once per day with no interest until they are either moved out of the account or used to buy another Treasury instrument. Under a dollar reorganization, how would an existing electronic bond, note or bill under direct ownership by an individual US citizen be treated? You mentioned above that, "By federal law U.S. government debt re-paid to U.S. citizens is paid exclusively in new "safe electronic dollars"." I assume this means upon maturity, the US citizen owner of the bond, note, or bill receives electronic dollars and cannot buy another US Treasury instrument? If the intent is to reduce the debt in this manner by converting it to electronic dollars, that could be problematic because it converts long term dollars that are locked up into dollars that can be spent immediately, and could cause asset bubbles or inflation.
While the periphery breaks down rather slowly at first, the capital cities of the hegemon should collapse suddenly and violently.