20-Feb-13 WV-New report reveals massive Chinese cyber war

[John]

20-Feb-13 World View -- New report reveals massive cyber war attack by China's army

China rejects Philippines arbitration application

** 20-Feb-13 World View -- New report reveals massive cyber war attack by China's army
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 20#e130220



Contents:
New report reveals massive cyber war attack by China's army
China continues war preparations
Revisiting Huawei and ZTE
China rejects Philippines arbitration application


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, China, People's Liberation Army, PLA,
Mandiant, Unit 61398, APT1, Vietnam, Philippines, Japan,
Huawei, ZTE, International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea, ITLOS,

[Trevor]

Soon as I saw that on the news, I knew you were going to mention it. I don't see how it could possibly come as a surprise, though; they've been hacking into our military databases and this seems like the next logical step to take.

Right now, I'm just wondering whether this war is going to start out small, say an invasion of Vietnam or the Philippines, or whether it'll drag in every country in the Pacific over the course of just a couple of months. There's also a lot more talk of the possibility, where it was previously dismissed. I talked to someone I know that's convinced that war's going to break out, except he expects the president to do nothing but give speeches and not assist our allies in the region.

I'm a little skeptical of us being attacked in 2013, but I'd say 2015 at the latest, with the way things are going. The Chinese military budget should be out in a couple weeks, which should give an idea as to their progress.

[jmparret]

The Chinese are trying to intimidate everyone. This article outlines that the Chinese are warning other Asian nations that resistance is futile and WWIII will result.

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... offensive/

That meeting took place at what was supposed to be a relaxing evening here in Melbourne Australia.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/ ... 0C20130117

Did the military take direction from their leaders to intimidate surrounding Asian nations?

Joe

[tx2]

"China has declared economic war on Japan in order to gain control of the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands controlled by Japan. Chinese citizens have smashes Japanese cars and factories in China to force Japan to give up its historic control of these islands."

That's only true for a month or two. the sales of Japanese car in China are recovering way better than most people expected.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 85692.html
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2012/1 ... STt0vIzSM0

"Kill a chicken to scare the monkeys",
You mentioned this quite a few times in different articles. If all chinese can do is Kill a chicken to scare the monkeys, there would have no Korea war and Vietnam war again US. You would be fooled if you believe this.

"the Americans would run like rabbits."

Only fool would believe that Chinese think American are rabbits.

"China's military budget has been increasing exponentially for years, and now China's military is deploying a large number of new warships, tanks, missiles, submarines and strike aircraft, much of it in preparation for full-scale war with the United States."

What would US do if US territory is fully surrounded and monitored 24/7 by Foreign armies with modern weapons?

"China is demanding sovereign control of the entire South China Sea, including islands and regions that have historically belonged to other nations"

"historically", this is very ambiguous word. Even part of Vietnam was part of Chinese territory in the past 2 thousand years, on and off, the closest could be Ming Dynasty according to the linker below.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _China.gif

Dear John,

I can find more if I want. You are significantly increase your posts against China recently. As a Chinese born us citizen, clearly, I don't like it. For very selfish reason, I like to see US and China have good relationship forever. I also like to see Japan and China have good relationship too since I spent five years there and I love the people there. Personally, As a long-term reader(>5 years), I respect you very much in all area, but not this. There is always a better way to contribute to the relationship between US and China. I fully understand that whatever I say will not change the way you look at China and the world including US, Can you report more positive news regarding the relationship and use your GD theory to interpret these? I am sure there are tons out there and you don't even have to dig. Also, not every US company saying is totally right and not every Chinese company saying is totally wrong. Btw, who invented internet? United States. Who has the most advanced technology regarding the web security including cyber attack? the answer is obvious for everyone.
Sincerely,
tx

[tx2]

Here is a post from yahoo finance I came across today. This is one of many well said.

Andy • 29 minutes ago Report Abuse

Our country is the world's largest manipulator of currency. We are just so hypocritical of other countries doing it. We point our fingers at everybody. Given our antichinese sentiment, China is the first to blame. Yet they have appreciate their currency considerably to please the world's nations. Instead of getting thanks, we keep on blaming them. Europe has been doing it the last 2 years. Have we put any pressure on them? None, of course. Now it is Japan's turn. Since Japan is more or less our vassal state, we do not blame them. Honestly, Japan has been following USA's wishes the last 205 years. What happened? They have 25 years of deflation, thanks to our economists. USA has to provide leadership out of these. The first thing it has to do is to control our own currency depreciation. Instead we are a leader who is the worst offender.

Dear John,

From my understanding, the ultimate goal for this website is to ask people to remember the history and do not make more devastating mistakes that's being made by our ancestor. You have a few posters regarding the Holocaust too. You sure don't want those things happen again, do you? Please, Think about it, what will ordinary american react when they read your post? Hate chinese more. How can you hate chinese who make so many cheap goods for the world while earn so little? Here on the US side, plenty of Chinese born US citizens do scientific research for the US company and government. Most of them don't even care about the politics due to the environment when they grew up in China. What harm can they do to the US? I am not afraid at all, but if I say the tendency that you are indirectly help to create another type of Holocaust here in the United States against Chinese, Would you deny? Please do not just say I report, you decide.

I still think you are a person I should respect (you maybe not care). You had told me that war is a bunch of nice people again another bunch of nice people. There are quite a few reason I followed you for more than 5 years. Please don't spread the negative stuff, tell people something positive, make people love each other even the policy makers on both sides made wrong. People are innocent. Nevertheless, people are always get sacrificed.

I am here not asking for praise. not even ask for justice since this is not the court. I feel like it's my responsibility to give the feedback.

Sincerely,
tx

[John]

This is so outrageous that it's hard for me to figure out where to
start.

You say that you like and respect what I write, except when I
criticize China.

So I assume you like it when I criticize America, or criticize Greece,
or criticize France, or criticize Egypt, or criticize Israel, or
criticize Iran, or criticize Pakistan, or criticize Russia, or
criticize Kenya, or criticize Wall Street. You like and respect those
criticisms.

I comment on dozens of countries around the world, and most of my
comments are criticisms. That's perfectly OK with you. You like
that.

But criticize China? Oh, no. You don't like that. You want me to
single out China for special treatment, and make China the only
country in the world that I don't criticize. Why do you think I would
EVER agree to that?

---

Suppose that several American generals made some remark similar to,
"Let's kill a chicken to scare the monkeys." What would happen then?

I would criticize those remarks. In fact, there would be worldwide
outrage. Even the NY Times, which is practically an arm of the Obama
administration, would be outraged. Politicians and analysts around
the world would condemn the remarks. President Obama would publicly
criticize the generals who made those remarks, and emphasize that
those remarks don't represent Washington's policy.

So, where's the article in the Global Times expressing outrage, and
criticizing the Chinese generals' remarks? Where's the statement by
Hu Jintao or Xi Jinping publicly criticizing the generals who made
those remarks, emphasizing that those remarks don't represent
Beijing's policy?

The answer is that those articles and statements don't exist. And the
reason that they don't exist is because the generals' remarks DO
REPRESENT Beijing's policy.

Your own remarks illustrate the same problem. You could have
criticized and condemned the generals' remarks. You could have
written to me, "John, on behalf of all Chinese people, I apologize to
you and all Americans for the outrageous remarks made by the Chinese
generals."

But you didn't do that. Instead of criticizing the generals'
war-mongering comments, you criticize me and call me a "fool" for
MERELY QUOTING the Chinese generals' remarks. So as far as you're
concerned, the Chinese generals can threaten war all they want, and
that's perfectly OK with you. You would never criticize the Chinese
generals. You criticize me for QUOTING the Chinese generals. That's
the height of hypocrisy.

That's the same hypocrisy we see in Beijing all the time. China can
threaten war, attack Vietnam and Philippine ships, implement a massive
military buildup, preparing for war with the United States, and that's
OK, but if anyone merely SAYS what China is doing, they're called a
warmonger.

That's the same technique that the Nazis used - claiming that there
was no military buildup, that they were peaceful, that they were only
defending themselves and they were only reclaiming land that was
historically theirs in Czech-oslovakia. The Nazis were "peaceful"
until they launched the war. That's what China is doing.

----

> How can you hate chinese who make so many cheap goods for the
> world while earn so little? Here on the US side, plenty of Chinese
> born US citizens do scientific research for the US company and
> government. Most of them don't even care about the politics due to
> the environment when they grew up in China. What harm can they do
> to the US? I am not afraid at all, but if I say the tendency that
> you are indirectly help to create another type of Holocaust here
> in the United States against Chinese, Would you deny? Please do
> not just say I report, you decide.

I do not hate Chinese-Americans or ordinary Chinese people, and I
don't know anybody who does. If you've received some discrimination
because you're Chinese, then I apologize on behalf of all Americans.

However, to suggest the possibility of a "Holocaust here in the United
States against Chinese" is total fantasy. However, I'll address this
general issue.

During WW II, after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and after the
Japanese maimed and tortured and murdered Americans on the Bataan
Death March, there was no Holocaust against the Japanese. Many
Japanese-Americans were interned in camps, and even this is still
considered to be a major historical embarrassment for America. But
there was no Holocaust.

Even though we were at war against the Nazis, there was no Holocaust
in America against the Germans. Germans were not even interned. In
fact, many German-Americans turned against the Nazis and supported the
American war effort against the Nazis. Probably Albert Einstein was
the most famous example.

Even though you don't care about politics, and you don't want to think
about it, I believe that in your heart you're very well aware that
China is planning to attack the United States. I don't blame you for
not wanting to think about it, because you know that at some point you
and other Chinese-Americans are going to have to make a choice whether
to betray China or to betray the United States. I hope you find a way
to make the right choice.

As for me, I'll continue to write about China's military statements
and behavior, and that China is making a historic mistake that will be
a disaster for China, for America, and the entire world.

[at99sy]

I was in the 75th Ranger Regiment from 1984-1988 and the internet of course did not exist at that point, however, we would have
table talk "think-tanks" periodically to brainstorm different ways that a "foreign" force could take out America. Keep in mind that I was an enlisted guy and so was everyone else at the table and fermented beverages were consumed in appropriate quantities. That said-we were trained to look for the unseen enemy, the impossibilities, the improbabilities, the million to one odds types of things so that we could make contingency plans for every thing that could possibly go wrong or occur during a mission. So we wanted to figure out how anyone could possibly take over America. Nukes were not an option since a conquering country would want the resources and would probably want the population for cheap labor. We got the energy corridor maps and discovered that there were only a few dozen major "hubs" in the country that electric power passed through, and the same with communication lines at that time. We also figured out where the key transportation routes were for rail and highway traffic.

It was determined that a few dozen small groups with explosives could disrupt nearly all of the power, communication, and transportation in this country in a few hour period. It wouldn't take long for the economy to be dead and the federal government to be completely ineffective. States for a brief time would likely become very powerful or very weak depending on their individual circumstances. The one thing we could never rectify was how then could the "foreign" force actually occupy and control the land? We could not ever come up with a scenario that would eliminate the heavily armed civilian militia or the armed forces themselves.

Destroying our economy I think is the easy part, and now I think I see how it could be pulled off. The economy is destroyed, the fed government is ineffective and desperate, the people are broke and scared, and in swoops the World Bank, IMF and other "lending institutions" under the control of others who will bail us out at the expense of signing over the rights to our natural resources and industry. Just like what has happened all over the world to countries like Jamaica and anyone else who accepted the "rescue" of the IMF. In short-no invasion is needed. destroy our economy, make people desperate and broke, send in the carpet baggers and WINNING!

just my 2cents. Thoughts?

[tx2]

Dear John,

Thank you for your reply. Take it easy, the good thing is that you are dealing with a man, not a woman, I hope that make you feel a little better.

"This is so outrageous that it's hard for me to figure out where to
start.
You say that you like and respect what I write, except when I
criticize China.
So I assume you like it when I criticize America, or criticize Greece,
or criticize France, or criticize Egypt, or criticize Israel, or
criticize Iran, or criticize Pakistan, or criticize Russia, or
criticize Kenya, or criticize Wall Street. You like and respect those
criticisms.
I comment on dozens of countries around the world, and most of my
comments are criticisms. That's perfectly OK with you. You like
that.
But criticize China? Oh, no. You don't like that. You want me to
single out China for special treatment, and make China the only
country in the world that I don't criticize. Why do you think I would
EVER agree to that?"

This is wrong. I said I respected you and also I said I responded only because you post China negatively with high frequency and could mislead the reader and increase the tension. I said i didn't expect you change anything but it's my responsibility to give you feedback. First of all, how many times do you see tx on your message board? I read your articles very often and did not post a single word during past ~2years. Even I did before, usually two, one was my opinion and this other was thank you message because you were so nice to respond me, I sincerely thank you for that. On the other hand, how many times do you write about China? I understand you don't create these events relate to China, you report. That's why I don't post (I admit I did the day before yesterday and today). 2) I have to emphasize this, it takes a really really sick person to really enjoy the negative news as bad as people dying or on their way to die around world. How can I enjoy if I learn that my children will be part of it? 3) I didn't mention in my previous response, I respect you because you are generally not only a person with high integrity, but also an extremely hard worker, I can't write everyday, not even once a week. I only think there is a better way to do this. I also understand you are trying to raise the public awareness by creating this website to get people prepared, the side affect is that you may increase the tension without your notice. Increasing hatred only hurts both sides. People respond to negative news and War is a bunch of nice people against another.

"Your own remarks illustrate the same problem. You could have
criticized and condemned the generals' remarks. You could have
written to me, "John, on behalf of all Chinese people, I apologize to
you and all Americans for the outrageous remarks made by the Chinese
generals."
But you didn't do that. Instead of criticizing the generals'
war-mongering comments, you criticize me and call me a "fool" for
MERELY QUOTING the Chinese generals' remarks. So as far as you're
concerned, the Chinese generals can threaten war all they want, and
that's perfectly OK with you. You would never criticize the Chinese
generals. You criticize me for QUOTING the Chinese generals. That's
the height of hypocrisy."

I was not trained to represent generals, the president when I was young in China. it's simply not the way how generations grew up in that era there got educated. Maybe this is something I should learn here, thank you for pointing this out. I agree with you, military threat is not the right way to do, I don't support that. Again, as I mentioned, increasing hatred only hurts both sides, doesn't matter how to do it.

"During WW II, after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and after the
Japanese maimed and tortured and murdered Americans on the Bataan
Death March, there was no Holocaust against the Japanese. Many
Japanese-Americans were interned in camps, and even this is still
considered to be a major historical embarrassment for America. But
there was no Holocaust."

I give credit to American.
It doesn't take a Holocaust to make life miserable. Do you think these innocent Japanese-American were proud and happy to live in the camps? They would be talking about what later MLK talked about everybody was equal? Children, even they were born in the United States, were happy in the camp? Shame, depression, discriminated feeling, worthless feeling, lost directions, all the physical and psychological pain etc. These Japanese-Americans had to work extreme extremely harder than their blond hair peers to only get food to survive. Dignity is not the word in their dictionary. They also had to fight hard against their past Japanese dude HARD to earn words like good job, well done by their boss. How about that? that's the torture to the human nature. True it may not mainly caused by American, but war did have direct extremely negative impact on them.

"Even though you don't care about politics, and you don't want to think
about it, I believe that in your heart you're very well aware that
China is planning to attack the United States."

I care, maybe not 13 years ago, thank for part of your help. This country is the place for people to care about the politics, no doubt in my mind and people like me, no matter where you are from, can change. Regarding if I am fully aware that China is planning to attack the United States, my understanding is that as long as a country, any country in the universe has a military buildup, it's against it's enemy. I am also fully aware that Chinese people, traditionally, treat western people including from USA much much better than treat themselves. This is general from top leader to civilian. A lot of Chinese will give their last piece of bread to you if that means they die and you survive. I am not kidding here.

"I don't blame you for not wanting to think about it, because you know that at some point you
and other Chinese-Americans are going to have to make a choice whether
to betray China or to betray the United States. I hope you find a way
to make the right choice."

So you are taking pleasure on other people's difficulty? You happened to be born in this nation, so? You were lucky because your grandparents or grand grandparents decided to live here. Will you laugh at your first generation ancestor? I am not happy with the words you chose but I understand you live in an angry world.

I have already made my choice the very first day. True, it is a hard choice if what you are predicting becomes reality. This country, United States, is a country respect human nature. I won't shame even at that time I will have complex feeling. People fight for you not because you force them to fight for you, is because you have something worth their fight.

Again, I am a man. take it easy.

Sincerely,
tx

[tx2]

"Thank you for your reply. Take it easy, the good thing is that you are dealing with a man, not a woman, I hope that make you feel a little better."
"Again, I am a man. take it easy."

I take these back. I apologize if my words offended female readers.
Now my posts will be three this year.
tx

[mannfm11]

Could it be that John can see what is going on and you are thin skinned? As broad as the US has been, it hasn't tried to claim the Gulf of Mexico or offshore Venezuela so it can own the minerals China is stepping on the Philipines, which is one hell of a long way from China. They are acting like a teen age kid with a fast car and a roll of bills in his pocket rather than grown people. They are territorially threating countries and people in all directions. Their Generals are making open threats. It would be one thing if this was some banana boat dictatorship, but it isn't. Instead it is a country that can pretty much destroy the enviroment of the entire world. I am sure China would get its licks in, but in such a fight it would a smoldering ruin. I think we would all be shocked what kind of technology the US has under wraps, like UFO's.

In any case, I don''t know why the US can't merely fire some kind o bug like was sent into Iran a few years ago back to the hackers? Then it might suddenly cause an outcry from the perpetrators and eliminate any doubt. I don't know much about computers, but I guess the back door idea is how they get in? Seems those wanting security might begin to figure out it might be worthwhile paying extra for some more secure hardware?