25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

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gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by gerald »

Tom Mazanec wrote:Risk analyzers on ebola peril to world:
http://psandman.com/col/Ebola-3.htm
Also in a earlier post I mentioned an increase in distrust of leaders and government --

from your above link

"And if our leaders don’t sound the alarm, somebody else will. People will start to find out or figure out that they have bigger Ebola problems than they faced in Dallas (and now face in New York). If our leaders aren't the ones who tell them, they will not trust our leaders to guide them through it."
-----------------------------------
Is this when the government becomes the enemy?
When trust is lost, it is difficult to regain.
NoOneImportant

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by NoOneImportant »

Prescient observation Gerald. And the morons never come to realize what their lies have wrought. They forever query: "... but why don't they believe us now, we're not lying this time...."

Lies corrode the very fabric of human interaction; what Obama, Holder, Clinton, et al have failed to realize. They lie repeatedly, bordering on continually, and are then stunned when they tell the truth, and are not believed.

What you describe is: when interacting with the established liar, who can tell what is a lie, and what is the truth? The only safe bet when dealing with the liar is to presume deceit, and discount everything that can't be immediately be verified, or to discount all that comes from them. It is the reason that up until the Obama regime economic statistical raw data was sacrosanct -- but no longer. As is the case with all Marxists, these people perceive the purpose of all human interaction is to distract, deceive, and to distort.

Again, a great observation.
gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by gerald »

NoOneImportant wrote:Prescient observation Gerald. And the morons never come to realize what their lies have wrought. They forever query: "... but why don't they believe us now, we're not lying this time...."

Lies corrode the very fabric of human interaction; what Obama, Holder, Clinton, et al have failed to realize. They lie repeatedly, bordering on continually, and are then stunned when they tell the truth, and are not believed.

What you describe is: when interacting with the established liar, who can tell what is a lie, and what is the truth? The only safe bet when dealing with the liar is to presume deceit, and discount everything that can't be immediately be verified, or to discount all that comes from them. It is the reason that up until the Obama regime economic statistical raw data was sacrosanct -- but no longer. As is the case with all Marxists, these people perceive the purpose of all human interaction is to distract, deceive, and to distort.

Again, a great observation.
Thanks

Your comment is why I say "call a spade a spade" it prevents a lot of problems. --

cheers
gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by gerald »

zzazz wrote:
Then cite the oppressive governmental regulations and bureaucratic intrusion that impede the development of new pharmaceuticals, vaccines, and antibiotic drugs. Ask them if in their hearts they really believe that Obamacare, and the federal government is really going to develop a vaccine for Ebola?
It is quite wrong to blame Obamacare. For years the conservative position has been that poor people do not deserve healthcare and should be just left to die. That position was proved again in Texas when the first US Ebola case was sent home with a bottle of worthless pills. -----And now that cynical, some would say evil, philosophy has come back to bite everyone. Even the most unrepentant conservative on earth must now see that the policy of just letting sick poor people die in their hovels threatens to bring down civilization itself.

I've seen at least one theory where the Roman collapse was actually caused when smallpox entered the empire for the first time. Same with us---because the d****d conservatives would rather court disaster than pay a fair tax.

After 9/11, I advocated the we use the disaster to end air travel, because it spreads disease so rapidly. But we are too dinosaur to wise up. Even now when the danger is manifest the most our leaders think to do is check a few passengers at the border for temperatures.
things are complicated, however --

Obamacare -- The Supreme court -- The basic idea of the ruling was that ObamaCare was declared a tax http://obamacarefacts.com/supreme-court-obamacare.php
----------------
One of the basic principles of medicine -- “First, do no harm.” https://www.nwabr.org/sites/default/fil ... ciples.pdf Question , at what point does self preservation from the doctor's perspective come into play? or is a doctor a slave?
There have been various articles regarding doctors that have provided initial help in a auto accident, but as soon as the ambulance arrives the doctor leaves and gives no information about himself for fear of being sued. Self preservation? Or is that not allowed?
--------------------
http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... -workforce
Looming Retirements.-- The economic downturn of recent years has encouraged many professionals to stay in the workforce for financial reasons, but the additional stresses of the ACA will likely accelerate their exodus.

Younger physicians exhibit different attitudes toward their professional roles and responsibilities. A recent workforce survey described physicians over the age of 50 as more dedicated and hardworking and their younger counterparts as disillusioned, less dedicated, and not as hardworking.[23] If this survey accurately reflects the younger workforce, physician productivity will likely decrease with increased retirements. There is little hope of meeting expected demand if productivity and efficiency do not increase.[24]
------------------------------
Example of malpractice insurance ---In some New York regions, premiums for obstetricians/gynecologists reached $206,913 in 2011—an increase of 4% since 2004, whereas premiums for general surgeons reached $128,542—an increase of 64% since 2004. http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine. ... inue-climb medical costs high? wonder why. -- get rid of lawyers?
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Doctors -- just another government employee? Like the Department of Motor Vehicles?
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A fair tax? What is that? -- A person works and is forced to pay taxes to support one who does not work? A person takes a risk, invests time and material to hopefully build a successful business or develop an invention and when successful is highly taxed because he can "afford it", to support those who do nothing and demand more? --- why work? why develop anything? --- see Rome
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As for Rome, yes it was impacted buy a plague, however the government with it's elites ( administrators, tax collectors , regulations etc.) and those in the cities deemed needing free food ( a fleet of ships was needed to bring grain from Egypt to feed them ) lead to it's final collapse. -- It became so bad that the peasants who worked the land and were the backbone of the empire could not afford to have children because of taxes and inflation ( in 324 A.D. a gold solidus was worth 4,250 denarri, by 363 A.D.-39 years later - a gold solidus was worth 250,000 denarri ) which lead to the land become fallow. Many of those in the country side abandoned their farms because of taxes and regulations, others hoped the barbarians would give them relief from Rome's tyranny. from -- The Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph A. Tainter
-------------------------------
same old same old -- and Nature gives no compassion or sympathy and that includes humanity.
gerald
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by gerald »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-2 ... uarantined
from comment section

Whoa Dammit
Saw this posted in the Fox comments & thought it was worth copying it here:

Editor, Lewiston Morning Tribune: If I wish to import a horse into the United States from Liberia or any African country other than Morocco, the horse needs to undergo a 60 day quarantine period at a USDA approved quarantine facility prior to mingling with the general population of horses in this country. Africa has a disease called African Horse Sickness that does not exist in the US; this is the way we have kept it out of this country. African Horse Sickness does not cause disease in people, only horses; our government has determined that it would be devastating to the US horse industry if it were to come here.The United States (and virtually all other countries) require a myriad of tests and often quarantine prior to bringing in a foreign animal.I can't legally cross state lines in the United States with a horse or cow without a health certificate signed by a USDA accredited veterinarian stating that the animal has been inspected and found free of infectious disease. In most cases blood tests are also required. In fact I can't legally cross the Snake River and ride my horse in Washington without a health certificate and a negative blood test for Equine Infectious Anemia.I'm not complaining; the United States of America, the States of Idaho and Washington as well as the other 48 states take the health of our livestock very seriously, and we have a very good record at keeping foreign animal diseases out of our country. I am happy to do my part to maintain bio-security in our animal population.If I am a resident of Liberia incubating Ebola, to enter the United States all I need to do is present a valid visa, and lie when asked if I have been exposed to Ebola. Within hours (no quarantine required) I can be walking the streets of any city in the United States. I feel very fortunate to live in a country that values our animals so highly.David A. Rustebakke, DVM
Guest

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by Guest »

Today's Daily Mail: Research claims certain strains of Ebola can remain on surfaces for 50 days

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z3HPh3wPas

We are so screwed.
User avatar
Tom Mazanec
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Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by Tom Mazanec »

With African cases well up into five figures, why have the number of people who carry the virus out of the first three countries still in single digits, if you expect it to spread? This is getting me cautiously hopeful.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain
John
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Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by John »

Tom Mazanec wrote: > With African cases well up into five figures, why have the number
> of people who carry the virus out of the first three countries
> still in single digits, if you expect it to spread? This is
> getting me cautiously hopeful.
I've wondered the same thing, and whether I've been missing
something. So I went to the current WHO Ebola Situation
Report (dated October 25, 2014).
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/si ... eports/en/
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/1066 ... 14_eng.pdf

Here are the total numbers of infections and deaths:

Country / # infections / # deaths
Guinea / 1553 / 926
Liberia / 4665 / 2705
Sierra Leone / 3896 / 1281
Mali / 1 / 1
Nigeria / 20/ 8
Senegal / 1 / 0
Spain / 1 / 0
U.S. / 4 / 1
Total / 10141 / 4922

I seems strange that the only major cases are in the original
countries (Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone), and that the only cases
outside of Africa were in Spain and U.S. It doesn't make sense to me
that Ebola hasn't spread to other countries in Africa, and that there
haven't been individual cases in other countries in Europe or Asia or
Latin America.

I went back to the first situation report, dated Aug 29, 2014.
http://www.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665 ... p1_eng.pdf

If you take the total number of infections -- 3052 on Aug 29, and
10141 on Oct 25 -- and do a computation, then you get that the number
of infections doubles every 4.7 weeks, which is a little more than a
month.

If you apply this rate to the number of infections, you get 40K by Jan
1, 80K by Feb 1, 160K by Mar 1, and so forth. But can that doubling
rate be sustained?

Next, I've extracted the Ebola location maps from the two reports.

Here's the August 29, 2014, map:

Image

Here's the October 25, 2014, map:

Image

Comparing these two maps, you can see that most infections were in the
west, but they've apparently been moving eastward, apparently stopping
at the borders of Mali and Côte d'Ivoire. This is not credible.
These country borders are porous, and tribal boundaries do not
correspond to national boundaries.

We recently had the news story of the two year old infected baby who
was carried on a bus all the way from Liberia to the western border of
Mali almost to the eastern border, with multiple stops, including a
two-hour stop in Bamako. Other than the death of the 2 yo, we haven't
heard anything more about Ebola in Mali.

Ebola must have spread into these two countries without our being
aware of it. If this is true -- and I don't see how it could not be
true -- then there must be unreported cases in these countries.

If there are individual cases in the U.S. and Spain, then there must
be unreported individual cases in other countries. Cuba has sent
hundreds of medical professionals to West Africa, and China has
thousands of workers in the region, and these two countries would
cover up cases of Ebola if they occurred. But any other country with
citizens that travel back and forth are also possibilities.
NoOneImportant

Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by NoOneImportant »

The typical authoritarian, Marxist, thug, troll zzazz wrote:
It is quite wrong to blame Obamacare. For years the conservative position has been that poor people do not deserve healthcare and should be just left to die. That position was proved again in Texas when the first US Ebola case was sent home with a bottle of worthless pills. -----And now that cynical, some would say evil, philosophy has come back to bite everyone. Even the most unrepentant conservative on earth must now see that the policy of just letting sick poor people die in their hovels threatens to bring down civilization itself.

I've seen at least one theory where the Roman collapse was actually caused when smallpox entered the empire for the first time. Same with us---because the d****d conservatives would rather court disaster than pay a fair tax.

After 9/11, I advocated the we use the disaster to end air travel, because it spreads disease so rapidly. But we are too dinosaur to wise up. Even now when the danger is manifest the most our leaders think to do is check a few passengers at the border for temperatures.
Zzazz opens in typical DemocRat troll fashion; authoritarian; Marxist; thug by referencing Obamacare. His entire content is intended to distract, deceive, and distort. He doesn't bring his ideas to the marketplace of ideas where one is free to choose based upon merit, and the benefit of what is being sold... oh no, absolutely not, for he knows, as well he surely knows, that Marxism doesn't sell - Marxism is authoritarianism, Marxism is misery, Marxism is the road to the kamps, Marxism is brutal thuggery, and and most importantly history has proven time and again that Marxism is the expressway to mass murder. Zzazz's approach is to impress his views upon all -- no sense in disturbing us with any bothersome free choices. He knows, or rather he should know that there are only two ways to arbitrate any rare resource, and medical care is certainly a rare resource.

The first method of arbitrating any rare resource is with a price (free choice), the second is with a bureaucrat (authoritarian Marxism - no choice). And make no mistake the bureaucrat's purpose is not to tell you yes but rather is to eliminate demand for what may best be described as a limited resource - medical care. And eliminate that demand the bureaucrat does, virtually without appeal -- that's why the appellate panels in Obamacare are caustically referred as death panels. Like Marx zzazz deals in broad sweeping unsubstantiated generalities, generalities given without corroboration or substantiation.

Zzazz goes on to imply that those who favor free choice, in the form of a price for medical care, are inhuman monsters gleefully sentencing those with limited means to disease, suffering, and death. Implicitly he seeks to present his own grace, compassion, and magnanimity - he alone just cares so much, isn't he wonderful, for he shall legislate -- "poof" via dictate, via command -- the rare resource of medical care shall be expanded to meet all needs, and demands (simply because he commands it to be so). Reality has no bearing on anything. He is just so inspiring, unlike the heartless conservatives that he excoriates, and references. Only he can care enough about the poor, only he can care enough about the afflicted to steal all that you have to help them obtain whatever he alone perceives that they shall require at your expense -- and always with more to come in the future... he'll just have to let you know what it'll cost later; and be aware only the heartless squawk.

Zzazz then goes on to reference the Dallas Ebola Presbyterian event as corroboration for the heartlessness of conservatives. Zzazz omits the fact, one is left to presume through deceit, that Duncan (the Ebola patient) made no reference during his first hospital visit of having recently arrived in Dallas from Liberia. Zzazz, through simple deceit, seeks to leave the impression that a competent medical facility, when presented with a patient with a communicable disease with a 70% mortality rate, for which there is no known medical remedy, consciously, through malice, knowingly sent that patient home with useless antibiotics so that he might spread a virulent communicable disease into the general community. Although I can't be certain I must presume that Duncan, as a recent arrival in Dallas, was uninsured, and received treatment at Presbyterian gratis -- free. Duncan would have been treated initially in response the the prevailing Marxist philosophy, here espoused by zzazz, that payment just isn't important, it is only demanded and received by the evil, by the vicious, by the monster, it (payment) in reality doesn't matter.

Zzazz makes no mention of giving what he has, only what you have. There is, glossed over in his missive, no mention of the meaning of compassion, he leaves that open; implicitly he indicts each of us for our past human shortcomings. He implies your defect, a defect that he is more than willing to rectify, and remedy, with your wallet... He sees each circumstance through the glasses of a simpleton: "... isn't that pathetic, somebody should help that guy, I am going to help that guy, gimme your wallet, I am going to help that guy...." He makes no mention of just what compassion is. It is of more than just of passing interest what compassion entails, for it is the very basis of the moral indictment that he makes, and implies.

A brief examination of compassion reveals that compassion is what you willingly do with your money, compassion is what you do with your property, compassion is what you do with your time -- in short compassion is what you do with your resources, with your assets, compassion is charity, compassion is volunteering, compassion is serving those in need. Strange, but not unusual, for authoritarian thugs to omit this point. For it takes no compassion for someone like the millions of zzazzs to steal what you have, as zzazz seeks to administratively do, and give it away. He seeks the savings that you have accrued through honest toil, so that he may give your proceeds, your assets -- not his -- to someone who neither deserves, nor has earned it.

Zzazz is much like the street mugger. He believes that he deserves what is yours more than you; he believes that he may better determine how to use your money than you. The fact that is disturbing to him is that should he use a pistol on the street corner to extract from you what he desires he will quickly be imprisoned. He quickly determines, via Marxism, that to gain access to what you have accrued though honest gainful employment, he may use the cudgel of government, thus he is willing to use up to, and including, mortal force to coerce you into coughing up just exactly what HE believes you should pay even though it is what you, not he, have earned. He believes that there is nothing beyond his reach should he garner a voting majority -- his thinking is the Great Leap Backwards 250 years as it differs in no material manner from the Divine Right of Kings, where there is in fact no private property, as virtually nothing is beyond his reach. Further, he will adjust what he extracts from you, at random, as the future mood strikes him, and as other "worthy ideas" arise -- for he is completely unaware that there is no end to the continuing stream of "worthy ideas", only an end to your ability to pay for his callous simplicity, and guilty conscience.

Finally in his post zzazz gives us the coup de grace... he lets us know just exactly where he is leading us. He presumes to tell us just exactly what we may, or may not be permitted to do. He doesn't like flying... so nope, no flying for us, in traditional Marxist style. But it's only for your own good, mind you... you'll just love living in the 13th century. Had this, or a similar action been taken during the horrible Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918 we would certainly not live in the world we now enjoy. There will be other Ebolas, large numbers of people will die, to regress to the caveman as the "solution" is the mark of idiocy, and serves no one.

Perhaps it bears mentioning that there were no more committed Marxists in their past than David Horowitz, and Thomas Sowell, so perhaps there is hope for zzazz.
John
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Re: 25-Oct-14 World View -- 2yo baby in Mali dies of Ebola

Post by John »

WHO claims that the trend of new infections is slowing in Liberia.
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